Mini 14 low profile red dot sight recommendation - Page 2 - Shooting Sports Forum


Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 family of rifles

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Old 07-13-2020, 11:07   #26
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Lake City 5.56 62gr. They were just going a couple feet
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Old 07-13-2020, 14:16   #27
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Originally Posted by bmur66 View Post
Lake City 5.56 62gr. They were just going a couple feet
Well, that wasn't it then.

Maybe we covered this already - but are you sure you got everything lined up properly when you had the smaller bushing in? Are you sure it was not too long for its pocket? Anything that leaves the gas pipe off center with its hole in the op rod can cause it to drag and not cycle reliably.
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Old 07-13-2020, 14:49   #28
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Originally Posted by Cato View Post
What ammo were you using? Did you check the fps?

I just ran through some Remington factory stuff that almost dribbled out at my feet, with an occasional next round not picked up by the bolt. Really underpowered stuff, while the equivalent load from Armscore was ejecting reliably 12'-15' and running like a champ.
This is a very good question. Not all commercial ammo is loaded identically, not is it loaded uniformly.

Any experienced handloader will tell you that he/she can re-load ammo to tighter specs than almost all factory-produced ammo.

Probably why Ruger used the relatively huge OEM gas orifice. Just install a part with which even the occasional underloaded factory ammo would reliably cycle. Valid from their point of view, maybe not so good from other viewpoints.

Last edited by RIBob; 07-13-2020 at 15:29.
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Old 07-13-2020, 15:39   #29
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Originally Posted by Cato View Post
Well, that wasn't it then.

Maybe we covered this already - but are you sure you got everything lined up properly when you had the smaller bushing in? Are you sure it was not too long for its pocket? Anything that leaves the gas pipe off center with its hole in the op rod can cause it to drag and not cycle reliably.
bmur66, was the ammo surplus ammo? What are the dates on the headstamp on the case? Was the ammo reloaded using surplus cases? Did you install an aftermarket recoil spring? Are the primers in the ammo silver, or are they brass-colored?

Agree that something seems a bit unusual, but not doubting bmur66. Let's see what bmur66 says.
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Old 07-14-2020, 08:30   #30
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Okay, pick an ammo you are happy with, buy a case or two, and adjust from there...Every Mini is different (but close).

I like my PMC .223 Bronze and PPU M193 and will stick with it. Difference is less than personal skill. It is a CARBINE!!! Not a sniper rifle! COM on a silhouette target is "good enough". Want super-duper results, get a bolt gun. That is what I did ( Savage Axis-II). Far much less than the costs to get a carbine up to those standards, with questionable needs.

Then again, my shooting needs are limited to my farm: if I need something more accurate, I just go to my Savage...It is mostly to humanely dispatch a rabid critter from distance. Minis are more suited (to me) to two-legged threats.
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Old 07-15-2020, 02:17   #31
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Question

Originally Posted by RIBob View Post
bmur66, was the ammo surplus ammo? What are the dates on the headstamp on the case? Was the ammo reloaded using surplus cases? Did you install an aftermarket recoil spring? Are the primers in the ammo silver, or are they brass-colored?

Agree that something seems a bit unusual, but not doubting bmur66. Let's see what bmur66 says.
Gas block and bushing seemed to go together well and all was aligned properly as far as I can tell. Did not seem as though the bushing was too long for the pocket. Action operated smoothly with no catches.
Lake City ammo was all factory fresh bulk ammo. I didn't have a chance to look at dates or primers. Factory recoil spring. Using minimal gun grease in a couple places. I am using one recoil buffer.
I shot 40 rounds thru it after assembling with the factory gas bushing with no problems. Brass is landing 10-14 feet away which is fine with me. Seems to be OK. I don't know why this gun doesn't like a smaller bushing like everyone recommends
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Old 07-15-2020, 04:57   #32
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I'm thinking if it ain't broke don't fix it. I resisted doing any mods to mine and it only got better with age. I have about 1500 rounds through it so far. I have the Primary Arms Micro Dot on it with the Ruger rail. Mounted it towards the back and no brass hits it, bolt comes in and out easily, mounts quick with good cheek weld. I have the 1911 buffers but have never tried them. I read on here a lot. It was tough to resist messing with the gun but I'm glad I did. Very reliable and reasonably accurate for what it is.
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Old 07-15-2020, 09:05   #33
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Originally Posted by bmur66 View Post
Gas block and bushing seemed to go together well and all was aligned properly as far as I can tell. Did not seem as though the bushing was too long for the pocket. Action operated smoothly with no catches.
Lake City ammo was all factory fresh bulk ammo. I didn't have a chance to look at dates or primers. Factory recoil spring. Using minimal gun grease in a couple places. I am using one recoil buffer.
I shot 40 rounds thru it after assembling with the factory gas bushing with no problems. Brass is landing 10-14 feet away which is fine with me. Seems to be OK. I don't know why this gun doesn't like a smaller bushing like everyone recommends
Well, 10-14' is about perfect, IMO. That's where I like it for most loads to cycle.
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:05   #34
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OP, it's nice if one can install a smaller gas bushing, but never at the expense of reliability.

Just shoot yours, clean and lube it as required, and have fun.

At some point in the future, after further "wearing-in", you might choose to revisit the reduced gas orifice, perhaps with different results. Your call, of course.

Best of luck!
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Old 07-15-2020, 15:28   #35
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I really like the Ultimak Handguard looks like it is a well done product. However the one thing I don't like is why didn't they run the Pic Rail all the way to the rear like they did for the M1 Carbine variant.

I would like to move my sight forward to just in front of the receiver. Not 4" farther forward than that.

Randy.
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Old 07-15-2020, 16:05   #36
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
I really like the Ultimak Handguard looks like it is a well done product. However the one thing I don't like is why didn't they run the Pic Rail all the way to the rear like they did for the M1 Carbine variant.

I would like to move my sight forward to just in front of the receiver. Not 4" farther forward than that.
Randy.
May i suggest a simple optics/iron sight test?

Mount your unloaded rifle, with eyed closed, and then open your eyes, and see where your sights/optics lie?

A natural, instinctive sight picture is the goal.

With further info, we can help.

If not in perfect alignment with the target, then alterations might be required.

Last edited by RIBob; 07-15-2020 at 16:45.
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Old 07-16-2020, 18:59   #37
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Check out the size of the gas bushing compared to the size of the gas hole drilled in the barrel. Interesting
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Old 07-16-2020, 20:23   #38
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bmur66... looked about the same on my 583 Mini-14.
As measured with number drills, .100 bushing hole and .070 hole in barrel.
Mine is now working smoothly with a .050 bushing.
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Last edited by MJM59; 07-20-2020 at 07:04.
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Old 07-17-2020, 05:01   #39
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
I really like the Ultimak Handguard looks like it is a well done product. However the one thing I don't like is why didn't they run the Pic Rail all the way to the rear like they did for the M1 Carbine variant.

I would like to move my sight forward to just in front of the receiver. Not 4" farther forward than that.

Randy.
The big advantage of the red dot being out on the Ultimak is greatly increased peripheral vision and "downrange awareness".
The further you can get the red dot from your eye the better.

That's the beauty of most red dots, they don't have a fixed eye relief, and eye relief is unlimited.
My Fastfires are about 5 inches forward of the receiver, I'd have them even farther out on the Ultimak if my arms were longer.
I want to be able to comfortably reach the control/brightness button on the dot.

Shooting with the dot well away from your head, and both eyes open (hard to do after shooting varmints with a big scope for years) results in being able to see additional threats appear off to the side in a defensive situation, or that bigger animal that just stepped into view when hunting.

When you shoot with that scope or dot right up against your eye, that's some serious tunnel vision. Close the other eye when shooting, and you are about as blind as you can be as far as downrange awareness.
The Ultimak allows you to get that optic out where it should have been all along.
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Old 07-17-2020, 18:20   #40
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Originally Posted by sandog View Post
The big advantage of the red dot being out on the Ultimak is greatly increased peripheral vision and "downrange awareness".
The further you can get the red dot from your eye the better.

That's the beauty of most red dots, they don't have a fixed eye relief, and eye relief is unlimited.
My Fastfires are about 5 inches forward of the receiver, I'd have them even farther out on the Ultimak if my arms were longer.
I want to be able to comfortably reach the control/brightness button on the dot.

Shooting with the dot well away from your head, and both eyes open (hard to do after shooting varmints with a big scope for years) results in being able to see additional threats appear off to the side in a defensive situation, or that bigger animal that just stepped into view when hunting.

When you shoot with that scope or dot right up against your eye, that's some serious tunnel vision. Close the other eye when shooting, and you are about as blind as you can be as far as downrange awareness.
The Ultimak allows you to get that optic out where it should have been all along.
Concur with sandog's comments. His experiences are the same as mine, as are his conclusions.

The only thing I might add is that some say that optics with rectangular occular ports are preferable to more constricted, circular ones. As always, the rectangular optics demand a premium in price.

Granted, this is splitting hairs, but such remarks are interesting.

Sandogs' Leupold optics seem pretty decent. I suggest shopping around, and mimicking his rig. As funds allow, experiment.

Optics are making great leaps, and what is good today might be obsolete in a few years.

None of this is contrary to sandog's comments, of course; quite the opposite.
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Last edited by RIBob; 07-18-2020 at 01:14.
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Old 07-17-2020, 18:47   #41
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I Shoot with both eyes open. For me the farther the Dot Sight is from my eye the slower it is to pick up the dot and get on target. Had problems with my Fast Fire on my Glock because the sight was so far away from my eye it took longer to pick up.

If you look at my PCC .40 the Sight is in the best place for me. I still have good peripheral vision with that much, probably not quite as much as you do, but sufficient for my use..



The Main reason I'd like it farther forward on the Mini is to get it in front of the Receiver Ring and get rid of the rail over the top of the receiver so the bolt will come out easier.

Note: the bolt handle is back on the right on the PCC as being on the left caused problems I hadn't anticipated.

Randy
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Old 07-18-2020, 01:27   #42
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
I Shoot with both eyes open. For me the farther the Dot Sight is from my eye the slower it is to pick up the dot and get on target. Had problems with my Fast Fire on my Glock because the sight was so far away from my eye it took longer to pick up.

If you look at my PCC .40 the Sight is in the best place for me. I still have good peripheral vision with that much, probably not quite as much as you do, but sufficient for my use..



The Main reason I'd like it farther forward on the Mini is to get it in front of the Receiver Ring and get rid of the rail over the top of the receiver so the bolt will come out easier.

Note: the bolt handle is back on the right on the PCC as being on the left caused problems I hadn't anticipated.

Randy
Your comments on the bolt handle have piqued my interest. I always have liked the FAL, in part because the bolt handle was operated by the (right-handed) shooter's off-hand. What were the problems you encountered?
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Old 07-18-2020, 13:34   #43
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Originally Posted by RIBob View Post
Your comments on the bolt handle have piqued my interest. I always have liked the FAL, in part because the bolt handle was operated by the (right-handed) shooter's off-hand. What were the problems you encountered?
In order to drop the magazine you push the button with your left thumb, and it drops, or you strip it, then you insert a new mag with your left hand.

Can't do that while operating the bolt with your left hand.

Also locking the bolt open during unloading is done by using the left thumb on the bolt catch just behind the Mag Well.

All your mag handling is done with your left hand, it is a problem to have to do the bolt manipulation as well. Strong hand runs the bolt, trigger and safety. Support hand drops and reloads magazines and the bolt latch.

Other than the location of the mag catch and location of the bolt latch, it runs just like a Mini.

Randy
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Old 07-18-2020, 13:36   #44
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Originally Posted by bmur66 View Post
Check out the size of the gas bushing compared to the size of the gas hole drilled in the barrel. Interesting
Yep, according to the original factory design parameters the bushing itself was not intended to regulated gasses, but simply to act as a full-open conduit. The idea of reduced bushings is an aftermarket adaption to regulate gas pressure, which works very well. My 189 Series Mini-30 came from the factory with a .100 inner diameter bushing, which is larger than the port in the barrel.

I've been running a .070 ASI bushing for a couple years, and it has significantly improved things. I'm considering trying the .065 bushing.

I've got the gas block on and tweaked to perfection, so I've been putting off further experimentation. Reliable cycling is of course more important than how far your brass gets kicked out. I have a gut feeling the .065 might be the sweet spot for M30s. I'll get around to giving it go.
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Old 07-18-2020, 14:13   #45
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As for dots and my eyes, the farther away from my eye the easier it is to pick up for quickest target acquisition. But even easier with a scout scope. In the early days, about 1990 for me, we didn't use the term scout scope so much, but rather "forward-mount scope."

Today's more familiar Jeff Cooper scout scope position was not all that relevant on a Ruger Mini or an SKS. The Ultimak was not yet a twinkle in it's creator's eye. My first scout scope had an eye relief of 18 inches, which in practice is virtually unlimited on a Mini. SKS owners used a now discontinued mount made by B-Square, which was way out there on the gas tube. SKS people used pistol scopes which typicaly have greater eye relief than scout scopes.

AS you can see in this older pic of my Mini-30, I didn't even have the ocular lens pulled back as close to my eye as it could go. I had it in the sweet spot for my eyesight. Lightning fast target acquisition would be an understatement.

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Old 07-18-2020, 15:03   #46
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Eye sight is a strange thing, closer to my eye works best for me with a red dot or scope, It 's hard to recommend anything. What works best for me is bass ackwards for other people.You have to experiment a bit to find what you need.
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Old 07-19-2020, 05:25   #47
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Years and years of using a conventional scope pressed up against your eye make it harder to use a Scout scope at first. But once you do get used to the forward mounted scope, you realize the advantages.
Nothing is as quick, and gives you fantastic peripheral vision.

Some that have never even tried a forward mounted scope will matter-of-factly tell you that there's no way you can achieve good accuracy with the forward mounted scope.
I beg to differ:

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Old 07-19-2020, 05:57   #48
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I have no doubt that what you are saying is true for you and most folks. I've tried lots of scopes and red dots in various configurations, I don't really care for any of them. I'll stick with the Tech sights for the foreseeable future, I can still use them well enough that I am confident of my shots. I rarely shoot paper so I can't talk about group sizes, but the armadillo's, groundhogs and pigs don't escape if I squeeze the trigger. I'm delighted that you guys have found optic's that work so well for you, maybe I will some day.
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Old 07-19-2020, 10:43   #49
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
In order to drop the magazine you push the button with your left thumb, and it drops, or you strip it, then you insert a new mag with your left hand.

Can't do that while operating the bolt with your left hand.

Also locking the bolt open during unloading is done by using the left thumb on the bolt catch just behind the Mag Well.

All your mag handling is done with your left hand, it is a problem to have to do the bolt manipulation as well. Strong hand runs the bolt, trigger and safety. Support hand drops and reloads magazines and the bolt latch.

Other than the location of the mag catch and location of the bolt latch, it runs just like a Mini.

Randy
I see. Your issues are quite understandable, after being explained, and thank you for taking the time. Noted that the PC has reversible bolt handle, and mag release button, which is nice. There are also "extended" versions of both. In my experience, sometimes this can be too much of an ostensibly good thing, as such units that go even a little too far can cause problems. Sometimes less is more.

Living in a 4-season AO, I sometimes install "extended" controls which are just "extended" enough to allow manipulation while wearing winter gloves, and no more. Others may not have this climate-related issue.

Pity the PC carbine cannot be better-configured for true ambidextrous use, although this seems to be changing for the better in the aftermarket. Perhaps there are aftermarket items that might serve. I'd like to have a PC in .45 ACP, or perhaps 10mm, if it was ever offered. .30 Carbine would be nice, too.

Long ago, I devised ambi controls for the mag release and safety on my DSA StG 58A FAL, and so I have mitigated the issues you have encountered with your similar PC. Before doing so, I encountered issues similar to yours with my FAL. On my ARs, I always set them up for ambidextrous use.

Sure it costs more, but one never knows when one will need to shoot "weak-side".

Submitted with all respect.

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Old 07-19-2020, 23:15   #50
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Originally Posted by r80rt View Post
Eye sight is a strange thing, closer to my eye works best for me with a red dot or scope, It 's hard to recommend anything. What works best for me is bass ackwards for other people.You have to experiment a bit to find what you need.
Yes indeed, sight systems are a very individual thing. We have to use what works for us. I shot my Mini-30 a lot when I first got it in 1989 with iron sights. At first I wasn't in a hurry to get any kind of scope. I initially enjoyed the simplicity of a light carbine with iron sights.

My eyes are older of course than they were then but irons work just fine for me. A scout scope configuration works best for me, but the irons are always there if I need them. And I also have a Burris Fullfield II 2-7x35 for the conventional receiver position. With quick detach rings for all my scopes and decent irons I have all the bases covered.

The idea of having the ability to quickly change from scout scope to receiver mount scope to irons is fairly recent evolution in my thinking of what the ultimate Mini for me should look like. But that's where I have arrived at this time. I'm not really into dots at present, but I could always throw one of those into the mix as well in the future.
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