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-   -   Question Frequent light primer strikes on new 584 Tactical (http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=210746)

blackonblack2007 07-29-2020 17:57

Frequent light primer strikes on new 584 Tactical
 
Finally got my Mini 14 to the rifle range today and over the course of ~40 rounds had about 6 light primer strikes. Ammo was a mix of American Eagle 62gr green tips and Aguila 62gr FMJ. Any suggestions short of sending it back to Ruger for repair? I'd like to avoid sending it back if possible, this would be the second Mini-14 I've had to send back to Ruger out of the box with issues (last one was a bolt holdback not functioning right).

Sparkie 07-29-2020 19:52

How deep were the primers hit on the rounds that fired?
Did they look normal or were they also just enough to fire?
Remove the bolt and check the firing pin movement and protrusion.
Check the bolt face for high spots or burrs around the fp hole.
Check the bolt and hammer for any thing that looks unusual.
Put some light oil in the fp channel Ruger does not oil anything most of the time.
Make sure the bolt is going all the way into battery.
Put another 100 to 200 rounds thru it and see if the problem continues.
Could be tight and more rounds will loosen it up.
If it continues or gets worse send it back.

blackonblack2007 07-29-2020 23:36

The firing pin strikes looked about average to me, maybe slightly light compared to the ones that fired correctly. I stripped the rifle down to clean and lube everything again so I'll give it some more rounds to see what happens. No burrs or other issues that I could see.

40nascar 07-30-2020 02:12

The green tips probably use a harder ( machine gun) primer. I would use brass case standard .223 ( not 5.56) loads for the next 200 or so rounds of break-in, if you don't have any other function issues. Mini 14, 30 have firing pins fitted that have barely enough potrusion to fire yhe primers consistantly. If you know a good gunsmith, you could also have them fit a new pin from firingpins.com. They are made of high quality stainles, and are much better quality than the Ruger made one. Have it fitted for a minimum of .040", and not more than .044" potrusion. While your at it, you may as well have him smooth out and lighten the trigger pull for you. 4.5 to 5.0 lbs. of pull is good enough to get you good accuracy, and keep you out of trouble from a hare trgger. Best wishes for you and your mini.

silvermane_1 07-30-2020 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40nascar (Post 1644822)
The green tips probably use a harder ( machine gun) primer. I would use brass case standard .223 ( not 5.56) loads for the next 200 or so rounds of break-in, if you don't have any other function issues. Mini 14, 30 have firing pins fitted that have barely enough potrusion to fire yhe primers consistantly. If you know a good gunsmith, you could also have them fit a new pin from firingpins.com. They are made of high quality stainles, and are much better quality than the Ruger made one. Have it fitted for a minimum of .040", and not more than .044" potrusion. While your at it, you may as well have him smooth out and lighten the trigger pull for you. 4.5 to 5.0 lbs. of pull is good enough to get you good accuracy, and keep you out of trouble from a hare trgger. Best wishes for you and your mini.

My thoughts exactly there 40nascar, that's something that most folks attribute to light primer strikes is hard military style(machinegun) primers.;)

dh1633pm 07-30-2020 11:28

I had ASI fit a new firing pin to my Mini 30 that was having the same problem with steel cased ammo. I didn't want to return the whole rifle to Ruger. Turn around was quick and the work well done. I had to ship the bolt only.

Richard Coss 07-30-2020 11:33

Thanks for the firing pin info guys. I have same problem with mini 30. I tried 20 rounds of the cheap stuff, can't remember the name but it was $4.95 per 20 rounds. Anyway out of the 20 that I tried only 7 rounds fired. Went back to my reloads and everything worked fine.

RIBob 07-30-2020 11:37

Below are my personal observations on Mil-Spec primers. YMMV.

AFAIK, there are two versions of Mil-Spec primers available; the #34 (7.62 NATO), and the #41 (5.56 NATO), both made by CCI.

To the best of my understanding, there are three major differences between these primers compared to most other primers, aside from color; Original Mil primers are brass-colored, and the CCI primers are silver-colored.

1) They are designed to reliably ignite in very low temperatures. Some primers may fail to do so.

2) They produce a flame closely comparable to that of a Magnum primer of the same size. In practice, the reloader will need to slightly reduce the powder charge to obtain a given bullet velocity. This offsets, to some degree, the increased cost of this type of primer.

3) They are constructed to withstand the typical light impact of a properly-fitted, properly functioning, free-floating firing pin, such as found in many military and civilian firearms, particularly semi-auto firearms. This characteristic in no way eliminates or reduces the requirement to use correct primer pocket preparation technique, nor does it eliminate or reduce the requirement for correct primer seating. Ensuring the free-floating firing pin is, indeed, free-floating, is also critical.

FWIW, I have used thousands of these primers to construct "Mil-Spec Equivalent" ammo, both 5.56 and 7.62. I use a Chronograph to fine-tune the powder charge to meet the desired Mil-Spec bullet velocity, which ensures that the sights on my ARs, M1 Garands, M1A, and other firearms, whose sights were originally calibrated for certain bullet velocities will be "in calibration" at all ranges for which the sights were originally designed. Naturally, going through all this does not require Mil-Spec primers. Given good handloading technique, ammo using such Mil-Spec primers can be very accurate, indeed.

These primers have been used in ammo for many US military firearms for a long time, both semi-auto and full-auto.

The above reflect my personal knowledge and use of Mil-Spec primers. No doubt others have experience with Mil-Spec primers, and I look forward to their comments.

I certainly don't say that ammo which does not use such Mil-Spec primers is inherently unsafe or UNSAT for use in firearms with free-floating firing pins. People using many different types of primers, and who have used proper primer-related techniques, have made millions of rds of ammo with no ill-effects.

Gearhead Jim 08-06-2020 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackonblack2007 (Post 1644814)
The firing pin strikes looked about average to me, maybe slightly light compared to the ones that fired correctly. I stripped the rifle down to clean and lube everything again so I'll give it some more rounds to see what happens. No burrs or other issues that I could see.

Many years ago I was told that when a round fires, the pressure in the primer pocket (from primer and powder firing) tends to slightly flatten the rear face of the primer, which we all see on fired ammo. Over-pressure rounds flatten the primer more.
If the primer doesn't ignite, that slight pressure flattening does not happen. So a normal firing pin strike on a dud primer, will look a little shallower than on a similar primer that fired the round.
The point was that a slightly shallow-looking primer indent on a dud, does not necessarily mean a light hit by the firing pin.

But a Mini should shoot anything that's in spec for civvie or GI ammo, so I expect that your rifle has a problem.

kwg020 08-06-2020 15:52

We have covered primers and firing pins a lot in the last few years. The cheap steel ammo (Tula and Wolf) give the most problems because they tend to be deeper into the case and they may be harder than American commercial primers. I hope you give some other ammo a try before you get frustrated and give up.

I have discovered that if you reload the CCI 400 primers tend to be the softest primers I have used. The CCI 450 and Federal primers tend to be harder with CCI #41 primers the hardest. Good luck on your next range trip.

kwg

Ralan 08-06-2020 16:27

Mini 14 Firing Pin Protrusion
 
Just curious if anyone knows why the Mini 14 has a firing pin protrusion range of .040", and not more than .044" as stated in a previous post when the standard range for centerfire rifles is normally .050 and .060 with most recommended to be set at .055"? What makes the Mini different since for most small rifle primers I read that you want to ensure that the primer indentation depth is in the range of .020" to .025" for reliability? Thanks.

40nascar 08-17-2020 10:06

Thats a good question for the engineers at Ruger

sandog 08-17-2020 10:43

I agree with everything Sparkie said to check above, although I wouldn't put oil on the firing pin. Some dry lube, yes.

imarangemaster 08-23-2020 09:20

I had light primer strikes on my 581, and come to think of it, it was my reloads with CCI #41 5.56 primers... The firing pin was at absolute minimum spec on protrusion, so I eventually replaced it with Firingpins.com stainless one piece. I made it .036" and have never had a light strike since, or blown primer.


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