I sure wish we had a Pistol Caliber Carbine "sub-forum" - Page 2 - Shooting Sports Forum


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Old 12-23-2019, 12:22   #26
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W.R., I appreciate your comments, and can't say I disagree.

I've had a 92FS since 1994, and I pretty much preferred to follow a personal rule of owning a compatible pistol with what my Army fielded (also have a Colt Model 70 Govt Model I got in 1980).
ARs are where I drew the line...and went with the Mini-14. Commonality of ammo and that's about it! By then, though, my standard issued weapon was the 1911.

I've got plenty of mags for my 92FS - plus several M9 mags. I like it, but it is heavy. But the primary interest is commonality of the platform as my last years in the Army I never had an assigned sidearm. I recalled my pre-deployment training for Desert Storm: I had never encountered an M9 and that is what I deployed with. I never wanted to fall into a situation where I wasn't completely comfortable with the operation and function of a sidearm my life depended on. So I bought my 92FS in 1993/94.

It is a nice shooting iron, but after medical challenges and significant weight and muscle loss, it is generally too heavy for comfort. My Bersa Thunder .380 Combat is perfect for me; the 92FS is a secondary bedside gun.

The CX4 is great for me. It took me a year to finally bite the bullet on it, as it seemed to be a Star Wars gun and I'm a wood/blued kinda guy. It fits my currently small frame perfectly, and would hate to give it up.

So the Ruger PCC is now appealing as it is (currently) going to be legal under VA's proposed commie laws. I hate Striker-fired pistols, so should I get a PCC, the Glock mags will only be for it (not unlike M1 Carbine or Mini-14 mags).

We'll see how this whole commie plan in VA comes out, but if need be, I won't need to give up capabilities, just form: M1 Carbine will lose its bayo lug, some Mini-14s will go to my nephew sooner rather than later (and replaced with a Mini-14 Ranch I have already gotten), the CX4 replaced with a Ruger PCC, my 92FS 17-round mags replaced with 10-rounders. Have been stocking up on 10-round mags for my Minis and M1 Crbine for a while...

Ironically, the net effect should VA's commie rules take effect is an increase in weapons - just some going someplace else while being replaced with ones just as capable.
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Old 12-23-2019, 13:14   #27
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while a Pistol caliber rifle is on my maybe someday list. If you have an SKS, AK47, 30/30 lever rifle, or Mosin Nagant M44 you already have a pistol caliber rifle. Lee molds are twenty dollars a 32 caliber pistol bullet can load .308 and .310 rifles. The Lee 160 and 155gr x39 molds will load the same. You can just tumble lube without the expense of a lube sizer. A 160-grain cast bullet only needs six grains of bullseye powder. You can use any fast pistol or shotgun powder. Bullseye, 2400 and Red dot are my favorites because they are not position sensitive. I shot a lot of cast bullets when Obama made ammo hard to get. Five pounds of powder, some lead, and a few thousand primers if you aren't able to buy ammo can keep you shooting for a long time. And it is a lot of fun to shoot. Here is a good write up that ED Harris wrote on cast bullet loads. Cast Bullet Loads for Military Rifles - Article

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Old 12-23-2019, 14:26   #28
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
No gun is going to please everybody. Otherwise there would only be one gun available.

I have shot nearly 800 rounds thru my PCC 40 now, and find it to be accurate and dependable and since mine is a .40 it is more powerful than a 9MM as well. I will concede that it is heavier than I would like but after 4 days of continuous shooting I got used to it.

I do have Glocks and find them to be about as good a fighting gun as anyone has ever made, simple to operate, accurate enough for the intended purpose and readily available. They are by far the easiest pistol to learn how to shoot.

I have never even seen a CX4 in person and for this post I had to google a picture of one so I knew what I was talking about. They look like they could be a decent urban assault weapon. However they use B92 mags and I could never lower myself to pick up a B92 as I consider them to be heavy, clunky and a PITB to run. Been down the DA SA road and found it to be annoying and I never got good with one, two different trigger pulls was the reason and I have complete disdain for any Decocker now.. Got good with the Glock quickly now I have 4.

They say "there's an ass for every seat," and thus there are guns for everyone.I have been especially surprised at the number of Glock Clones that came out this year.

Like it or not, the Ruger PCC is another Home Run for Ruger, which adds to the long list of guns they've got right.

Randy
I'm with you Randy. I always drank the anti-Glock Koolaid and never gave them a look. The day I picked up the PCC-9 I grabbed a load of used older G19 mags for a song. I figured I might as well get a Glock to accompany the PCC since I was using the Glock adapter and mags..

After grabbing a G19x I was hooked. Easy to shoot....points excellent for me...easy to maintain...light and accurate. Have since bought a G21 and G30s. I've carried a DA/SA Sig for work for 20+ years. Never like the two trigger pulls. We are due for new pistols next year. I've been trying to talk the range instructors into trying the Glock but they are all die hard Sig guys.

Oh well....they don't know what they are missing.
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Old 12-23-2019, 15:18   #29
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So as a Ruger fan boy I have stuck with Ruger pistols. I am a rifleman...not a pistol man. For me the pistol is a weapon of last resort...perhaps a way to stay alive long enough to get to my rifle. I am no competition shooter...but I am pretty proficient with a rifle. I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a pistol.

So in the event you have suffered through the long, boring preamble and are still reading...I pose this question. I adore my Ruger PC Carbines. Like Bepe I have toyed with a G17 since I have now invested in glock mags.

I have not been able to justify the cost for what for me will be a marginal weapon choice at best. Thus far I have talked myself out of it... I am interested in logical and practical reasons why I should reconsider.

Emotional reasons won't do. Although the emotional approach would almost surely work with my weakness for rifles...I just don't get all excited over a pistol. Ok...hit me with your thoughts...pro or con.
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Old 12-23-2019, 20:50   #30
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Awe PCC's are for guys that can't shoot a pistol well. J/K . I bought one but if I had to do it again I would spend the dollars elsewhere but that's just me. Sounds like there is support for a PCC. Yes you can get great velocities out of the .357 and other magnum rounds that match intermediate rifle cartridges out to about 100 yds. But you drive The pistol HP's will be ineffective at closer ranges on game, way over designed expansion velocities. Good study below gives you a snapshot.

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Calibers/Cartridges
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Old 12-24-2019, 05:24   #31
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Originally Posted by chill1955 View Post
Yes you can get great velocities out of the .357 and other magnum rounds that match intermediate rifle cartridges out to about 100 yds. But you drive The pistol HP's will be ineffective at closer ranges on game, way over designed expansion velocities.
Clearly you've never hunted with a 357 Magnum carbine.
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Old 12-24-2019, 05:30   #32
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Less blast
Less flash
Less noise
Less recoil
Less cost to practice
Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun

What would be your intended purpose?

Originally Posted by jumpluff View Post
So as a Ruger fan boy I have stuck with Ruger pistols. I am a rifleman...not a pistol man. For me the pistol is a weapon of last resort...perhaps a way to stay alive long enough to get to my rifle. I am no competition shooter...but I am pretty proficient with a rifle. I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a pistol.

So in the event you have suffered through the long, boring preamble and are still reading...I pose this question. I adore my Ruger PC Carbines. Like Bepe I have toyed with a G17 since I have now invested in glock mags.

I have not been able to justify the cost for what for me will be a marginal weapon choice at best. Thus far I have talked myself out of it... I am interested in logical and practical reasons why I should reconsider.

Emotional reasons won't do. Although the emotional approach would almost surely work with my weakness for rifles...I just don't get all excited over a pistol. Ok...hit me with your thoughts...pro or con.
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Old 12-24-2019, 05:40   #33
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
I have never even seen a CX4 in person and for this post I had to google a picture of one so I knew what I was talking about. They look like they could be a decent urban assault weapon. However they use B92 mags
Beretta currently makes mag adapters for three different pistols and they are supposed to be producing more versions including Glock. There were I believe two different after market companies making them for other pistols as well.

That said, all of mine are set up for Beretta 92 mags because they are cheap as dirt, widely available, and 100% reliable. The Italian 20 round magazines fit the magwell perfectly.
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Old 12-24-2019, 05:55   #34
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Originally Posted by RJF View Post
Did I mention I HATE Glocks???I pretty much hate any Striker-fired pistol...
Glock is the 1982 Toyota Camry of the firearm world
They are utterly outdated and outclassed in every way possible
I'm still amazed people buy them as there are so many better options

If you get the chance, try out some of the many far more modern striker-fired options available today. You might be surprised and find one you like as there are some truly well engineered designs that shoot wonderfully.

Me, I fell in love with the Steyr M series in 9mm and 357
Although I still have a soft spot for and will always own 92's as well as others
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Old 12-24-2019, 05:58   #35
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Originally Posted by jumpluff View Post
So as a Ruger fan boy I have stuck with Ruger pistols. I am a rifleman...not a pistol man. For me the pistol is a weapon of last resort...perhaps a way to stay alive long enough to get to my rifle. I am no competition shooter...but I am pretty proficient with a rifle. I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a pistol.

So in the event you have suffered through the long, boring preamble and are still reading...I pose this question. I adore my Ruger PC Carbines. Like Bepe I have toyed with a G17 since I have now invested in glock mags.

I have not been able to justify the cost for what for me will be a marginal weapon choice at best. Thus far I have talked myself out of it... I am interested in logical and practical reasons why I should reconsider.

Emotional reasons won't do. Although the emotional approach would almost surely work with my weakness for rifles...I just don't get all excited over a pistol. Ok...hit me with your thoughts...pro or con.
Jump....nothing better than having magazine compatibility between two different firearms. If SHTF the PCC and pistol combo is a great asset. Yea....I know it is not a rifle. Doesn't matter to me as the PCC is more fun than a barrel full of monkeys.

As far as the G17....I'd get the 19x or if you don't like the sand color go with the G45. Close to identical to the 19x but the black color. Some minor differences. They have the short G19 slide with the full size G17 frame. They balance unbelievable and shoot lights out.

Just my .02.

Bepe
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Old 12-24-2019, 11:36   #36
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Originally Posted by Bepe View Post
Jump....nothing better than having magazine compatibility between two different firearms. If SHTF the PCC and pistol combo is a great asset. Yea....I know it is not a rifle. Doesn't matter to me as the PCC is more fun than a barrel full of monkeys.

As far as the G17....I'd get the 19x or if you don't like the sand color go with the G45. Close to identical to the 19x but the black color. Some minor differences. They have the short G19 slide with the full size G17 frame. They balance unbelievable and shoot lights out.

Just my .02.

Bepe
Thanks Bepe. Magazine compatibility is nothing to sneeze at. I agree with you....a PCC is FUN and much less expensive to shoot. I am a recreational plinker....the PCC fills that bill perfectly.

If something really deep is going down I would opt for my Mini-14...but if all I had was a PCC...I would not feel unprepared. I am not a crack marksman...I will first try escape and evasion and if I have no choice I will stand and fight. I figure it won't be a long range fight...the PCC ought to do the trick if I put the rounds on target effectively. Heaven forbid I ever end up in such a situation!

I will be ever so happy to never face an adversary any more perilous than an empty Campbell's Soup can!

A very merry and safe Christmas to you all!
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Old 12-24-2019, 12:54   #37
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Originally Posted by Swift Pilot View Post
Clearly you've never hunted with a 357 Magnum carbine.
No but I have taken game with .41, .44 magnum, 7mm-08, out of a pistol. The Thomson Contender with pistol velocities that the projectiles are designed for. . If I'm gonna hunt I plan for conditions. Unless you are suggesting I hunt ground capable of producing shots to 400 yards with a pcc pop gun? Like I said not a big fan of pcc's.
The Contender is cool because you can sit back against a tree or rock, bring your knees up and squeeze the pistol in your knees, rock solid. But if you're a sissy girl from a little recoil.
I'll sell you mine!
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Old 12-24-2019, 14:06   #38
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Originally Posted by chill1955 View Post
No but I have taken game with .41, .44 magnum, 7mm-08, out of a pistol. The Thomson Contender with pistol velocities that the projectiles are designed for. . If I'm gonna hunt I plan for conditions. Unless you are suggesting I hunt ground capable of producing shots to 400 yards with a pcc pop gun? Like I said not a big fan of pcc's.
The Contender is cool because you can sit back against a tree or rock, bring your knees up and squeeze the pistol in your knees, rock solid. But if you're a sissy girl from a little recoil.
I'll sell you mine!
Chill....I sold off my Contender after I got the TC Encore. I had the 7-30 Waters pistol barrel for the Contender. It was a hoot to shoot back then....of course we were younger. I have found that I can't take the muzzle blast from the pistol length rifle barrels as we get older.

The only pistol barrel I have for my Encore is .44 Magnum. Just got my .44 Magnum Carbine barrel (16.5 inches) for the Encore from Bullberry Barrel Works. They are closing shop due to retirement. Ordered it back in the early Summer. I was lucky to get it.

Had it at the range yesterday for the scope sight in. Only had 10 Factory Remington rounds with me. First 2 shots were high right. Walked it down the paper and got dead on the bull @ one inch high at 50 yards. The .44 Mag barks out of the short barrel. Sounds like a .300 Magnum.

Got to get on the loading bench for it and work up a load.

Have a 30-.06, 7-30 Waters, 7.62x39mm and the .44 Mag for carbine barrels. Just the .44 Mag for pistol length.

Merry Christmas to all my PU Brothers.

Bepe
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Old 12-24-2019, 14:51   #39
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A good friend of mine talked me into my only official NRA match. He was in a freestyle competition with a TC in 7-30. I was in a more regulated silhouette match off hand. 7-100 yards I think, maybe it was 10 for the chickens. He won his first. Now everybody is watching me in a shootout tie for first. I was getting cold and windy and I was losing interest so we both flubbed the chickens at 10. He ran out of ammo, I got the win. My buddy had .44 mag in the truck and he whispered to me, want me to give him some ammo, I said heck no! Rams at a 100 yards, takes a while to hear the clangggg. That was my .41 Ruger New model Black Hawk. I can grab that pistol and drill a hole at pistol ranges all day long. It has a tickle spot of take up you have to get through then boom. Made me a better pistol shot.
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Old 12-24-2019, 15:04   #40
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The 7-30 Waters pistol barrel for my Contender was originally 14". I had it cut to 10" and Magnaported. Recoil was nil...probably less than a .44 Magnum, but the muzzle blast was like a hand grenade going off in your hand.

The TC guns are a lot of fun and the versatility of a barrel swap is priceless.

The Only .44 Mag I have left is a S&W 629. These days I mostly shoot low end loads.

Bepe
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Old 12-24-2019, 18:18   #41
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I've always wanted a smith in .44 mag. If you ever want to trade I have a mint 19-5 3" in .357 mag. I just run my .38's in it. But it's nearly perfect and 200 rounds maybe.. I picked it up a few years ago.
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Old 12-25-2019, 09:04   #42
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Agree on the CX4 in 9mm.
Want to get a Striborg soon, but hear they are going to release a roller delay lock up/bolt, so I can wait, they have the charge handle issue resolved.

And while it does not use Glock Mags, the ones it does use are available, and less than 30.00 each.
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