Shooting Sports Forum

Shooting Sports Forum (http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/index.php)
-   Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 (http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=86)
-   -   Ultimak Rail Report and Pics (http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=73707)

Carbine85 10-17-2009 17:42

Ultimak Rail Report and Pics **UPDATED 11.7.09**
 
4 Attachment(s)
I thought I would start a new thread on my Ultimak Rail experience.
The 1st problem I found is that the accuracy fall off to MO Barn Door.
The 2nd was that the rifle malfunctioned every 2 or 3 rounds. The bolt wouldn't go home and lock into battery.
The problem I found was the operating slide wasn't clearing the strap where the rail clamps to the barrel. I could actually feel and see the operating rod move as it hit the strap. I fixed this by dremeling a radius on the strap. I also cleaned up and removed a very small amount of material from the operating rod.
Attachment 17219
Attachment 17220

I also noticed that the Ultimak Rail is easily installed canted in one direction or the other. I leveled the rifle (without stock) and adjustd the rail until it was level to the receiver. The canted rail also caused clearance problems.
I fired around 100 rounds today. Every 10 rounds or so I would get a FTF or the bolt didn't go into battery. This time I found the area in front of the bolt lug on the charging handle was hitting the back of the Ultimak Rail. What was happening here is I removed material from the strap creating clearance this allowed the operating rod to fall back into the correct place and hit the rail.
Attachment 17210
Attachment 17211
I removed the rail and removed some material from the back area of the rail, smoothed it out with a small radius on the edge and made a small radius on the operating rod.
Attachment 17214
Attachment 17215
When I removed the rail I noticed that the strap bolts needed to be tightend again, this time with lock-tite.
The rail got pretty warm after 20 rounds and down right hot after 50 or so.
I would guess that you couldn't grab it after 100 rounds in a short period of time.
So far I'm not impressed. I think the "tacticool" look is better then it's actual performance and function. I'm not sure this belongs on a serious SHTF rifle. I'll know more next week when I can check it out again and spend some time sighting it in.

Mabes 10-17-2009 21:07

What series Mini-14 are you shooting?
 
Your experience is uncharacteristic for an Ultimak, for sure.

Ontos 10-17-2009 21:28

Are you sure you're installing it correctly?

The Ultimak attaches to the gas block, so I fail to see how you can induce cant if it's locked down.

GunTech 10-17-2009 21:31

Indeed. I just received my new ultimak for the 580x series, bolted it on and there is no interference of any kind. The rifle is still shooting approx 2 MOA with 64gn Winchester ammo.

I did carefully follow the installation instructions and there is about a matchbook cover's clearance on both sides of the stock between the stock and rail. All screws were torqued properly. All I need now is a low Aimpoint mount to bring the sight down lower.

Carbine85 10-18-2009 05:28

There isn't anyway to incorrectly install the rail. It fits directly over the barrel, 4 screws for the gas block, gap correctly and tighten down. It's easy to cant the rail. All you have to do is turn it in one direction or the other and it's canted. It doesn't line itself up. If the rail is canted to the left it will put the strap in the way of the operating rod.
The clearance problems are resloved, however the heat problem isn't.
All things considered, having your handguard getting to hot to touch can't be good.

Carbine85 10-18-2009 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ontos (Post 578200)
Are you sure you're installing it correctly?

The Ultimak attaches to the gas block, so I fail to see how you can induce cant if it's locked down.

When everything is loose you can install the rail with the gas block turned in 1 direction or the other. I leveled the gun out of the stock by putting the level on the receiver in front of the rear sight. I then put the level on th rail and found that it was canted and can be in either direction by a notiable amount.

Carbine85 10-18-2009 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunTech (Post 578202)
Indeed. I just received my new ultimak for the 580x series, bolted it on and there is no interference of any kind. The rifle is still shooting approx 2 MOA with 64gn Winchester ammo.

I did carefully follow the installation instructions and there is about a matchbook cover's clearance on both sides of the stock between the stock and rail. All screws were torqued properly. All I need now is a low Aimpoint mount to bring the sight down lower.

I'm guessing the clearance will very from one Mini to another. My rod had some extra material on it that hit the strap. This was easy to remedy. A different rod may not have the problem. Once it cleared the strap it would hit the back of the rail cover.

45K20E4 10-18-2009 12:31

For those that haven't taken their gas block off. It is not a machined fit around the gas bushing. There is a certain amount of play that allows the gas block itself to be canted left or right. It's not a lot, but it's enough that it will allow the rail to interfere with the op rod. I learned this the first time I put mine on. The second time was fine.

In my case the op rod had no clearance issues with the barrel mounting strap. I did some temp testing with mine a while back. In a quick-but aimed sustained fire it got up to 120-ish degrees. I used red Loc-tite on my mounting hardware and haven't had any issues as yet.

STALIN 10-18-2009 14:08

carbine what model is your mini 180...580...?

Carbine85 10-18-2009 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by STALIN (Post 578348)
carbine what model is your mini 180...580...?

183 Stainless

pdog 10-18-2009 19:03

Hum, I have a 196 and love mine, wouldn't remove it for anything.

GunTech 10-18-2009 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbine85 (Post 578356)
183 Stainless

Interesting. Mine is a 581 and shoots like a dream. I've owned 5 18x series minis and none of them would shoot worth a darn. I finally decided to try one more time, because I love the M14 and the concept of the mini. I picked up a 16" tactical and today we were blasting cans at 100 yards no problem.


Have you tried an accu-strut?

Also, did you try and talk to Ultimak?

Carbine85 10-19-2009 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunTech (Post 578411)
Interesting. Mine is a 581 and shoots like a dream. I've owned 5 18x series minis and none of them would shoot worth a darn. I finally decided to try one more time, because I love the M14 and the concept of the mini. I picked up a 16" tactical and today we were blasting cans at 100 yards no problem.


Have you tried an accu-strut?

Also, did you try and talk to Ultimak?

I'm pretty sure the functioning issue is squared away. I haven't checked for accuracy again.
The rifle was capable of 2-3" MOA before and without a strut so it should be capable now. I'm guessing that the slide slamming into rail was causing accuracy problems.

Carbine85 11-07-2009 12:15

2 Attachment(s)
I have the functioning issues worked out. The Ultimak Rail was the cause of for the rifle to FTF, not cycle properly, and the bolt not going into battery.
Attachment 17353
You can see the white spot where the slide still nicks the notch in the rail.
Attachment 17352
I installed the rail covers to help with the heat problem. This rail gets very hot. I consider the heat to be unacceptable. After 100 rounds over 1 hour or so it is to hot to wrap your hand around. It simply doesn't allow the hot gases to vent properly. After 150 rounds the heat gets up into the scope mount.
As far as accuracy goes the rifle just isn't as good as it used to be. It's better but not good. It has to be the rail or reduced sized gas port. I was able to hit 8" steel plates at 200 yards.
I'm still looking for a good deal on the Amega Ranges Rail and then I can do a comparision.

GuapOh 11-09-2009 20:18

I hope mine which is installed on my 581 does not experience any of these problems. Recently ordered Eotech 512 with the quick release zero holding mounting system. Hopefully this will be a good combo for my gun.

STALIN 11-09-2009 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuapOh (Post 584353)
I hope mine which is installed on my 581 does not experience any of these problems. Recently ordered Eotech 512 with the quick release zero holding mounting system. Hopefully this will be a good combo for my gun.

pics when you get it.

Carbine85 11-10-2009 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuapOh (Post 584353)
I hope mine which is installed on my 581 does not experience any of these problems. Recently ordered Eotech 512 with the quick release zero holding mounting system. Hopefully this will be a good combo for my gun.

Actually if you take your time and use a level you probably won't have a problem. I could have refit this the first time around if I tested more and looked closer.
The heat will still be a problem.

GuapOh 11-10-2009 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbine85 (Post 584391)
Actually if you take your time and use a level you probably won't have a problem. I could have refit this the first time around if I tested more and looked closer.
The heat will still be a problem.

Well, I did not use a level when I installed the Ultimak but it seemed to be fool prove and straight forward. The instructions were clear and the quality of the rail and associated parts was very high. The rifle really looks much better with this installed. The gun's action seems uneffected but I have not shot with it yet.

Carbine85 11-10-2009 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuapOh (Post 584414)
Well, I did not use a level when I installed the Ultimak but it seemed to be fool prove and straight forward. The instructions were clear and the quality of the rail and associated parts was very high. The rifle really looks much better with this installed. The gun's action seems uneffected but I have not shot with it yet.

It's not self leveling and easily canted in one direction or another. I would check it with a level.

LittleBill 05-21-2011 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ontos (Post 578200)
Are you sure you're installing it correctly?

The Ultimak attaches to the gas block, so I fail to see how you can induce cant if it's locked down.

I did the same thing because I installed the Ultimak without carefully reading the instructions.

They tell you to install the rear strap loosely but don't tighten the screws; then after you've tightened the screws holding the rail to the gas block, tighten the strap screws.

If you tighten the strap screws first, you can end up with a slight cant to the rail. I know: I did it.

Didn't impede functioning, I shot it that way for several months without noticing anything. It was only when I installed a Scout Scope in Leupold see-thru high mounts that I noticed that the scope was canted in relation to my iron sights.

I have Ultimaks on two Minis (188 series and 581 series) and didn't experience any problems. I like 'em a lot.

usmcronin 05-22-2011 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuapOh (Post 584353)
I hope mine which is installed on my 581 does not experience any of these problems. Recently ordered Eotech 512 with the quick release zero holding mounting system. Hopefully this will be a good combo for my gun.

The ultimaks are pretty well known as furnaces, try one on an AK :). Eotechs do not handle the heat well. You might have issues. Infact anything plastic will have issues.

Wear gloves and use an aimpoint

tri70 05-22-2011 06:15

I have an Amega Ranges rail on my mini 14 and have fired 20 rounds thru it pinking, the barrel is hot but the rail stays warm and easy to handle. I don't know if that differs from a mini 30 but I have not had my mini 14 with the rail too hot to hold, the barrel yes, rail no.

kwg020 05-22-2011 08:16

The rails are going to act like a heat sink and is going to draw the heat from the barrel. I'm sure it's going to get hot. The faster and more you shoot, the faster and hotter it gets. Pure physics. I'd still like to have one someday. kwg

usmcronin 05-22-2011 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by tri70 (Post 659080)
I have an Amega Ranges rail on my mini 14 and have fired 20 rounds thru it pinking, the barrel is hot but the rail stays warm and easy to handle. I don't know if that differs from a mini 30 but I have not had my mini 14 with the rail too hot to hold, the barrel yes, rail no.

I mean 2-500 round training evolutions. But I have also melted recoil buffers... and I dont bump fire or spray and pray.

Crowcifier666 05-24-2011 03:36

Anyone looking to sell their Ultimak? I've got a Burris scout dying to go on my 580 tactical.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:45.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All information is copyright by Perfectunion.com unless already under copyright.