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Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 family of rifles

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Old 07-24-2020, 09:56   #1
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Old Eyes Fix it!

I put this up on the flashlight thread but it needs to be it's own thread as well.

Here's a tidbit of info concerning fuzzy dots.

If your eye isn't directly in line with the optics centerline you will get a fuzzy or misshapen dot.

This is especially true with Bushnell TRS 25's and I have experienced it until I figured out what was going on.

Just like with a scope if your eye is not centered on the optic you will get shadows around the edges of the field of view. You all have experienced this.

Well, the same holds true with the Red Dot Sights except it doesn't show as a Shadow, it shows as a weird dot.

On a Rifle, your cheek weld should place your eye in the correct position, but doesn't guarantee it. You need to make sure your cheek weld is, in fact, in the correct position to line your eye up with the optic just like you would do with a scope or iron sights.

On a Pistol it is harder to pick up the dot during the presentation unless your presentation is perfectly repeatable with every iteration. I removed my Fast Fire from my Glock 35 because I had to "hunt the dot" every time I drew the gun. Mind you it is not that far away, or out of view, it is just a little off and that takes precious time and attention away from your other functions as you come on target before you can fire.

Last,,, If you have old eyes and you haven't been to an Optometrist in a while or ever, you need to get off you butt and get your eyes examined and get some proper glasses. NOT BIFOCALS! You need Progressives for shooting. If you haven't worn them before, they take a little getting used to. Learn to Live with it, it's worth the effort!!!

I go to Costco for my eye exams and it is not at all expensive. Then you go to a discount eyeglass maker in your area, or Costco, with your prescription and get your glasses made.

My last two pairs cost me < $200 for the whole show.(Exam and glasses) I got regular glasses I wear all the time and Sunglasses that have the same prescription. You need to tell your optometrist that you are a shooter and they will tweak the prescription so your close in focal length is a little farther out than at it's peak. IE: your prescription will be dialed back about one click from what the machine says. IE: 1.75 diopter instead of 2.00.

You can do this too! You just have to want to,,, and I really don't want to hear about your Old Eyes! Do something about it, it ain't that hard!!!


Randy
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:44   #2
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I have progressive lenses and they are set up for shooting, doesn't help with astigmatism. The red dot is still a fuzzy comet.
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:58   #3
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My Romeo 5 dot looks misshapen. I will check out if maybe this is why.
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Old 07-24-2020, 11:14   #4
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https://www.at3tactical.com/blogs/ne...nd-astigmatism

I put my Romeo 5 on my wife's PX9, she sees a perfect red dot.
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Old 07-25-2020, 07:43   #5
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Astigmatism is pretty hit and miss. I have an Aimpoint PRO and a Romeo MSR. Both work well enough, but I get a better image with the Romeo.
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:32   #6
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This thread seems to have some very useful info, particularly for people with Astigmatism:

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...r-astigmatism/
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:45   #7
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With my glasses, the TRS-25 dot is crisp; without, it is a big blurry star. Contrast that to a scope and the opposite is true. Irons are fine with my glasses, fuzzy otherwise.

Unless I forget to clean my glasses first. They are constantly dirty from sweat, barn dust, tears, and hose spray-back.

Or something...
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Old 07-25-2020, 11:39   #8
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With Iron Sights the only thing that matters is the Front Sight. You need to be able to focus on it,,, the rear sight will be fuzzy and so will the target. Haivng glasses taht allow focusing at that distance is key, and this is where Progressives come in. The focal length is infinitely variable.

My lenses have a close focal length of about 12" I can still see a little closer and as the distance increases they work all the way to infinity. With Bifocals you get one distance up close like for reading and then, a distance focal length that should work for anything beyond @10-15 feet.

Sight Alignment comes up next and with open sights you make sight alignment and hold it in place with your cheek weld and then put the Front Sight on the target and let fly.

With Aperture Sights you eye automatically centers the Front Sight in the aperture and then you put it on the target and let fly.

With a Red Dot you focus on the Dot put it on target, and let fly. Same with a Cross Hair.

With open sights you have three things to contend with but after you figure out sight alignment you only put the sight on target the alignment is taken care of by your cheek weld.

With Aperture Sights you only have 2 things to contend with, Front Sight and Target Thus it is faster.

With the dot you only have one thing to focus on, the dot, so it is faster yet. With a Red DotSight the firing sequence goes Dot, Bang, Dot, Bang, Dot, Bang. There is no need to study the sights you simply put the dot on target and let fly. the bullet is going where ever the dot is when the shot breaks..

Even if the dot is fuzzy due to your eyesight or other issue the bullet is still going where the dot is. Dots were not created for precision shooting, although you can shoot pretty close with one if you do it right. They were made specifically for fast target acquisition.

Randy
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Old 07-25-2020, 12:09   #9
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As far as the fuzzy dot goes,,, It really doesn't matter. The bullet is going where ever the dot is placed ! Fuzzy or not as long is it isn't too big your gonna hit what you are aiming at.

They weren't made for Precision Shooting they were made for Quick Target Acquisition.

When you see someone shooting a big target that is relatively hard to miss for anyone not totally blind, and they are spending time looking at the sights instead of pulling the trigger,, they are "Studying the Sights." I beat this out of my Bro In Law at our last shotgun class. His shotgun has a big dayglow orange front sight and a ghost ring rear sight. I pushed him to pull the trigger as soon as that front sight was on the target, and then rack the gun as soon as the shot broke. I had to break him of studying the sights.

This is a habit and just like picking your nose, and you can beat it.

With a Red Dot Sight as soon as the dot is on the target, Bang! There is no thinking involved, you already made the decision to shoot. So pull the trigger! It becomes a reflex and especially on closer targets.The object is to get shots on targets as quickly as possible, shot placement is not the object because if your first shot doesn't kill the guy it will damn sure slow him down, and give you time to apply more lead to the problem.

Practicing this is key and it pretty much has to be done live fire. Start with a Mansized target at 15 yards and learn to double tap as fast as you can. You should be able to get off two shots in less than 1.5 seconds from the ready with a rifle. @1.7 seconds for a pump shotgun. You also have to consider height above bore and compensate for it out to 25+ yards but that just comes under the heading of Sight Picture. It is still Dot Bang, Dot Bang.

Same holds true with a shotgun, either with a bead or rifle sights. And with a shotgun perfect shot placement is not necessary as any hits with .30 caliber balls will probably do the trick. This means you can go even faster !!!

If confronted by an armed adversary your ability to get shots on target in as short a period of time as possible, will define your survivability in that situation.

You might have noticed that things are heating up in our country?

Might be a good time to do some practice, and improve your gun handling.

just sayin'

Randy
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Old 07-25-2020, 12:59   #10
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If you don't have astigmatism, you don't know what it's like.
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Old 07-25-2020, 14:44   #11
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Can you see the dot? if you can,,,, you can use it just like described above.

My wife has Astigmatism in her right eye. And in addition to that, she is cross eye dominate which means she has to close her good eye to shoot right handed.

She can do it, and she doesn't even want to.

The most relevant part of that post was the last two sentences.

You might have noticed that things are heating up in our country?

Might be a good time to do some practice, and improve your gun handling.

just sayin'


Randy.
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Old 07-25-2020, 14:49   #12
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You studied optometry where? You assume that I haven't tried different options and that I don't know how to use my sights or my rifles. You do not have all the answers, You are not the only one who is aware of what's going on in this country.
You'll like being on ignore, it's quiet in there.
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Old 07-26-2020, 01:01   #13
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Hard to understand why you think I was assuming anything about you?

I studied Optometry at Costco where I got my eye exam. And I asked questions.

I didn't assume anything about you, and didn't say anything about your options, all I said is if you can see the dot and the target at the same time, you can pull the trigger.

Never said I knew everything, and the only reason I'm spreading the condition of the country is because not everyone is paying attention, and they really need to.

Did you see the Armed Black Militia in Louisville today, they looked pretty serious to me. One of their guys accidentally shot 3 of his buddies. Lots of guns not a whole lot of training. They are way more dangerous than the unarmed Protesters with water bottles and umbrellas.

Go ahead and Ignore me, You don't have to listen, it's a free country,,, For now!

Randy
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Old 07-26-2020, 04:22   #14
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Awhile back I finally got my eyes examined. Went to America's Best got 2 pairs of glasses and a free eye exam for 69 bucks. Turns out I have astigmatism and glaucoma besides needing specs. Anyhow with the glasses I can use my red dot. Without the glasses there are 2 fuzzy dots. I didn't realize how bad my vision had gotten. With the glasses on it's 20/20.
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Old 07-26-2020, 14:15   #15
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Here is one of my home defense rifles. The other is a 580 stainless with a 2-7 Nikon on it. I have loaded some 63 grain SMP's for the job. I consider the ammo as important as the rifle. Not shown is a 18" Winchester 12 gauge.
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Old 07-26-2020, 14:52   #16
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There are degrees of Astigmatism, and not necessarily identical with both eyes. At some point, some people might have severe Astigmatic issues with typical red-dot sights, and even Holo-sights, rendering both types unusable, in practice.

My link above was intended to suggest prism sights for people who had difficulty with typical red-dot sights-- typically the people suffering from Astigmatism.

May I suggest we move forward beyond confrontation, and listen to each other?
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Old 07-26-2020, 16:09   #17
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Old Eyes Fix it!

Astigmatism is a focal plane rotational problem unique to your eye, and emitter laser light has polarization (the dot), created by trapping light behind a polarizing filter until it emits) which means you may also see a difference as you rotate your eye in reference to the dot (really in reference to the emitter creating the dot). This is one reason why some dots appear less star, fuzzy or blurry than others for the same user, and why different users looking at the same dot see different shaped stars and blurs or duplicates.

You may see a different effect with and without polarized sunglasses which can eliminate some of the starburst.

My right eye typically creates a starburst that is off center and rising to the right with most but not all red dots Iíve seen. It is very distracting, and although I can use them it is NOT faster to target than a prism is. In fact, Iím faster with A2 iron sights because the burst makes it very difficult to find center.

I personally have chosen a prism for my primary rifle. LVPO for my secondary rifle. I have a red dot on another but would not choose that purposefully for conflict or competition. It just works better for me to have an etched reticle.


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Old 07-26-2020, 16:15   #18
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Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
Astigmatism is a focal plane rotational problem unique to your eye, and emitter laser light has polarization (the dot), created by trapping light behind a polarizing filter until it emits) which means you may also see a difference as you rotate your eye in reference to the dot (really in reference to the emitter creating the dot). This is one reason why some dots appear less star, fuzzy or blurry than others for the same user, and why different users looking at the same dot see different shaped stars and blurs or duplicates.

You may see a different effect with and without polarized sunglasses which can eliminate some of the starburst.

My right eye typically creates a starburst that is off center and rising to the right with most but not all red dots Iíve seen. It is very distracting, and although I can use them it is NOT faster to target than a prism is. In fact, Iím faster with A2 iron sights because the burst make air very difficult to find center.

I personally have chosen a prism for my primary rifle. LVPO for my secondary rifle. I have a red dot on another but would not choose that purposefully for conflict or competition. It just works better for me to have an etched reticle.


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Useful, pertinent information. Fully concur.
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Old 07-26-2020, 16:45   #19
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Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
Astigmatism is a focal plane rotational problem unique to your eye, and emitter laser light has polarization (the dot), created by trapping light behind a polarizing filter until it emits) which means you may also see a difference as you rotate your eye in reference to the dot (really in reference to the emitter creating the dot). This is one reason why some dots appear less star, fuzzy or blurry than others for the same user, and why different users looking at the same dot see different shaped stars and blurs or duplicates.

You may see a different effect with and without polarized sunglasses which can eliminate some of the starburst.

My right eye typically creates a starburst that is off center and rising to the right with most but not all red dots Iíve seen. It is very distracting, and although I can use them it is NOT faster to target than a prism is. In fact, Iím faster with A2 iron sights because the burst makes it very difficult to find center.

I personally have chosen a prism for my primary rifle. LVPO for my secondary rifle. I have a red dot on another but would not choose that purposefully for conflict or competition. It just works better for me to have an etched reticle.


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Yep, a prism scope with an etched reticle works well for me, I decided on them a couple of years ago.
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Old 07-26-2020, 18:54   #20
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Just for info, you all realize that you can see reflex dots with a night scope.
True Holographic sights do not show up when using NV.
Can't we all just get along. HA HA
I have been Astigmatismatic since I popped outta ma.
A good optometrist can help, but not all are good some are just passable.
If your going to a big city or live there keep your head on a swivel.
Have a terrific day @ the range.
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Old 07-26-2020, 19:04   #21
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Originally Posted by Sparkie View Post
Just for info, you all realize that you can see reflex dots with a night scope.
True Holographic sights do not show up when using NV.
Can't we all just get along. HA HA
I have been Astigmatismatic since I popped outta ma.
A good optometrist can help, but not all are good some are just passable.
If your going to a big city or live there keep your head on a swivel.
Have a terrific day @ the range.
I have hesitated about mentioning the NV aspect. Probably the easiest thing to do is turn ON your Illuminated Optics and set them to Full-Bright, then go to a totally dark area, and look carefully into the Objective end of the optic, while moving it around a bit, so all angles can be seen. If you see some light, well, there it is.

Might not be noticed by an observer's naked eye, particularly at extended ranges, but might be magnified by NODs worn by an observer. It is possible that such "External Detection" of Illuminated Optics can be mitigated through the use of Anti-Reflection/"Killflash" devices, worn over the Objective end of the optic. There are many mfrs/vendors for such devices, perhaps even the original mfr of your particular optic. I have used products from Leupold and from these people: https://armament.com/

YMMV, of course, but I suggest considering "External Detection" of illuminated optics, whether or not one has astigmatism, and the optic's suitability for use in conjunction with NODs in addition to the usual concerns when contemplating future purchases of illuminated optics.

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Old 07-27-2020, 07:34   #22
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I wear progressive bifocals and have astigmatism. Yet my glasses do a good job correcting it. I have a RMR06 on my M&P, a Romeo1 on my 320, and a Vortex Strikefire on one of my ARs. Each show a good dot when I catch them in the right place. The first few shots at the range, I end up tilting my head forward and back until I find the sweet spot. Fortunately, it's mostly forward (up in the distant vision section). For handgun iron sights, I tilt more rearward to focus the front sight (toward the reading section). I also have a Leupold scope on a Winchester M70. Same routine with the cross hairs.

I have thought about dedicated shooting glasses but since I don't compete I would only wear them at the range or for a class. I wouldn't be wearing them at or around home so I figured best to practice with the glasses I'd be wearing anyway.
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Old 07-27-2020, 08:01   #23
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I wear progressives and see the fuzzy dot. Tilting my head way back I get a little better front sight focus but the dot is still fuzzy. I bought some fixed power glasses years ago for reading music and close up computer screen that is in perfect focus around 27". I just tried them using open pistol sights and now the front is in perfect focus no matter how I position my head. The longer distance is now a little fuzzy but I think it is supposed to be if you are on the front sight in focus. Cant wait to try it out soon with bullets!
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Old 07-27-2020, 11:27   #24
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Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
Astigmatism is a focal plane rotational problem unique to your eye, and emitter laser light has polarization (the dot), created by trapping light behind a polarizing filter until it emits) which means you may also see a difference as you rotate your eye in reference to the dot (really in reference to the emitter creating the dot). This is one reason why some dots appear less star, fuzzy or blurry than others for the same user, and why different users looking at the same dot see different shaped stars and blurs or duplicates.

You may see a different effect with and without polarized sunglasses which can eliminate some of the starburst.

My right eye typically creates a starburst that is off center and rising to the right with most but not all red dots Iíve seen. It is very distracting, and although I can use them it is NOT faster to target than a prism is. In fact, Iím faster with A2 iron sights because the burst makes it very difficult to find center.

I personally have chosen a prism for my primary rifle. LVPO for my secondary rifle. I have a red dot on another but would not choose that purposefully for conflict or competition. It just works better for me to have an etched reticle.


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This is a good explanation however the one thing I don't understand is the part in bold.

"Iím faster with A2 iron sights because the burst makes it very difficult to find center."

Why do you need to find the center of the dot?

Now I can see if the dot is huge, however most rifle dots are 1-3 MOA and will hardly cover a target at 1-300 yards. A 3 MOA dot is 9" at 300 yards. So if you put the dot on the Man Sized Target you should hit it.

My dots are usually not perfectly round and since they are away from my eye a foot + the are very small so you really can't tell if they are perfectly round or not. But for some reason I still hit the targets as long as the dot is on the target when the shot breaks.

My whole point on this subject is the simple fact that if the gun is sighted in, the bullet will go to where ever the dot is when the shot breaks. It doesn't matter if the dot is round, a star, a comet, or fuzzy or even a Triangle like Trijicons. It doesn't matter if the dot is off center in the field of view, in all cases The bullet goes to where ever the dot is at when the shot breaks. Period.

This is a mechanical thing it has nothing to do with eyesight.

The only time when the bullet will go some where else, is if the gun is NOT sighted in .

Randy
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Old 07-27-2020, 13:08   #25
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The info on progressive lenses is good stuff, but beyond that not everyone cares for dots. Let them use what they prefer. And remember, whatever optic you use, your irons are the backup for when/if the optic fails. If you are able, stay proficient with iron sights. The Ruger Mini-14/Mini-30 comes from the factory as a fully functional firearm with iron sights. Many people do really well with the carbine as is.

I don't care for dots myself at this time, but I know lots of good people who do. I don't have Astigmatism, but I've known people who do. It's a complicated condition, effecting people in different ways and degrees of severity. I have other reasons why dots haven't caught on with me.

I like scout scopes and I have three different models, all by Burris. I enthusiastically recommend people try them, yet try not to be evangelical about it. I've also spent considerable time and effort getting my iron sights just right, and I practice with them enough to stay grounded with the basic rifle as I bought it.

Whatever we're well practiced with will be what we're most effective with.

Back to the vision topic... multifocal contact lenses are another option for people who don't want to mess with glasses.
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