The steel cased ammo again... - Page 2 - Shooting Sports Forum


Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 family of rifles

Like Tree139Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-21-2019, 13:02   #26
Full Member
 
Mr.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: PRK
Posts: 184
That's a rifle straight out of the bowels of hell right there - you'll have to say 99 "John Moses Browning's" later tonight in repentance!
__________________
I support the right to arm bears.

No Step On Snek!
Mr.T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2019, 23:44   #27
Glass Half-Full Member
 
Beck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Suddenly
Posts: 1,372
I'm all for continuing to beat this dead horse. I haven't seen one post yet that presents any credible evidence for not using steel case in a broad sense, as in no steel case at all, as if they're all the same regardless of brand or type within a brand.

We're still at the same point. There is good and bad steel case, and there is good and bad brass case. I'm tired and it's time for bed... but I'll be back.

Just one thought I'll leave you with before I go for tonight. We have to up our game and be smarter then anti-gun people who also ignore science and spread gun myths based on hysteria. We can't be critical of their ant-gun views if we ignore physics... mechanics, thermodynamics, ballistics, same as they ignore them.
__________________
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
John 15:13
Beck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2019, 06:55   #28
Full Member
 
Hellgate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Orygun
Posts: 641
Beck,
You can’t use facts and logic to win an argument with someone who only has an emotional basis for argument.
__________________
Hellgate

With over 15 revolvers I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball.

Gun control=OSHA for criminals

NRA-Life
SASS#3302L/Regulator
Hellgate is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 06-22-2019, 11:18   #29
Full Member
 
Walkenbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SW Washington
Posts: 920
"Reality first, ideology second" is what I grew up with.

My fallback on the steel case ammo is that is was designed for rifles with hard chrome bores. Certainly steel case ammo has evolved over time with different coatings. You would wonder why the different coating if there is no problem with the original lacquer coating. Shot 1 box of Sellier & Belloit, man that stuff stunk.
40nascar likes this.
__________________
L8R
W B

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

All Rights Reserved
Walkenbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2019, 22:14   #30
Glass Half-Full Member
 
Beck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Suddenly
Posts: 1,372
Originally Posted by Hellgate View Post
Beck,
You canít use facts and logic to win an argument with someone who only has an emotional basis for argument.
Yeah, I know what you're saying, but nah, my objective isn't for me to win, but for all of us to win. We all win when people learn through the free exchange of ideas. The 1st Amendment is as important to me as the 2nd. We're better gun owners and better citizens when we can reason together. Gun owners wear a lot of hats... and we should to be good, well-rounded, knowledgeable gun owners. And most people who care enough to know participate in forums like these, so we're among our own kind. We're among like-minded friends even when we disagree.
__________________
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
John 15:13
Beck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2019, 18:21   #31
Glass Half-Full Member
 
Beck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Suddenly
Posts: 1,372
Took me a while to make this reply less wordy than it could be. I thought the info should be out here somewhere in cyberland for people having the same questions.

Back to the Lucky Gunner test. It was a good test, but they left some things out and got a few things wrong. I trust everyone read it as carefully as I did.

I'm glad Jim posted it, even though he misinterpreted some of the data. Doesn't make him a bad person. It just gives us an opportunity to continue the discussion so we all leave the table having learned things we didn't know before. That's what I mean by we all win.

The Lucky Gunner piece was obviously written by more than one person and then the final edit before publication, which is normal for articles like that. It contradicts itself in a few places.

The authors rightly acknowledge how the pace of firing and the resultant heat contributed to extreme barrel wear. At least someone among those contributing to the article understood that. Yet toward the end of the article it concludes that someone shooting steel case would need a new barrel every 5000 rounds, which is inconsistent with their previous statements, and inconsistent with basic physics as it relates to heat.

Sure, a rifle would need a new barrel by 5000 rounds if the person shot that rifle at the pace they did in the test with that particular ammo, but otherwise... no.

Many of us know people who've surpassed 5,000 rounds in their ARs, Minis, AKs, etc, with bi-metal bullets, and their barrels are still good. It's because they surpassed the 5,000 round mark or the 10,000 round mark over a period of several years, not several hours in 2 or 3 days.

It was the acknowledged effect of heat that accelerated wear of the barrels in the test. That includes the AR shooting the Federal brass case/copper jacketed bullets. It was not without significant wear, just not as worn as the ARs shooting steel case.

The Tula is another story. It failed in many more ways. But rejecting something like Silver Bear steel case because Tula sucks has no logic behind it. With all the choices out there we can't put all steel case brands and types in one bucket and all brass case in another. We hear people proclaim "Steel case shoots dirtier." That all depends. In the Lucky Gunner test the Federal brass case shot dirtier than the steel case. My Red Army Standard 124 GR FMJBT steel case shoots cleaner in my Mini-30 than Winchester whitebox brass case. The gas system stays clean regardless because it's a Mini not an AR.

The pace of the lucky gunner test exceeded that of an intense prolonged combat engagement. Based on other tests I've seen by Rock Island Arsenal and declassified US Military documents, I doubt the Lucky Gunner participants were able to keep their barrels under 750 degrees F as was claimed.

750 degrees is a lot of heat... not good for a barrel to sustain while firing, but their barrels likely surpassed 1000 degrees, and more probably north of 1200 degrees F for significant periods of time. They reported that they shot their ARs until they were too hot to hold without injury to the shooters.

In the short summery video from Lucky Gunner I counted one participant firing 2 rounds per second, and another firing 5 rounds per second. They fired 300 rounds at a time (ten 30-rnd magazine dumps at a grueling pace). Of course those barrels were toast.

In a Rock Island Arsenal study on M16 barrel temperatures they found that firing 280 rounds at 4 rounds per second through Colt M16s produced barrel temperatures approaching 1300 degrees F. ***DO THE MATH*** In the Rock Island Arsenal study they placed sensors at ten points along the length of the barrel. Barrel temps vary depending on what section of the barrel is measured. The hottest part on an AR/M16 is 4 to 6 inches forward the breech face. The coolest part is in the chamber. From the peak hot spot the temperature gradually drops all the way out to the front sight, which acts as a heatsink. The temperature rises again beyond the front sight out to the muzzle.

I don't know how they measured barrel temperature in the Lucky Gunner test. They didn't say. That's one very important bit of information that was omitted. There was a vague reference made to a Navy test of the MK18 10.5" CQBR with regard to methodology used for temperatures and rate of fire. But the 10.5" barrel of an MK18 runs cooler for a couple reasons. It looses about 500 fps and less powder burns within the barrel due to the shorter length.

Since a picture paints a thousand words, here's a visual from the Rock Island M16 Barrel Temperature test. You can see that firing 280 rounds of M193, even at only 1 round per second brings barrel temps well above 1100 degrees F. Temps don't drop close to 750 degrees until the front sight area. Then they rise again. That's 1 round per second. The Lucky Gunner participants were shooting multiple rounds per second.

In the table below the numbers across the top are inches from the breech face. 1" is in the chamber. 4T is 4 inches into the barrel on top of barrel. 4B is 4 inches into the barrel on bottom of barrel... and so forth and so on to 19" near the muzzle.





There's another interesting Rock Island Arsenal test, "Fire to Destruction of 5.56mm M4A1 Carbine and M16A2 Rifle Barrels." In that test they destroyed the barrel on an M16A2 in approximately 3 minutes firing about 500 rounds of M193. The barrel experienced catastrophic failure at roughly 1600 degrees F. The barrel was visibly drooping, bulging in several places, and split open in the area of peak temperature.

My purpose in citing that test is this: For those who find it difficult getting their heads around the pace of fire and the role of heat from the Lucky Gunner test, it should be much easier to get my point from the Rock Island Fire to Destruction test. Here's a nice visual from that test. As you can see the M4s didn't fair much better than the M16A2:



If you use the same logic as some are with the Lucky Gunner test you would have to conclude that a barrel is only good for 500 rounds regardless of rate and pace of fire even with standard M193 rounds. Because if you're ignoring the role of heat in the Lucky Gunner test, to be consistent you would also have to ignore the role of heat in the Rock Island Fire to Destruction test. Of course we all agree the notion that an M16 barrel only has a service life of 500 rounds under normal use is absurd.

Barrels will eventually wear under normal use regardless of ammo type, but it takes a loooong time... bi-metal bullets or copper alloy, doesn't matter. Nothing lasts forever here on Earth. Extended periods of excessive heat will make barrels wear many times faster.

We can conclude that the two ARs shooting those particular brands of steel case wore the barrels faster than the Federal when the guns were being abused at excessive sustained temperatures. But we can't translate those results to how a barrel would wear with the same ammunition and same number of rounds fired over a period of years or even months.

We can't simulate long term barrel wear with short-term tests in normal environments. That's because of heat. We fight heat in every industry because heat kills mechanical things. A lot of time and money is thrown into research to find ways to reduce heat. The main processor in your laptop or PC running at a given clock speed in GHz can run for many years without issue. Take the heatsink off of it and the heat it generates will destroy it in minutes if not seconds.

No Marine or soldier, even in a battle as intense as First Fallujah 2004 would abuse his weapon in the way they did in the Lucky Gunner test. The US Military does not teach people to spray and pray as fast as they can pull the trigger until their M16 or M4 fails. They learn to use their weapons within known parameters and limitations. They're encouraged to take well placed shots in semi-auto mode with the objective of taking out adversaries. Those weapons have a long service life with appropriate TLC.

Used within those parameters, which are combat level parameters, some brands of steel case with bi-metal jacketed bullets will be nearly as kind to your barrel as copper alloy jacketed bullets. The difference is insignificant. And again the difference depends on the design of a given bi-metal bullet. Copper alloy jackets aren't all the same hardness either. At any rate you'd be hard pressed to shoot out a barrel and have to replace it in your lifetime.

The exceptions would be people who are unusually prolific shooters. It's their main activity, their favorite hobby, perhaps their only hobby. Well yeah, those folks might have to change a barrel or two in their lifetime. On the other hand, people who shoot that much often have more than one of the same type firearm, so they will never shoot out a barrel if they alternate between those weapons.

If you don't remember anything else remember heat as it relates to wear. And remember to question everything, looking for details that aren't there but should be. Pretty much the same way we should watch national network news. It's the stuff they don't say that can be "Lies of omission" or more often just poor journalism.
Attached Thumbnails
The steel cased ammo again...-m16-b-temps.jpg   The steel cased ammo again...-fire_to_destruction_table_1.jpg  
__________________
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
John 15:13

Last edited by Beck; 06-26-2019 at 12:50.
Beck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2019, 19:11   #32
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: same as before but 'cleaned up' my info
Posts: 7,935
the stinky stuff has been beat out of the horse - but I've got to get in a lick or 2.
first - the Yugoslavian mil-surp brass cased is berdan, corrosive primed. quite good shooting ammo though, accurate and clean. not worth the time and $$ to attempt reloading. it's the only brass cased (and copper alloy jacket bullet) I know of that's corro-primed. made in the '70s, at least the tin I bought for nephew and I to split is. unsure if the sup-ply has dried up,
the no longer available Chinese ammo (I bought some to put back - including 100's rounds of the hardened 'penetrator' rounds} all was corro-primed. this also shoots well, fairly clean also.
these types of ammo must be cleaned soon after firing with some sort of water based cleaner - if even a good drenching with hot water - soapy is better to clean the corrosive residue. myself I use a small spray container of windshield washer fluid to drench the receiver area, flush the barrel and gas pipe. wipe down well then use standard cleaning solvent after as usual.
I'm suspicious some of the European makes may be corrosive primed but not marked as such.
I've shot silver bear - shot well, my nephews favorite for his AK - and had about 1 in 10 ftf. the Yugo and Chinese have been 100% fire. I've also shot the Wolf camo box, steel case and bi-metal bullet. no ftf but dirty - shoots OK. I'm satisfied it isn't corrosive.
well comrades that's my .02. check the post of my 30 in the gallery section, quite sure you've never seen a 30 mounting a bayonet.
40nascar, sandog and Beck like this.
__________________
'the beatings will continue until morale improves'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Marlin 45 carbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 12:43   #33
Glass Half-Full Member
 
Beck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Suddenly
Posts: 1,372
I used some of that Yugo M67 Corrosive Primed brass case in the past as well, but not much... 2 boxes, which is 30 rounds. I've got 15 rounds left head stamped 1974.

The Chinese Norinco is non corrosive... at least from the mid 1980s and newer. That's mostly what I used to shoot back in the day. I have several hundred rounds left in the silver box, yellow box, and the most recent red box marketed through a Canadian company. Kind of embarrassing that Canada still imports Norinco ammo from China, but Americans can't. I was hoping GW Bush would reverse that when he was president, but his dad started it, and Bill Clinton made it permanent.

None of my Eastern European steel case x39 is corrosive. The inside of my 189 Mini-30 barrel is mirror bright with deep grooves... no pitting or anything. Looks like new.
Marlin 45 carbine likes this.
__________________
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
John 15:13

Last edited by Beck; 06-26-2019 at 13:00.
Beck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 13:23   #34
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 294
When it comes to barrel wear, I think the point made by the Lucky Gunner test is that bimetal bullets are able to cause faster barrel wear than gilding metal.

Firing any ammo at a slower pace (lower barrel temperatures) will normally allow the barrel to stay accurate for more rounds. Faster firing, quicker wear.

Slower firing might reduce the difference between the two wear rates (gilding vs bimetal), or might exaggerate it. I haven't seen any data for that. If someone has, please give us a link.

As previously mentioned,
If you shoot a lot then the bimetal will save you more money per year but probably wear out your barrel quicker.
If you shoot only a little, then the bimetal will wear your barrel very slowly but only save you a small amount of money per year.
40nascar likes this.
Gearhead Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 05:11   #35
Full Member
 
sandog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle of Arizona
Posts: 2,913
It's not just about saving a small amount of money a year.
In the case of Silver Bear, I've found a load that shoots as well as, even better than my carefully crafted SST handloads, has 100% ignition with my factory Ruger firing pins, and I don't have to screw around reloading or making sure I pick up all my brass.

It shoots 100% and very accurate in not just one Mini, but all three, and my x39 AR.
And I can get it in a HP or SP loading.
I can afford buying better brass cased ammo (still have about 800 rounds of PPU left from the two cases I bought a few years ago) but it doesn't shoot near as good as the Silver Bear does.
I know some are probably tired of seeing these targets, but this is the kind of accuracy I'm talking about:

The Silver Bear group is the one with the holes ringed in black, shot with the Palmetto x39 AR with 3x Primary Arms Prism scope. No holdover using the BDC, as I wanted to see the actual drop from a 200 yard zero at 400 yards:
sandog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 06:40   #36
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: same as before but 'cleaned up' my info
Posts: 7,935
appears there's around 18" drop in trajectory ?
__________________
'the beatings will continue until morale improves'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Marlin 45 carbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 08:43   #37
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 294
If I found a bimetal load that was reasonably priced and more accurate in my guns than good gilding metal bullets, I'd buy it too.

The conditions with my Mini-14 are different.
Gearhead Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 15:14   #38
Full Member
 
sandog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle of Arizona
Posts: 2,913
Originally Posted by Marlin 45 carbine View Post
appears there's around 18" drop in trajectory ?
3 to 4 feet, depending on the load.
That's a long ways for the x39, but had I used the excellent ACSS reticle on that scope, the hits would have been right on.
40nascar, Beck and Bepe like this.
sandog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2019, 05:07   #39
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: same as before but 'cleaned up' my info
Posts: 7,935
must have used a water heater box or such, hard to scale for measure, but good shooting. I've shot my 30 at 300 yds using the NRA ballistic table with result that tell me a man sized target at that range is in deep kim-shuiee.
sandog and Beck like this.
__________________
'the beatings will continue until morale improves'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Marlin 45 carbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2019, 08:29   #40
Temp Banned!
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Natagua
Posts: 6,258
Originally Posted by sandog View Post
Or this, it has several features that would be deemed "evil' in your state :
Your right about that. But i don't miss that stock. I had one when it was legal in Ca.to have it. It warped over time, so i dont miss it. I much prefer a factory syhthetic.
sandog and tcsafety like this.
40nascar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2019, 04:00   #41
Full Member
 
Mannlicher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Central Florida and Miami
Posts: 389
in over 25 years of shooting commie ammo in my Mini 14s, I have not broken anything.
__________________
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

The Bonnie Blue, may she proudly wave forever
Mannlicher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2019, 01:00   #42
Glass Half-Full Member
 
Beck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Suddenly
Posts: 1,372
Interesting side note. USGI M14 barrels are made of the the same Chromium molybdenum alloy that Mini-14s and Mini-30s are, and with no chrome lining. Lake City made tons of 7.62 NATO M80 with bi-metal bullets from 1957 on. So did many of our NATO allies like Germany, which still does.

In fact it's a lot easier to find Milsurp 7.62 NATO M80 with bi-metal bullets than bullets with copper gilding metal jackets. The two types don't even have different model designations. The only way to tell if your Military M80 has a bi-metal jacket or not is with a magnet.



The U.S. military's barrel life spec for USGI M14s is 15,000 rounds without reference or mention of what type metal is used in the bullet jacket. They don't see it as an issue under normal use.

Another interesting note... all Lake City 7.62x39 was made with bi-metal jacketed bullets and patterned after Lapua's specs. At one time or another Lapua made 7.62x39 with brass and steel case, and either copper jacketed or bi-metal jacketed bullets.

Bi-metal is nothing new. Most militaries in WWII used bullets with Bi-metal jackets and Berdan primers.

There's been this perception out there for a long time that steel case, bi-metal jackets and Berdan primers are some funny communist thing. Truth is the current Berdan primer is a US invention ( Hiram Berdan New York 1868). The Boxer primer is a British invention (Colonel Edward Boxer, Woolwich, England, 1866).

Bi-metal bullets are still used by militaries all over the world. Many would be surprised where and in what calibers they can be found.
Attached Thumbnails
The steel cased ammo again...-lc-7.62-nato.jpg  
jumpluff, curt mini14 and sandog like this.
__________________
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
John 15:13

Last edited by Beck; 07-14-2019 at 06:09.
Beck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2019, 17:36   #43
Full Member
 
Turkeestalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Cottleville, MO
Posts: 7,049
No authority here, but I've fed far more steel than brass to my Mini 30 with no ill effect.

Interesting side note...

I picked up one of the Century Arms CIA 9s, (Uzi wannabe), a few years back.
Not something I would've looked twice at, but my youngest had already drooled all over it and the shop guy sold it to me for $400, that's just over half of what I've seen all of them I've looked at since, go for.

He told me that the previous owner had been finding brass shavings in the cavernous receiver, no issues beyond, but was shaving brass cases and leaving it in the receiver.
All that I've ever fed it is the Winchester steel cased bulk stuff, never any hiccups, or any shavings, and trust me, the youngest has fed it a bunch.
curt mini14, sandog and tcsafety like this.
Turkeestalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2019, 01:08   #44
Full Member
 
hoagie90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 135
Lot of interesting information here. Looks like I will be buying some cheaper steel cased ammo to test

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk
curt mini14 and sandog like this.
hoagie90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2019, 05:13   #45
Full Member
 
sandog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle of Arizona
Posts: 2,913
Hoagie, all of it is cheap, just some better than others.
Tula and Wolf are at the bottom of the heap, but almost every store in America stocks some. Those companies (same company ?) are much better at marketing than they are at making ammo.
Avoid those and try any of the Bears, Red Army ( or Golden Tiger, same as Red Army), or MFS.

Geco is a brass cased, reloadable round that you can buy online for about a buck a box more than what steel case ammo would cost you in a local store.
Fiocchi is another one that is a low cost brass case round, but although accurate, I'd pass on those, as velocity was a full 400 fps. lower when I tested them.
They were chronographed at 2000, when all the other loads were 2400 to 2550.
sandog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 00:09   #46
Full Member
 
Sparkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 1,380
Question why if you reload would you buy ammo that can not be reloaded?
I have never bought steel for any weapon. I have fired it in friends weapons at the range and was not impressed. I want to use the same POI not change settings every time cause I have different ammo. Another reason factory ammo is not the best choice.
__________________
Socialism is a disease of the affluent perpetrated on others to control life and liberty.
Sparkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 04:28   #47
Full Member
 
sandog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle of Arizona
Posts: 2,913
Having to change your sights because you have to change ammo holds true for brass case as well as steel.
That's one of the things I like about reloading. Once I find a load that shoot great, I can crank out more of them, and leave my sights where they were.

But what if you can't get your favorite bullet anymore, and have to buy one that is similar, but not quite the same ? And what if you can't get your favorite primer anymore, and have to stock up on a different one ?
Well, your favorite load might not be quite the same, and you'll have to do a slight POI change.

You could say, well, I'll just buy large quantities of my favorite components so I'll never run out. Probably a good thing to do given that at least half the country are flaming liberals, and there might be restrictions placed on ammo or reloading components down the road.

But the same could also be said about factory ammo, whether brass or steel.
Buy a few cases of it, and you won't run out of it and have to change your sights again.

Silver Bear is one steel case round (non reloadable) that I will buy in mass quantities, even though I am a reloader.
Why ? because it is one brand that is more consistent and accurate (out of all my Mini-30's at least) than my carefully crafted, hand weighed reloads with Hornady SST or Nosler Varmeggedon bullets.

I'll continue to shoot my reloads as I have close to 2,000 pieces of good PPU brass, but my SHTF stash will be Silver Bear HP.
curt mini14 and tcsafety like this.
sandog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 04:32   #48
Full Member
 
hoagie90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 135
And to be frank, if you're afraid, or don't ever want to mess with your POI/sights/optics, then you should probably just give up shooting altogether.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk
tcsafety likes this.
hoagie90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 08:30   #49
Full Member
 
Sparkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 1,380
Originally Posted by hoagie90 View Post
And to be frank, if you're afraid, or don't ever want to mess with your POI/sights/optics, then you should probably just give up shooting altogether.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk
Well frank I really didn't ask or need your opinion.
__________________
Socialism is a disease of the affluent perpetrated on others to control life and liberty.
Sparkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 10:07   #50
Full Member
 
sandog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle of Arizona
Posts: 2,913
I think it's a bit unrealistic to never have to touch your sights/optic.
If I have to take my gas block off for a yearly deep clean, I have to readjust my irons and dot.
Not much, but some.

If I have to change a gas bushing every year or two, depending on how much shooting I've been doing, I'll have to check my zero and readjust.

Heck with a wood stock gun, even a change in the seasons , more or less humidity, can throw things off.

I generally have on hand 3 or 4 different brands or types of ammo, does it all shoot to the same point? No, but it's close enough for range work that I don't readjust when I switch.
It's all "minute of bad guy".

I still have maybe 750 rounds of PPU left. I've since found ammo that shoots better in my Mini's, but it's going to be a while before I shoot it up.
I got a case of Red Army boattail with the latest Mini I bought.
It shoots best in that Mini, and I gave that Mini to my daughter.
She couldn't take the ammo home with her on the plane, so I'll get it to her eventually. In the meantime, I'll shoot some more of it.

I'd love to just order a few cases of Silver Bear and have one ammo to use, but I need to "clean house" and use up some of this other stuff first.
Beck likes this.

Last edited by sandog; 07-18-2019 at 14:12. Reason: fix phone typos
sandog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:05.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All information is copyright by Perfectunion.com unless already under copyright.