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stk546 05-06-2020 12:23

Issues with new 584
 
3 Attachment(s)
Hi,

First off I would like to say I am glad to have found this forum. It is a wealth of information.

Less than I year ago I purchased a new mini 14 from my local gun store. In hindsight I should have looked it it much more closely, but excitement over my first rifle and it being a Ruger, it was overlooked.

The first issue was a crooked rear sight. I attempted to remove it to straighten it, but stripped the screw pretty bad. I ended up having to dremel a slot in the screw and removing it with a screwdriver. Not a huge deal as I planned to replace it with a Tech Sight anyway.

Early on I also noticed the front sight post (possibly the whole sight) was slightly canted to the left. It seems to shoot relatively accurately, but I admit I am probably not the greatest shot, did not use a bench rest, and have primarily shot at a makeshift outdoor range on a friends property, at close distances.

Then during all of this time being stuck at home and reading some gas block posts, I looked at the gas block. It seems to be attached unevenly. Could this be why the front sight is canted in the same direction the gas block is tighter on?

Does this fall into the realm of send it back to Ruger, or something I could possibly fix myself, with the right tools?

Attached are a few images.

Thanks.

RJF 05-06-2020 13:51

stk, first of all, Welcome to the forum from Central VA!

Sounds like a trip back to Ruger, but replace the rear sight back to the original, as you'll likely not get your Tech Sights rear sight when it returns: they return factory stock!

Canted front sight is something the factory guys should absolutely fix. The repair folks seem to be far better than the QC folks in making things right. Different shop, different standards...Shipping to (and return) should be free. Just know that any "adds" to your Mini may not come back after fixing.

Sorry you Mini sucks. They are great guns, but some lemons sneak through from time to time (usually at the gas-block area). Often that is easily fixed by the user, but should never have left the factory that way. If I wanted a parts kit, I would have ordered one...

GAMEOVER 05-06-2020 14:31

My 2 cents worth, if the rifle cycles fine I would not mess with the gas block. The front sight is press fit so any adjustment will almost require a factory fix. If you replace the rear sight with a Tech Sights and you can get it sighted in with the front sight I would call it good to go.

sandog 05-06-2020 16:01

Welcome to the forum, stk546.

I wouldn't worry over the front sight being slightly canted, as long as you aren't having to use up all your rear sight windage to get zeroed.

Minis typically come from the factory with the gas block uneven, that's something that you yourself should fix.
We here always tell new Mini owners that the gas should be even, front to back and side to side, and properly torqued.

Tighten in a criss cross pattern to around 30 INCH pounds (not ft lbs).
Some do 28 inch pounds, some do 35, some use auto feeler gauges to get the gap perfect, some use a Torque wrench like the Wheeler Fat Wrench.

I have to admit I just eyeball the gap, and tighten by feel, but I've done a bunch.
Don't overtighten, just a bit more than snug. Check the gas block screws from time to time, if one or more screws tend to loosen, you can put a drop of blue Loctite on the threads.

stk546 05-06-2020 16:43

Thanks for all of the responses so far, and the warm welcome.

Looks like I have some choices to make.

1. Send back to Ruger (I do agree with RJF's response that it should have come correct from the factory).

2. Even out gas block myself, and sight in properly (a bit worried about doing this myself and stripping the screws or messing something else up) If i go with a Wheeler Fat Wrench does it have the correct size bit, or would i need a separate bit?)

3. Leave it as is and sight in properly. (leaning towards this, until or if I decide to add a bushing to keep the brass within the same city).

I will update you all once I have done something. Thanks again.

sandog 05-07-2020 03:23

stk, gas block removal is simple, nothing to screw up, and you should know how to do it.
You'll need to in order to change out the bushing if your Mini does sling brass a long ways.
Things you should know to be able to maintain your Mini at a minimum are gas block maintenance, and removing the extractor and firing pin.

Make sure you cock the rifle ( and then put the safety on) before unhooking the trigger guard for take down. Failure to cock it first can lead to bending the trigger guard so it no longer has the proper curve or tension to snap back into place.
Putting the safety on ensures you don't accidentally pull the trigger, which would allow the hammer to slam forward with no bolt or firing pin to slow it down.
If you are going to take out the bolt for cleaning, first remove the bolt stop plate and bolt stop ( and don't lose the bolt stop spring and plunger). Removing the bolt stop makes taking out the bolt much easier.

Take care when cleaning the barrel, as it can't be cleaned from the breech. Use a brass muzzle guide on the rod, or use a pull thru cable like the Otis so you don't damage the crown and first few inches of rifling.

When reassembling, make sure the little tip on the guide rod ( the rod that goes inside the recoil spring) is UP, towards the barrel and handguard. Putting the guide rod in so the tip is down away from the barrel will result in a Mini that cycles very sluggishly or not at all.
https://i.imgur.com/twtGh79h.jpg?1


A 195 series Mini I bought used launched the brass 45 YARDS.
It not only went into the next county, it actually went into the next state.
When I was working in the Bakken oil field, I had a place to shoot outside Sydney, Montana. The old gravel pit was right at the state line, and I walked over to North Dakota to pick up my brass.

That was some excessive gas, and wasn't helping accuracy. Some newer Minis have decent ejection, maybe you won't need to do anything. If it "only" throws brass 20 feet, I wouldn't mess with it, but 8 - 12 feet would be better.

If you are still stuck at home, and area ranges are closed, now might be a good time to send the Mini back to Ruger to make them fix that front sight.
They are likely to say the gas block is "within spec" and not do anything to straighten it, since they seem to be O.K. with sending them out uneven anyway.

I take it you haven't got out to shoot it yet, but I'd try to put some rounds through it before sending it back. It would suck to get it back with a straight front sight, then shoot it for the first time and find out something else is wrong, and then you have to send it back to Ruger again.

stk546 05-07-2020 07:49

Sandog,

Thanks for the tips and the reassurance that gas block removal isn't too difficult.

I have shot it a few times, and it hits what I and whoever else i have let shoot it aim at, but it was either at a relatively short indoor range, or a makeshift outdoor range at my buddies place at no more than 50 yards. I have just never tried to get super accurate with it at long ranges from a bench rest, so I was paranoid that the canted sight would affect this.

After every trip I did take it down for cleaning, using pretty much the same steps you listed. Hardest part so far is getting the bolt back in, but I got that down now.

I have not removed the firing pin or extractor but I figure at some point I should do this for cleaning, so again your tips are helpful.

Can't say for sure exactly how far it throws the brass but it seems pretty far. I will pay more attention next trip. Pretty crazy how far the one you had threw brass!

Based on your and other's detailed responses, I think I will take it out a few more times before I think about sending it back in. See just how accurate or inaccurate it is at longer ranges, with sight adjustment.

RJF 05-07-2020 12:31

stk, Sandog is the Jedi on most all things Mini.

Keep in mind your Mini will generally tend to increase its eject distance as it breaks in. My Mini-14 Tactical (16.1" barrel) started out at about 10-12' from a standing position to 25-30' from a prone position. In the course of 100-200 rounds... Not a particularly big deal for me since I shoot on my own property and use a metal detector after a shoot-fest to police up all of my brass. When they're visiting, I pay my nephew's son 1 a casing for what he polices up, then subtract 1 for each casing I find with the metal detector. Caliber doesn't matter. Teaches "attention to detail", but pretty soon, I'm probably going to do a body search on him to make sure he doesn't pack "extras"...;)

stk546 05-07-2020 13:16

RJF,

Sandog has given me a great info so far. I am very grateful to him and you all.

Very interesting about the brass ejection getting worse over time. I have put around 500 rounds through it but honestly haven't payed enough attention to notice it changing. I just accepted it as a part of being a mini owner. Now I am curious just how far it is throwing them. Another thing to pay attention to next trip!

kwg020 05-07-2020 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJF (Post 1624090)
stk, Sandog is the Jedi on most all things Mini.

Keep in mind your Mini will generally tend to increase its eject distance as it breaks in. My Mini-14 Tactical (16.1" barrel) started out at about 10-12' from a standing position to 25-30' from a prone position. In the course of 100-200 rounds... Not a particularly big deal for me since I shoot on my own property and use a metal detector after a shoot-fest to police up all of my brass. When they're visiting, I pay my nephew's son 1 a casing for what he polices up, then subtract 1 for each casing I find with the metal detector. Caliber doesn't matter. Teaches "attention to detail", but pretty soon, I'm probably going to do a body search on him to make sure he doesn't pack "extras"...;)

You mean like we had to do back in the 1970's if we wanted some extra range time ???

kwg

kwg020 05-07-2020 15:00

stk546
Or, you can do like me and use spray carburetor cleaner and hose the bolt down while it's still in the rifle. I guess I like shooting and not so much the cleaning portion.

kwg

sandog 05-07-2020 16:42

The new Mini will eject farther as it breaks in, as parts are "wearing in" to each other, and the carbine will take less energy to operate.
Over a longer period of time, your Mini will eject farther as the gas bushing is getting flame cut with each shot, essentially making it a bigger orifice than what you started with.

When you notice ejection getting excessive, time to pop in a new bushing.

stk546 05-07-2020 18:21

OK, good to know about the bushing wearing out.

Right now I like cleaning and taking it apart after every trip, but I imagine with the time and experience some of you have (kwg020) it might get old.

sandog 05-07-2020 18:49

I used to take my Mini apart for a good cleaning more often, and "quick clean" it more often. Now it gets cleaned maybe 3-4 times a year max.

I found copper fouling to be more of an issue with the 5.56mm, and an occasional cleaning to remove copper would restore accuracy.
With the 7.62 x 39 I haven't found copper fouling to be an issue.

Mini's run pretty clean, I could probably only do a good cleaning once a year or once every two years, and it would run fine.
I've also found that having the gas parts Cerakoted makes cleanup easier.
Fouling has a harder time sticking to Cerakote than it does to bare metal.
Blued parts, and stainless parts, both Cerakoted.
https://i.imgur.com/WpC0DgYh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/X8q67H3h.jpg

stk546 05-07-2020 21:37

Seems like the Cerakote also reduces the wear marks too?

Timberdog 05-08-2020 01:47

Reading all this I was wondering if the firing pin and extractor can be a problem. I must be lucky because my Mini 14 came from Wal-Mart as a gift from my wife and I'm sure no one looked it over. Other then a couple of screws getting loose when new it is fine. Gas block even etc. Shoots good, ejects about 20' like it always did. 583 series. I have well over 1k rounds through it so far and no modifications.
I would send it back to Ruger just to make it right. Good luck with your rifle.

sandog 05-08-2020 05:08

stk. you'll still get wear marks with Cerakote where metal rubs metal. But where it looks like the Cerakote has rubbed off, there is still some Cerakote there, it is burnished to a high sheen. So it will reduce wear on parts, but you'll still have wear marks here and there.

Timberdog, the firing pin and extractor are really rugged and rarely fail.
The likelihood of the extractor failing is increased by the use of steel case ammo, as steel doesn't contract as much as brass just after firing.
The likelihood is the firing pin failing is increased by guys that install a heavier hammer spring in the hopes of making ignition better when using deeper seated Berdan primers found in Russian steel case ammo.

It's a bit of a pain to get the extractor out, but you have to do that in order to get the firing pin out. It's a good idea to clean out the channel the pin rides in when you do a deep clean. Although I have never found a lot of crud in there like you would in an AR, the Mini stays pretty clean at the action.

I just like to be self sufficient. If I got a chipped extractor or a broken firing pin, I can have it fixed in 30 minutes without having to box up my Mini and send it back to Ruger.
In bad times like SHTF, you're not going to be able to ship your gun back to the factory, and it's not likely a local gunsmith is going to have parts for a Mini lying around.
https://www.rugerforum.net/threads/h.../#post-4196277

Timberdog 05-09-2020 03:36

Thanks Sandog. I don't shoot steel case so I won't sweat it. I agree with what your saying, spare parts and self reliance are good if the SHTF.

stk546 05-09-2020 09:08

Definitely makes sense to learn how to do all this stuff ourselves.

Gearhead Jim 05-10-2020 20:03

Regarding the uneven gas block-

My 580 came with gas block gaps that were uneven front to back, on both sides- more gap at one end than at the other end.

It shot pretty well.
When a well-known gunsmith worked on it and installed a smaller gas bushing, it came back with the uneven gap still there even though he had obviously removed and reinstalled it.
Shoots even better now.

It appears that the top and bottom edges were cast or machined slightly off-true. "Fixing" that would require machining maybe .020 off of the almost-mating flats of the two pieces, the gap would be more even but also larger. If the screws are properly torqued, it doesn't seem to cause a problem. But looks junky.

stk546 05-11-2020 07:57

Interesting Gearhead Jim. I think I will leave well enough alone for now until I decide to replace the bushing.

I guess I should be thankful that the rifle cycles fine and seems to shoot well.

You guys are all an amazing wealth of information and I am here to stay!

stk546 06-11-2020 08:30

Just an update. Been stuck working at home for a few months now and got bored, so I contacted Ruger and sent them the same pictures I posted. After a day or two I got a reply back.

"Unfortunately these issues are common. If you have any other questions please let me know."

Not sure what to make of that but I guess it means my rifle is ok, in Ruger's eyes?

On a second note, I ordered an Ultimak rail which is backordered, a Burris Fastfire Protector mount (already got it), and a Fast Fire 3 from Optics Planet (says it won't ship until 7/24). I am a generally patient person and I know it will be worth the wait! Pretty excited.

sandog 06-11-2020 15:28

Sounds like you'll have an outstanding Mini when you get those parts in. Those that have the Ultimak/Fastfire set up wouldn't have it any other way.
I bought my first Fastfire from Optics Planet, the last couple I've bought from Amazon.
About $30 cheaper and at my door in 4 days.

stk546 06-11-2020 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandog (Post 1633448)
Sounds like you'll have an outstanding Mini when you get those parts in. Those that have the Ultimak/Fastfire set up wouldn't have it any other way.
I bought my first Fastfire from Optics Planet, the last couple I've bought from Amazon.
About $30 cheaper and at my door in 4 days.

I checked there first. It is currently unavailable.

Gray 06-12-2020 17:28

STK,
Welcome to the forum!
About that crooked sight, I had one too. I “ fixed” it with a file. Since it was crooked and too thick anyway, I took the advice of COSteve and “straightened” it and thinned the sight to National Match specs with a flat file. Cold blued the exposed metal. My iron sight accuracy at 100 yards was greatly improved.
Next I installed the Tech Sight with the inserts ( old guy). My initial disappointment in my Mini 14 300 BLK combined with a few tools resulted in a fine shooter. When you reinstall your gas block, don’t forget to torque the screws. A Fat Wrench from Wheeler is invaluable for putting stuff back together properly.


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