AR vs Mini - Shooting Sports Forum


Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 family of rifles

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Old 05-05-2007, 18:48   #1
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AR vs Mini

I hear over & over again, how stock ARs are so much more accurate than a stock Mini. Well, I just came across a thread on another forum, where AR owners don't brag so much on their ARs, when it's just between themselves.

http://www.berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=22905

A few cuts from this thread:

"Most of my 100 yd groups are 3" and more."

"I kind of wonder if I could keep 25 inch groups at 100 yards."

"shooting a 2.5" group with an unmodified AR, is good for anybody."

" If your goal is consistent 1" or less groups, you ought to be looking at Browning A-bolt, Savage Tactical, or Remington 700."

So, as I see it, as a general rule, a stock lower cost AR is not so much better than a stock Mini.
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Old 05-05-2007, 19:10   #2
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I'll say from my personal use and what I've seen...accuracy is noticably better in even lower end ARs than minis. Aside from design, for the most part it comes down to the barrel. It's not hard for anyone to cheaper produce a barrel that's twice as good as the skinny ruger barrel.

I used to shoot groups with both the mini-14 and AR and the accuracy of the AR really starts to show up in longer ranges. An AR barrel will hold groups much better than a mini barrel while getting hot (real life use).

Have you ever owned an AR? Don't listen to a bunch of people on forums. Try one out for yourself before making conclusions. I love mini-14s, but and AR and mini are two different things. I don't think you'll find too many people with experience with both firearms to say accuracy between a stock AR and stock mini are comparable.
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Old 05-05-2007, 19:30   #3
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Originally Posted by V-Max View Post
Have you ever owned an AR?
No, but hopefully I will one day.
I have to admit, I was surprised to read ARs owners posting not so favorable comments.
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Old 05-05-2007, 19:39   #4
 
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Originally Posted by sticks View Post
"I kind of wonder if I could keep 25 inch groups at 100 yards."
I think he was talking about 2.5" and not 25" groups. Btw even moderately priced AR`s are capable of MOA accuracy with the right ammo if the shooter does his part.
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Old 05-05-2007, 19:54   #5
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Originally Posted by BigOleSwingin` View Post
I think he was talking about 2.5" and not 25" groups.
I believe you're correct; that 25" comment did have me wondering.
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Old 05-05-2007, 20:34   #6
 
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Originally Posted by sticks View Post
I believe you're correct; that 25" comment did have me wondering.
Hey 25" would be a shotgun pattern and not a group
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Old 05-06-2007, 00:07   #7
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Originally Posted by sticks View Post
No, but hopefully I will one day.
I have to admit, I was surprised to read ARs owners posting not so favorable comments.

I used to think AR owners were all talk until I bought one. I love mine. Of course you are going to read a few negative comments here and there, but the majority of AR owners are more than happy with them. My advice would be to get an AR or three while you still can. My mini is fun to shoot and to look at, but my AR is always my first choice.

If you're just plinking don't let people on the internet comparing groups bother you. I think a lot of this ruins the mini 14 for some people. You pull the trigger and it goes bang. You add a reliable high-cap and you can make a big mess and a lot of noise. Isn't that what recreational shooting should be?
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Old 05-06-2007, 03:07   #8
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Just did this one in the AR section:
http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=57453
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Old 05-06-2007, 05:56   #9
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A buddys Mini-14 will shoot very well, the factory synthetic stock model. My M-30 not so well, I have done some accuracy mods listed here and shrank groups down to 2.5" at 100 yds, some better on really good day.
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Old 05-06-2007, 08:09   #10
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There both good rifles, I just prefer the looks of the mini over the AR. The AR are more accurate out of the box and you can dress them 100 different ways. I'm more of the simple type with hi cap mags!
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Old 05-06-2007, 09:41   #11
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I had a Colt AR Green Label HBar for a brief period of time. Never shot it.

I know they are really accurate as I shot a friend of mine's Colt.

I had just bought it, brought it home and was field stripping it in order to get familiarized with it.

Almost immediately, I saw some tiny little part fall out of it and into the carpet. I never could find it in the carpet. I don't know what it was, but, that was enough for me.

I packed it back up and traded it in for a Galil. I have had 4 Galils and no little pieces have ever fallen out of them.

At the time, I just couldn't conceive of keeping an assault rifle that was capable of having a little tiny piece that would fall out during a field strip.




In retrospect, I should have been more patient, less reactive and given the rifle more of a chance.
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Old 05-06-2007, 10:36   #12
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"Assault rifle"

Originally Posted by Oswald2001 View Post
I had a Colt AR Green Label HBar for a brief period of time. Never shot it.

I know they are really accurate as I shot a friend of mine's Colt.

I had just bought it, brought it home and was field stripping it in order to get familiarized with it.

Almost immediately, I saw some tiny little part fall out of it and into the carpet. I never could find it in the carpet. I don't know what it was, but, that was enough for me.

I packed it back up and traded it in for a Galil. I have had 4 Galils and no little pieces have ever fallen out of them.

At the time, I just couldn't conceive of keeping an assault rifle that was capable of having a little tiny piece that would fall out during a field strip.




In retrospect, I should have been more patient, less reactive and given the rifle more of a chance.
FYI- This is not a flame on anyone but Please do not use the term "ASSAULT RIFLE" an AR15 or dressed up civilian Mini is not an assault weapon plane and simple.
It's not full auto or 3 round burst capable. The anti 2nd Amendment sheeple love to use that term for all semi-auto weapons to scare the uninformed public into more gun control.

The use of the word "ASSAULT RIFLE" hurts all of us in the long run unless you do have the real deal.

I’m done
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Old 05-06-2007, 12:22   #13
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I have shot both a freinds bushmaster and my mini and honestly shooting bout 100 yrds standing and taking shots not on a rest or bench i havnt noticed to much a difrence i like both guns.
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Old 05-06-2007, 15:51   #14
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I just don't get the 1 MOA folks. But then, I'm not a benchrest shooter.

I'm more than happy when I shoot consistant 4 MOA groups. That's a 1" square at 25 yards. And not all hunkered down at a bench on sandbags. In my opinion, it's more about the shooter than it is about the rifle (within reason).

Try taking Fred's AQT sometime, it's a real eye-opener.

http://http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/catalog/acc.asp

Whatever you shoot, get out there and practice!
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Old 05-06-2007, 19:02   #15
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Originally Posted by CRAZY8 View Post
FYI- This is not a flame on anyone but Please do not use the term "ASSAULT RIFLE" an AR15 or dressed up civilian Mini is not an assault weapon plane and simple.
It's not full auto or 3 round burst capable. The anti 2nd Amendment sheeple love to use that term for all semi-auto weapons to scare the uninformed public into more gun control.

The use of the word "ASSAULT RIFLE" hurts all of us in the long run unless you do have the real deal.

I’m done
Isn't it amazing how times change. At home I have a 1982 copy of a Guns and Ammo special issue with the bold title "Assault Rifles" in huge letters. It's one of my favourites and I go back to it often. They're all in there including our beloved mini and all repeatedly called assault rifles. I know, I know, "asault rifle" is a technical term with a specific meaning but sometimes I long for the good ol days when we didn't have to worry so much about "offending " people. (Oh no, I just turned into a geezer )
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Old 05-07-2007, 01:12   #16
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I have both and like them both for different reasons. Here's a quick breakdown.

Mini-14 Pros:
Better Gas Design
Less parts to Break

AR-15 Pros:
Mags n Parts EVERYWHERE
More Accurate than Mini

Mini-14 Cons:
VERY tough to get a spare bolt/firing pin
Less Accurate than AR-15
Get pricey factory mags or don't even bother

AR-15 Cons:
Can be picky with ammo
Requires a bit more maint.
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Old 05-10-2007, 19:22   #17
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Angry "asault rifle" is a technical term

Originally Posted by nzmini View Post
Isn't it amazing how times change. At home I have a 1982 copy of a Guns and Ammo special issue with the bold title "Assault Rifles" in huge letters. It's one of my favourites and I go back to it often. They're all in there including our beloved mini and all repeatedly called assault rifles. I know, I know, "asault rifle" is a technical term with a specific meaning but sometimes I long for the good ol days when we didn't have to worry so much about "offending " people. (Oh no, I just turned into a geezer )
Ok, I am an older Geezer,

I guess Guns and Ammo back in the 80’s was less PC or informed than the local rag or gun mag today in 2007.
Things are not so funny now in today’s atmosphere and the Ruger mini that you love soooo much and all other Semi-Autos is ‘well’ anyone’s guess when that will be put in the grinder if you give it up.

Will you give your tool to the government, PLEASE TELL ME NOW SIR?

After the 2006 elections, the folks that know best for us are pushing an “Assault weapons” BAN agenda through the Senate and Congress do you hear me, is your mini an Assault weapon NOW. Are you ready to give up your Mini or semi auto anything to the government? Hmmmmm. Sounds like you were picking on a Geezer for fun to me.

Will Gun’s and Ammo from 1982 protect you from the enlightened ones in Washington DC in 2007? ‘NO’ unless you are, stupid enough too feel good about G&A from the 80’s. My man you are picking on the wrong geezer hear. Worry about 2007 today and stop living in the past.

Is your tool an Assault weapon or a Constitutional right to Bear Arms to protect family, friends and country?

I am Done
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Old 05-10-2007, 20:15   #18
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Originally Posted by CRAZY8 View Post
Ok, I am an older Geezer,

I guess Guns and Ammo back in the 80’s was less PC or informed than the local rag or gun mag today in 2007.
Things are not so funny now in today’s atmosphere and the Ruger mini that you love soooo much and all other Semi-Autos is ‘well’ anyone’s guess when that will be put in the grinder if you give it up.

Will you give your tool to the government, PLEASE TELL ME NOW SIR?

After the 2006 elections, the folks that know best for us are pushing an “Assault weapons” BAN agenda through the Senate and Congress do you hear me, is your mini an Assault weapon NOW. Are you ready to give up your Mini or semi auto anything to the government? Hmmmmm. Sounds like you were picking on a Geezer for fun to me.

Will Gun’s and Ammo from 1982 protect you from the enlightened ones in Washington DC in 2007? ‘NO’ unless you are, stupid enough too feel good about G&A from the 80’s. My man you are picking on the wrong geezer hear. Worry about 2007 today and stop living in the past.

Is your tool an Assault weapon or a Constitutional right to Bear Arms to protect family, friends and country?

I am Done
ASI-65 Grendel

Wow man, seems I stepped on your toes big time. Sorry about that, it certainly was not intended. The "geezer" coment was a poke at myself way more than anyone else, being in that age bracket as I am. If you thought I used the term for you, nothing is further from the truth. As for the rest of my post, it was only meant as a light hearted observation as to changing times and absolutely NOT as any sort of political position or statement. I make it a point not to express an opinoin on US gun laws or any other internal political issue unless asked. Being a citizen of New Zealand I am simply not qualified, but believe me we have to deal with anti gun polititians here as well. It seems I have unintentionally caused you great offence. Allow me to express my oppologies and wish you well in your efforts to retain the firearms of your choice.

Last edited by nzmini; 05-10-2007 at 20:19.
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Old 05-10-2007, 21:10   #19
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Oops! Sorry my friend

Originally Posted by nzmini View Post
Wow man, seems I stepped on your toes big time. Sorry about that, it certainly was not intended. The "geezer" coment was a poke at myself way more than anyone else, being in that age bracket as I am. If you thought I used the term for you, nothing is further from the truth. As for the rest of my post, it was only meant as a light hearted observation as to changing times and absolutely NOT as any sort of political position or statement. I make it a point not to express an opinoin on US gun laws or any other internal political issue unless asked. Being a citizen of New Zealand I am simply not qualified, but believe me we have to deal with anti gun polititians here as well. It seems I have unintentionally caused you great offence. Allow me to express my oppologies and wish you well in your efforts to retain the firearms of your choice.
I had no idea you were from another country the writen word loses emotion and tone mostly so I am sorry about that my friend some of us here in the USA take the consultation of the United States of America very seriously.
I am not old but I am age biased LoL. I apologize too you sir most of us here will fight for our rights to bear arms hence my reply to your post.


Thank you for explaining why you posted the way you did now I understand :O). I guess I should slow down in my old age :O)

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Old 05-10-2007, 22:03   #20
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Originally Posted by CRAZY8 View Post
I had no idea you were from another country the writen word loses emotion and tone mostly so I am sorry about that my friend some of us here in the USA take the consultation of the United States of America very seriously.
I am not old but I am age biased LoL. I apologize too you sir most of us here will fight for our rights to bear arms hence my reply to your post.


Thank you for explaining why you posted the way you did now I understand :O). I guess I should slow down in my old age :O)

M
Glendale, AZ

Thats Ok man I appreciate your comments. I know what you mean about written communication, ya gotta be so careful, especially across cultures. I am glad that you and your countrymen value your 2nd ammendmet the way you do. I have said before on this forum that it's more valuable to you than gold. Down here we would love to have such legal protection but gun ownership here is a "privilege" not a right and our polititians and police never get tired of reminding us that a "privilege" can be removed.

Go well Sir
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Old 05-10-2007, 23:24   #21
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Originally Posted by ryan_kalani View Post
I have both and like them both for different reasons. Here's a quick breakdown.

Mini-14 Pros:
Better Gas Design
Less parts to Break

AR-15 Pros:
Mags n Parts EVERYWHERE
More Accurate than Mini

Mini-14 Cons:
VERY tough to get a spare bolt/firing pin
Less Accurate than AR-15
Get pricey factory mags or don't even bother

AR-15 Cons:
Can be picky with ammo
Requires a bit more maint.
+1 on everything you said. And I'm glad you didn't say the Mini was more "reliable" than the AR; I haven't found that to be the case. Of course, I'm not using either one in the sands of Iraq, I'm primarily a range weenie, so what the heck do I know? In any case, the "reliability" of my AR and my Mini, mechanically speaking, is roughly equal.

As for the oh-so-subjective "fun factor", it's still true that, when my Mini is "on" and I have it shooting well with a good scope and good ammo, I enjoy shooting it much more than my AR. It's because I enjoy the classic wood and steel aspect of the rifle, and the M1-type shape, and the light weight. Much as I love the AR, I can never quite get used to that goofy "sproing" sound when it fires.

However, something that's been bothering me about Mini's lately, and I notice this on mine and hear about it from many others in this forum, is that once you get a Mini shooting accurately, it can be quite tricky to KEEP it there. The slightest change--a re-torqued gas block, a remounted scope rail, or even running a patch through it during a range session--can throw you completely out of whack for anywhere from a few rounds to several shooting sessions. It's true that could be the case with ANY firearm, but I have to say, compared to all my other guns, the Mini is by far the hardest to maintain its accuracy, once you get it there. And that makes me worry about whether it truly IS a good SHTF gun, because it may be physically tough, but if it cannot hold its accuracy under the roughness of battle conditions, I'd wonder if it was really a good choice. A related issue is, given how quickly it overheats with the skinny barrel, I cannot see how it could really be a good battle rifle anyway, if you were going to be firing more than about 5 shots at a time. Not slamming here, just thinking out loud. The Mini's a fine gun if you use it for what it's designed for, it's just a matter of choosing the right tool for the job. For SHTF scenarioes, I think I'd choose a reliable, tactical bolt gun for long-range sniping purposes, or a good sidearm for up-close work, or a shotgun if I were doing crowd control, or perhaps an AR for urban combat type situations if you expect real extended fire fights. It depends on the situation; ideally I'd like to have an arsenal that includes all of the above, including an accurate Mini!!!

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Old 05-11-2007, 16:02   #22
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I seldom engage in the "Mini vs AR" debates because there simply is no right or wrong answer. These two weapons share nothing in common except the cartridge that they fire.

A more fair comparison would be a Mini vs AK. Neither one of these weapons were built for optimum accuracy, but for more for reliability. The intention of an AK is to have a short, hearty weapon that will go bang every time and to hit a man size target somewhere within a range of 150 yards or so. I think both the mini and the AK accomplish this pretty well.

But, alas, we all like our weapons to be super accurate and super reliable all the time. I do. That's why I have done all the mods to my Minis to make them as accurate as I can afford them to be and still be light handy guns. I got one of my Mini's groups closed up from about 8 inches to 1.5" at 100 yards, and the other one is a 15" barrel job with an EoTech and folding stock that shoots 1" groups at 50 yards. I'm happy with both.

A certain SHTF situation could be a Katrina type situation where you just have to protect your house and property from a few potentially armed thieves and thugs. In this case, maximum range would be less than 50 yards for most people. My mini may string shots when hot, but not so much that I couldn't hit somewhere on a human size target at 50 yards. Just aim at center mass and fire. You'll get their attention.

Here's my scenarios for potential SHTF and my weapon of choice for each:
1. Guarding inside of house: Winchester 1300 12 ga
2. Guarding outside of house: Mini 14 ss with folding stock and EoTech
3. Guarding my street (its a long street): AR 15
4. Have to flee the house and be in open country: M1A

Also, my Spfld XD .45 will be with me in all cases too.

That's my plan. Hope I never have to use it.
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Old 05-11-2007, 21:26   #23
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The "automatic" requirement for a weapon to be an "assault weapon" is no longer relevant. Most soldiers' M-16s are set to semiautomatic because it has been determined that "full auto" merely wastes ammunition; it doesn't get more kills. Full auto weapons allow three or four trigger presses before magazine changes are needed; the 3-round burst setting allows 10 presses.

A case in point is the FAL battle rifle. The rifle was practically uncontrollable unless fired semiautomatically, so the rifle was usually issued as a semiautomatic military weapon. I think that it is a certainty that the people shot with the FAL didn't know the difference.

The 2nd Amendment is NOT about guaranteeing the right to shoot ducks and hunt deer; its about the right to kill bad people: tyrants and the minions who empower them. Its about preserving citizen's rights to own the weapons that are the most effective at killing bad people, not game. It's about guaranteeing the right to own assault rifles, battle rifles, and pistols; not skeet guns, .22 target pistols, and single shot rifles.
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Old 05-13-2007, 08:21   #24
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On the 2nd ammendment;Well said-Nobody!
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Old 05-13-2007, 20:24   #25
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Originally Posted by Nobody View Post

The 2nd Amendment is NOT about guaranteeing the right to shoot ducks and hunt deer; its about the right to kill bad people: tyrants and the minions who empower them. Its about preserving citizen's rights to own the weapons that are the most effective at killing bad people, not game. It's about guaranteeing the right to own assault rifles, battle rifles, and pistols; not skeet guns, .22 target pistols, and single shot rifles.
Again, well said. Anyone who has done ANY research into the original intent of our founding fathers when they wrote the Second Ammendment would know that they meant for the AVERAGE RESPONSIBLE CITIZEN to be able to resist any form of tyranny from the Government that serves them. They never meant for the AVERAGE CITIZEN to be subjugated to the will of the Government. The Second Ammendment is what protects all the other ammendments. The Government SHOULD BE AFRAID of it's citizens, not the other way around.
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