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Old 09-28-2016, 18:39   #1
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my new bear protection...

A year or so, Australia got their knickers in a knot about Adler lever action shotguns. Canada is a little less sensitive about shotgun than Australia is, so we've started getting these on our shores. I picked one up for a bush gun, since it's a nice, compact little 12ga. at 13" barrel length. It's a Turkish made gun, very good fit & finish, well put together gun. A beautiful piece of Turkish walnut for the stock, it is a classy looking shooter too.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5709/2...a7273db8_c.jpg

I've had it for a couple of weeks, put about 350 rounds through it, and I've been VERY pleased with it. ZERO problems, despite running every type of round I can buy locally (about 15). It feeds & ejects everything I've tried so far. It's a fast pointing gun; it reminds me of a model 92 Winchester the way it comes to the shoulder; it's WAAY more like a lever gun than a pump gun in that respect. It comes with a ventilated recoil pad mounted; a bit stiff right now, but then the felt recoil is much better than expected too

OAL around 34 inches, about 7 pounds, 4+1 capacity. I live in an area with a lot of bears, cougar, coyote & wolf & it's going to be my bush gun. I work search & rescue, so I'm in need of something nice & short, with a bit of capacity and a good bit of "thump" to address any wildlife encounters.
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Old 09-29-2016, 15:23   #2
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Maybe load the last round with a slug before you go on walkabout mate.
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Old 09-29-2016, 15:52   #3
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For bear country, they'll ALL be slugs, for sure.
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Old 09-29-2016, 16:27   #4
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Yup, all slugs. Just be careful to not get near bear scat. It might contain too much pepper spray.
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Old 09-29-2016, 16:29   #5
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or all those bells tinkling away if you kick it by accident...
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Old 09-30-2016, 15:09   #6
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Originally Posted by YYCADM View Post
A year or so, Australia got their knickers in a knot about Adler lever action shotguns. Canada is a little less sensitive about shotgun than Australia is, so we've started getting these on our shores. I picked one up for a bush gun, since it's a nice, compact little 12ga. at 13" barrel length. It's a Turkish made gun, very good fit & finish, well put together gun. A beautiful piece of Turkish walnut for the stock, it is a classy looking shooter too.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5709/2...a7273db8_c.jpg

I've had it for a couple of weeks, put about 350 rounds through it, and I've been VERY pleased with it. ZERO problems, despite running every type of round I can buy locally (about 15). It feeds & ejects everything I've tried so far. It's a fast pointing gun; it reminds me of a model 92 Winchester the way it comes to the shoulder; it's WAAY more like a lever gun than a pump gun in that respect. It comes with a ventilated recoil pad mounted; a bit stiff right now, but then the felt recoil is much better than expected too

OAL around 34 inches, about 7 pounds, 4+1 capacity. I live in an area with a lot of bears, cougar, coyote & wolf & it's going to be my bush gun. I work search & rescue, so I'm in need of something nice & short, with a bit of capacity and a good bit of "thump" to address any wildlife encounters.
Against a REAL bear you are going to want a whole lot more shells (slugs) in your gun than that.
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Old 09-30-2016, 16:25   #7
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Against a real bear, if you can't get the job done with one, maybe two slugs, you won't be alive long enough to need many more
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Old 09-30-2016, 16:39   #8
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I would tend to agree but have to experience on which to base my opinion. But I would rather be loaded for bear than otherwise.
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Old 10-05-2016, 18:31   #9
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I know more than one mountain man kept a coach gun handy, both barrels point blank of 00 buck right in their face, side step the crashing bear, and get out your skinning knife.
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Old 10-05-2016, 21:00   #10
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My first impulse would be to say "they're braver men than I"...but then that would imply that bravery is predicated on having a death wish, which I don't have.

In all my 40 plus years of hunting the eastern Rocky mountains, and 60 + years living with other family members who hunted, I've taken a good number of bears (14) with all but two of them being taken with a shotgun/ slugs. I've had the misfortune/incredible good luck (both at the same time) of being the focus of a serious charge by a bear and putting it down in self defence.

The incredible good luck was that I hit him at all; I did not, in my wildest dreams, ever imagine an animal that big could move that fast. From the time the charge began with the bear between 55 and 65 feet away until he was less than 15 feet away (where I shot him), I had "just" enough time to swing my gun from a "port arms" position to straight ahead of me; I did not have enough time to shoulder it & fired with the stock only partway to my shoulder. I had a round in the tube & the safety off; we knew he was there, just couldn't see where he was. If I'd had to load a round, or even flick the safety off, I don't think I'd have had enough time.

My round hit the animal in the throat, midway between his jaw and the first ribs. It had enough energy to break it's spine & disconnect his CNS, but didn't exit; I wouldn't have stopped him any other way. I have absolutely NO doubt that ANYTHING other than a slug would have penetrated far enough. Certainly not buckshot, & probably not a softer composition slug than the Brenneke that did the job. That I hit him at all was a miracle; I fired pretty instinctively without aiming & it was way too close for shot to even begin to pattern.

This wasn't a "huge" bear...he was a decent sized, mature black just over 300 pounds (the Conservation people took the bear after I shot it, weighed & measured it; I had to report it as a defensive shooting). If it had been a bigger black bear, or a mature Grizzly with a couple hundred pounds more weight, I don't know if I'd have been on the winning side. I was shocked by the relatively shallow penetration. Even though their necks are heavily muscled, the middle of the throat really isn't, and it went through both esophagus & windpipe, so nearly 4 inches of "air space" and still only attained 15 inches of penetration at 12 feet (they estimated the distance).

I've always carried a few rounds of buckshot, mostly in case of a cougar, wolf or coyote. I know it'll put any of those on the ground. A bear? I think I'd sooner throw the shotgun at him than try and take one down with buckshot. My experience tells me that's just plain a bad idea.
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Old 10-05-2016, 22:28   #11
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Originally Posted by YYCADM View Post
My first impulse would be to say "they're braver men than I"...but then that would imply that bravery is predicated on having a death wish, which I don't have.

In all my 40 plus years of hunting the eastern Rocky mountains, and 60 + years living with other family members who hunted, I've taken a good number of bears (14) with all but two of them being taken with a shotgun/ slugs. I've had the misfortune/incredible good luck (both at the same time) of being the focus of a serious charge by a bear and putting it down in self defence.

The incredible good luck was that I hit him at all; I did not, in my wildest dreams, ever imagine an animal that big could move that fast. From the time the charge began with the bear between 55 and 65 feet away until he was less than 15 feet away (where I shot him), I had "just" enough time to swing my gun from a "port arms" position to straight ahead of me; I did not have enough time to shoulder it & fired with the stock only partway to my shoulder. I had a round in the tube & the safety off; we knew he was there, just couldn't see where he was. If I'd had to load a round, or even flick the safety off, I don't think I'd have had enough time.

My round hit the animal in the throat, midway between his jaw and the first ribs. It had enough energy to break it's spine & disconnect his CNS, but didn't exit; I wouldn't have stopped him any other way. I have absolutely NO doubt that ANYTHING other than a slug would have penetrated far enough. Certainly not buckshot, & probably not a softer composition slug than the Brenneke that did the job. That I hit him at all was a miracle; I fired pretty instinctively without aiming & it was way too close for shot to even begin to pattern.

This wasn't a "huge" bear...he was a decent sized, mature black just over 300 pounds (the Conservation people took the bear after I shot it, weighed & measured it; I had to report it as a defensive shooting). If it had been a bigger black bear, or a mature Grizzly with a couple hundred pounds more weight, I don't know if I'd have been on the winning side. I was shocked by the relatively shallow penetration. Even though their necks are heavily muscled, the middle of the throat really isn't, and it went through both esophagus & windpipe, so nearly 4 inches of "air space" and still only attained 15 inches of penetration at 12 feet (they estimated the distance).

I've always carried a few rounds of buckshot, mostly in case of a cougar, wolf or coyote. I know it'll put any of those on the ground. A bear? I think I'd sooner throw the shotgun at him than try and take one down with buckshot. My experience tells me that's just plain a bad idea.
Great story. You're lucky to be here. We're lucky to be reading your story.

Thanks.
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Old 10-25-2016, 17:45   #12
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I like bears, I also respect them. To me every bear is MISTER BEAR, black, or Brownie (or white) they apex predators. Polar bears are particularly dangerous, they are not used to humans and they eat everything they can catch.
In 1995 I got a Brownie permit for AK. I selected a 45/70 with a backbreaking (my back) load for penetration. Went out and bought a Marlin Guide Gun type and got a 45/70 barrel for my H&R combination. Also bought a rifled barrel for my 870 with sights, to that I added my .45 Colt revolver and some pretty fearsome loads. I think it is called "loaded for bear".
When we got to our island my two partners went to setting up camp and myself and the guide went out on a preliminary scouting expedition. I took the H&R 45/70 single just in case. We hadn't walked 15 minutes when an absolutely huge bear stood up about 30 feet in front of us, he was just looking around to see who had come knocking. It wasn't till I heard the guide snick off the safety on his 416 Rigby that I remembered why we were there. I fired as the bear and I looked at each other, he went over backwards and thrashed around a little. It seemed that I had made a perfect heart shot, with a $35 rifle!
The bear measured out at near record, and now occupies a position of honor in my den. I have not hunted bear since, they are just too magnificent an animal to be harvested just for me(no problem with anyone else's taste).
I still go in bear country and have seen 2 charges. It happens so fast it is a wonder anyone survives one. You have possibly half a ton of muscle and seemingly solid ivory teeth moving at up to 35 mph, humping and swaying all over the place. I killed my bear, I did not stop him. Stopping a charging bear involves only one thing, shutting down his CNS. This means through the brain pan which is like armor, or a spinal shot which is not only protected by hugs slabs of fat and muscle, but is moving all over the place.
Getting to either one requires massive penetration with a projectile that will impart sufficient impact to shut down his CNS.
On one of the charges mentioned (at someone else thankfully) I took a side shoulder shot with a Ruger #1 .458 Magnum. It penetrated and caused the bear to stumble and slow down giving the subject of the charge time to unload with a 416 Rigby, work the bolt and do it again. The bear slid to a stop less than 3 feet from him and still tried to get a swipe in with his undamaged side paw, just missing my friend by millimeters.
We both then put in anchor shots and MISTER BEAR lost again-but not by much.
I won't ever take another bear, but I will always be loaded for MISTER BEAR whenever I am in the country where he might be.
I have heard of bear taken with a 30-30 and even lesser rounds, but I want penetration, penetration and then some more penetration.
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Old 10-25-2016, 19:10   #13
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I hope you don't misunderstand; I like them too, and am in awe of the raw power they posess. Of the bear I've taken in my lifetime, two were for meat; one for myself ( and I did not care for it, nor have I every time I've eaten it since) and another for a dear friend who did enjoy bear meat, but could no longer hunt.

The remainder were cull bears or problem animals taking livestock or habituating in occupied areas and posing a danger.
Your comments about the speed at which they move WAS a message I was trying to impart, though. As you point out, unless you flip the swith to their CNS, they are tough to stop, or even slow down. I know in the case of my charge, had I not hit the spine, I would not have survived.

I know many (most) people swear by the 45/70 for bear, and I know they do the job; it's simply not a round that I get along with very well. Not for lack of trying; I had the prettiest 45/70 for a couple years that I shot a lot, trying to get her to lust after me the way I lusted after her. It wasn't meant to be though; something about the way that round recoils for me just did not work. I don't think its much different than a 12ga slug, but I developed a recoil flinch by about the third round I fired, and 5 or 6 hundred rounds later, it was just as bad as it was at the start.

I stuck with the 12ga and hard cast slugs because I knew from experience they work as well as anything does, and I've never flinched from it...well, not a hundred percent true; I've never seen anyone NOT flinch shooting Brenneke's..those things HURT! I've always been able to get back on target & able to make a second shot with it, something I never accomplished with the 45/70. I wish I could though; that Marlin Guide Gun is such a purdy rifle..
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Old 11-28-2017, 16:22   #14
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In America you can get this! Mossberg Shockwave!
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