Question Failure to extract - Shooting Sports Forum


Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 family of rifles

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Old 12-16-2019, 09:25   #1
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Failure to extract

I have a brand new 584 series ruger mini 14.
I had about 300 rounds through it and Iím having shell getting stuck on extractor issues. First 50 rounds did not have this issue but I think it developed this malfunction over time.
From a careful analysis, I found that the round is getting pulled from the chamber with no issues. However when it is pulled, it does not make solid contact with the ejector. In mini14 ejector is also a part of bolt stop assembly.
The round head should make a solid center contact with the ejector in the rear and that impact should make the round to fly out from the extractor that is holding the round.
Upon closely looking the bolt and ejector working, I found out there is a significant slop and tolerance issues between the ejector which is bolt stop assembly and the slot in the bolt.
Look at the photos and youíll see the gap in the bolt (the missing pie section of the round bolt) has much more space than the ejector part and the ejectorís location varies up and down within the pie section of the bolt.
When I press the plunger(the bolt stop button) the ejector tends to fit on upper part of the bolt pie section and that makes a solid contact with the back of the cartridge thus making the shell to fly out correctly. However a lot of times the ejector does not stay on the upper part of the bolt pie section and slops down. When it is down, the space created between the bolt and the ejector causes a side hit not a solid hit on the shot cartridge shell and does not have enough impact to get that shell and extractor to break the link. Then the stove piping happens where the bolt will close with the shell stuck.
When I try to free up the shell, I have to literally use my fingers to get that shell free up from the extractor then throw the shell out then the bolt closes.
Because the bolt is not closed from the all the way rear and it is closed at half point, it does not have enough momentum to put the next round in the correct chamber and causes Failure to Fire. So this Failure to Eject (FTE) causes the next round to Failure to Fire(FTF).
I think the ejector head which is part of bolt stop assembly is ground down too much. It should been fatter to accommodate that space that the bolt has.
This is pretty unreliable weapon so far because of this FTE and FTF in preliminary stage. I will send an email to ruger about this issue. I already ordered the Ejector Bolt Stop assembly from midway and plan to swap it out to see if the issue will continue. Disappointed so far.Click image for larger version

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Old 12-16-2019, 10:38   #2
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Just send it back, they'll fix it.
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Old 12-16-2019, 12:32   #3
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If you haven't already done it, make sure the action and the barrel are clean and lubed well. But, you seem like the kind of guy who knows what he is doing.

You have a legitimate issue that Ruger needs to address. Yes, you could get an ejector from Ruger and install it yourself but it's a new rifle and Ruger needs to fix it. If they don't have to do anything with it to get it right, they don't know where the issues are.

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Old 12-16-2019, 15:59   #4
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Let's slow down just a bit on the "just let Ruger fix it" train. The OP has added a barrel stabilizer, and like any other aftermarket part, the OP will need to remove that before he sends the rifle back to Ruger.

First, that barrel stabilizer also prompts me to ask if he's also installed an aftermarket gas port bushing, and or a shock buffer behind the slide.

A smaller gas port bushing will reduce slide/bolt velocity, which is not a bad thing in the overgassed Mini 14 - right up until it's under gassed. The later ejector-and-bolt-stop Mini 14s are very ejection dependent on slide/bolt velocity. With the stock gas port bushing installed, they tend to launch cases into the next county and an aftermarket gas port bushing can eliminate excessive gas and resulting excessive slide velocity. However, if it has an aftermarket gas port bushing it might be one step *too* small and the rifle may be under gassed.

A shock buffer will reduce the slide/bolt over run and in the process reduce the distance the ejector/bolt stop will drive the base of the case on ejection. I don't have a 584 series, but I do have a 187 series with the bolt stop/ejector and it comes out in front of the bolt face well over 1/4". And that's with a shock buffer installed.



The potential for something causing the slide to not run all the way back prompts me to suggest the OP check to see that the recoil spring and guide are both in good shape, and properly installed.

Once we've clarified what parts are actually in the gun and that the factory parts are working as advertised, we can then see if perhaps there's a reason it suddenly stopped ejecting.

FWIW, sending a firearm back to Ruger is a major PITA. You have to get an RMA, then find a box and drop it off with UPS or Fed Ex - whoever they are using at the moment - and then you wait a couple weeks for them to get too it, and then you wait another week for them to ship it back to you. Then more often than not the second stringer who worked on it didn't actually fix it, so it has to go back to Ruger so that they can then escalate it to a supervisor who will fix the issue. By that time you've got about 6 weeks invested in the process.
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Old 12-16-2019, 22:17   #5
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Thanks for the replies
Yes, I cleaned it thoroughly to make sure it wasnít a gunk that was causing this.
I contacted Ruger and Ruger will send me a RMA number. But as the others pointed out, this could be a painful process to get the local FFL involved to ship my firearm.

Accu-strut and ASI gas block will need to come off before I ship it to Ruger.

I suspected the gas pressure too for the slide not cycling all the way back. I took the buffer out and tweaked the adjustable gas block. So I cranked it all the way up and all the way down to find the issue. I found that with full open, the round flys 30 feet away but sometimes the round got stuck on the extractor. With fully closed, the slide did not cycle and I had to cycle it. The shell still got stuck to the extractor with my hand cycling. It seems that the position of the ejector from the bolt slide stop was moving around and causing the slide to eject inconsistently. As I said in the earlier post, the shell will 100% fly out when the ejector is pushed upward right against the bolt pie portion. Most times itís resting on the downward.

I will update as soon as I change out the ejector part. Then I will try with lower gas pressure setting so I donít damage the ejector tip with the new part.

If that doesnít work, I will have to send in the gun.


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Old 12-17-2019, 08:42   #6
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I had the same problem with my 582 SS Ranch. I could clear the jam quickly by pulling back on the op rod to kick out the buggered cartridge case and chamber another round but it was happening every 4th round during a practice match. The second Ruger customer service rep I talked to finally agreed to send me the ejector/bolt stop replacement part rather than me ship the whole rifle that I had thoroughly tricked out with bushing, buffer, strut, shims, etc. I convinced them it would be more economical for the company to send the part rather than they pay for the large cost of shipping the rifle. I agreed to send in the rifle if the part swap didnít fix the problem. It was an easy swap and the replacement ejector was a couple hundredths longer than the original. It looked like a casting rather than a machined part. It has been flawless since.
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Old 12-17-2019, 10:16   #7
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You don't need an FFL to ship it.

I sent a rifle to Ruger for light primer strikes and had it back in two weeks. They paid all shipping.

It's not a pain in the ass.

Do what you wanna.
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Old 12-17-2019, 12:10   #8
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I hope the changing out the bolt stop/ejector would fix the issue like @Hellgate said. I did contact the Ruger Customer Service and the lady on the phone was very kind. She provided me with a pre-paid shipping label and I don't need to go through FFL. I will try it out with the new bolt stop/ejector and if that doesn't fix it, I will send it in. Wish me luck, I will update later
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Old 12-24-2019, 21:32   #9
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Issue was fixed with new ejector


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Old 12-25-2019, 15:52   #10
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I love happy endings!

I've never had this problem with my 189 series Mini-30, but I keep an extra ejector bolt stop and other assorted small parts in my spare parts box. Bought the parts at Midway years ago just in case.
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Old 12-27-2019, 07:49   #11
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Good job!
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Old 12-27-2019, 12:19   #12
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Happy Ending we hope right? We'll see when the non standard gas block and rubber are put back in.
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Old 12-27-2019, 12:28   #13
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Originally Posted by chill1955 View Post
Happy Ending we hope right? We'll see when the non standard gas block and rubber are put back in.


I put the plastic buffer back and Iím using ASI Adjustable gas block gen 5. I think part of the issue is that the gas port is open too much and the recoil is so overpowered from the factory. It is so powerful that the shell literally chips away the ejector contact part. I used the adjustable gas block to dial down the gas. Now the shells are going 3-5 feet instead of 30 feet. I think this will help prolong the life of the ejector. So far no issues.


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Old 12-27-2019, 13:17   #14
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No matter how fast and efficient warranty work on any product is, its still a pain. Glad this worked out well for you.
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Old 01-19-2020, 22:01   #15
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Failure to extract

Bad news, Issue came back in about 200 rounds after new ejector. I took the new ejector out and took a look at it and itís been chipped and burred. I have side to side comparison with the new part in the pic.
The stove piping is back and it happens every once in 10 rounds. I knew it was not gas block issue because I have adjustable gas block and it works as advertised with the screw that adjusts how far the brass is thrown off to.

When I took it apart, I noticed the bolt had a hole. I am not sure if the hole was there before or not.
I really wanted to like this gun but now itís giving me doubts that I should have gone with AR...
Fortunately Ruger customer service was very good so far and sent me pre-paid shipping label. I took all the accessories off today including accu-strut, adjustable gas block, and buffer. Took me a while but I got it to factory default and sent it off to Ruger. I hope they fix my limited edition 584 mini 14 so I can keep this gun Click image for larger version

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Old 01-20-2020, 04:25   #16
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What kind of ammo are you using?
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:08   #17
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The hole in the bolt just doesn’t look right.
Are the cases actually sticking up like a stoce’s pipe or are they bridging the action (jammed between the bolt and the edge of the chamber?
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:06   #18
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Originally Posted by 2rangers View Post
What kind of ammo are you using?


Mostly WOLF performance steel cases 223 because I donít reload. I tried Finocci and same issues tho


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Old 01-20-2020, 08:11   #19
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Originally Posted by Hellgate View Post
The hole in the bolt just doesnít look right.
Are the cases actually sticking up like a stoceís pipe or are they bridging the action (jammed between the bolt and the edge of the chamber?


The cases are stuck to the extractor and not ejecting properly. I got another pic from another thread that looks like the same failure I am getting. Click image for larger version

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Itís interesting that the hole in the bolt is pretty common issue now that I researched around. Many had to send their rifles back. I hope Ruger will make it right. The rate of failure to eject went up as I shot more rounds thru the rifle. So when I get it back, Iím going to put 200 rounds through on a range day to see if itís ďpermanentlyĒ fixed or temporarily fixed. I was able to temporarily fix this issue of failure to eject with replacing the ejector but as more rounds are thru the issue came back. The ejector was worn out too when I examined it. It seems to me that itís a fitment issue because the original ejector was too short and not make a right contact with the shell. Then I replaced it and now the ejector is getting chipped off like the old one.


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Old 01-20-2020, 10:04   #20
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Also,
Some rifles simply do not like steel cased ammo. Unless I am in a firefight with nothing else to use, I avoid it like the plague.
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:25   #21
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One other thing, do not slam the bolt home on a round you drop into the chamber that is a no no and will damage extractors. It is easy to forget when a firearm is having issues.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:27   #22
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It looks like a classic short ejector or else the bolt channel for the ejector is not deep enough to let the ejector catch the edge of the cartridge to kick it out of the way.
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Old 01-20-2020, 13:04   #23
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Originally Posted by Hellgate View Post
It looks like a classic short ejector or else the bolt channel for the ejector is not deep enough to let the ejector catch the edge of the cartridge to kick it out of the way.


This is exactly my first original assessment so I got the new factory ejector from Midway then the issue went away. After 200 rounds later, the FTE issue comes back and the end part of ejector catch got chipped and burred when I examined it. Then I discovered a hole on the bolt too. Itís very confusing and I am not sure what is the real issue here so I am sending it back to Ruger


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Old 01-20-2020, 13:05   #24
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Originally Posted by chill1955 View Post
One other thing, do not slam the bolt home on a round you drop into the chamber that is a no no and will damage extractors. It is easy to forget when a firearm is having issues.


If I donít rack it properly and hard the round will have FTF failure to fire because the round does not go into chamber all the way and the firing pin does light strike on the primer.


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Old 01-20-2020, 13:06   #25
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Originally Posted by Bepe View Post
Bolt needs replacement. Have to go back to Ruger.

I always put a swipe of grease in the ejector channel. Also a dab on the tip of the ejector. Wouldn't think both parts riding against each other dry would be a good thing.

Just my method of operation.

Bepe


I lubed that action like itís a wet kitten and but the FTE issue continues on so itís not a lube issue. More like tolerance issue


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