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Old 12-30-2013, 14:22   #1
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Lets talk about firearms function survival

Now I'm not some mos# blah,blah, blah-and don't want to be!But I want to give some friendly advice to other shooters so it might someday help to pull their a$$es out of the fire if they get into a jammed up situation.
I just got done watching the thread on the guy with the mini that likes to dump sand and dirt all over and into it,and I have seen may such clips about minis,ar's,and ak's.And all it goes to show is that any mechanical device can be made to fail by adding foreign material or by sheer lack of brains and common sense!
I recall when our troops first made their big push into iraq that many ar platform weapons ceased to function because of the dust,sand.Lack of training?Lack of common sense?I learned many years before that sand inside of m-16s made a siezed up worthless pos!But guess what -add water-even saltwater or urine and flush out the action and moving parts and it was back in business again!If it was running hot due to maintained firing-we were taught to put weapons oil right on the cartridges in the mag to keep it running,and for those hot barrels-water once again-thru the breech and/or on the barrel!It has worked since the times of muzzle loaders.Just be sure to point it downwards to allow it to drain out of the barrel and gas tube.
The same kind of treatment goes for the mini,and ak.get the sand,dirt,and gravel out-with or without water,add a little lube,and continue firing.It could save your azzes,and worry about gun cleaning till later.Better a rusty gun than a dead gun or soldier!PS-I doubt any American soldiers died of dehydration during iraq-could be wrong tho!Carry a canteen or two!
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Old 12-30-2013, 18:04   #2
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I remember in the movies seeing soldiers peeing on their overheated mortar tubes. Good advise. Will remember.
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Old 02-14-2014, 23:55   #3
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I would not poor oil directly on ammo. this ruins the seal between the brass case and the chamber during firing and would but a great deal more stress on the bolt, locking lugs and anything that is stressed during firing. In 23 years of service I was never taught to do this and I have never read in any training manual to oil ammo before firing. You may very well have been told to do this, but it is wrong. I was trained that water reguardless of the source. could be used. Personaly I always carried a tooth brush and used it any chance I got. I also never left a magazine well open to the elements. this was all with a M14, It never let me down even during the monsoon.

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Old 03-04-2014, 13:41   #4
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Originally Posted by magnomark View Post
Now I'm not some mos# blah,blah, blah-and don't want to be!But I want to give some friendly advice to other shooters so it might someday help to pull their a$$es out of the fire if they get into a jammed up situation.
I just got done watching the thread on the guy with the mini that likes to dump sand and dirt all over and into it,and I have seen may such clips about minis,ar's,and ak's.And all it goes to show is that any mechanical device can be made to fail by adding foreign material or by sheer lack of brains and common sense!
I recall when our troops first made their big push into iraq that many ar platform weapons ceased to function because of the dust,sand.Lack of training?Lack of common sense?I learned many years before that sand inside of m-16s made a siezed up worthless pos!But guess what -add water-even saltwater or urine and flush out the action and moving parts and it was back in business again!If it was running hot due to maintained firing-we were taught to put weapons oil right on the cartridges in the mag to keep it running,and for those hot barrels-water once again-thru the breech and/or on the barrel!It has worked since the times of muzzle loaders.Just be sure to point it downwards to allow it to drain out of the barrel and gas tube.
The same kind of treatment goes for the mini,and ak.get the sand,dirt,and gravel out-with or without water,add a little lube,and continue firing.It could save your azzes,and worry about gun cleaning till later.Better a rusty gun than a dead gun or soldier!PS-I doubt any American soldiers died of dehydration during iraq-could be wrong tho!Carry a canteen or two!
I never saw anybody I soldiered with in Irag do any thing like you have described....you must have been in some other place. The point of this post is moronic IMHO. If you are some kind of poser...you need to stop.

BTW, we don't refer to our "guns". In the Infantry, it is a weapon.......any real soldier would know that.
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Old 03-04-2014, 17:53   #5
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I've read of machine gun crew members useing snow, ice and even urine to cool barrels.
I've also been taught to try to keep any debris out of an action. and read of m16 equipped soldiers haveing to clean the bolt after couple hundred shots.
never owned or carried that myself.
did flip a canoe years back down in the river in 10' of water just before t-giveing dunking my 10/22. got my canoe righted gear mostly retreived, a fire going and drug that .22 out of the river on 3rd dive. nearly froze but rinsed it in clear water after the silt settled swung it around then loaded it and it fired. no smoke there.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:41   #6
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Originally Posted by crockett007 View Post
I never saw anybody I soldiered with in Irag do any thing like you have described....you must have been in some other place. The point of this post is moronic IMHO. If you are some kind of poser...you need to stop.

BTW, we don't refer to our "guns". In the Infantry, it is a weapon.......any real soldier would know that.
Gee thanks crocket-for bringing me back to reality-Not!I was "soldiering" back when it was a m16a1,and doing beach ops in the sand,and the mud and training army combat engineers about the finer points of living after a beach landing.It is not my fault that the army does'nt keep salt water on its many inland posts.I also know it is hard to break from old habits drilled into your head by drill seargeants that believe the only way is the army way.Study a little firearms history sometime and get a better perspective about what I said about the use of water,piss,or oil as a firearms coolant-then you can make a qualified statement!Btw-I also have done gunsmithing for over 40+ years now,and done some very unconventional "things"with gunz-no matter if you call them weapons,pieces,shooters,darling,or your joy stick-it's all just semantics-and does'nt accomplish anything!
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:36   #7
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Originally Posted by magnomark View Post
Gee thanks crocket-for bringing me back to reality-Not!I was "soldiering" back when it was a m16a1,and doing beach ops in the sand,and the mud and training army combat engineers about the finer points of living after a beach landing.It is not my fault that the army does'nt keep salt water on its many inland posts.I also know it is hard to break from old habits drilled into your head by drill seargeants that believe the only way is the army way.Study a little firearms history sometime and get a better perspective about what I said about the use of water,piss,or oil as a firearms coolant-then you can make a qualified statement!Btw-I also have done gunsmithing for over 40+ years now,and done some very unconventional "things"with gunz-no matter if you call them weapons,pieces,shooters,darling,or your joy stick-it's all just semantics-and does'nt accomplish anything!
I spent 20 years in the Army in combat arms and I never saw anybody piss on a machine gun barrel. We never went in any situation without preparing our weapons and equipment beforehand. If we had a stoppage, we cleared it or took other steps. This goes for crew served weapons as well as personal weapons. I still think you're full of hot air...have a nice day
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Old 03-07-2014, 22:29   #8
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When I was in the army I carried a toothbrush type wire brush with the handle cut down and sharpened so I could use it as a scrape. I wrapped it in a piece of old t-shirt and along with a army issue plastic bottle filled with good oil I carried it in my shirt pocket so if I was having issues with my A1 I would brush, scrape, wipe, and oil and 99% of the time I was back in business. A lot of times just squirting some oil on the BCG would get it back in the fight.

Ive heard of oiling the bullets but have never done it. Crockett you are being a d!ck. Don't do that.
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:33   #9
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Originally Posted by crockett007 View Post
I spent 20 years in the Army in combat arms and I never saw anybody piss on a machine gun barrel. We never went in any situation without preparing our weapons and equipment beforehand. If we had a stoppage, we cleared it or took other steps. This goes for crew served weapons as well as personal weapons. I still think you're full of hot air...have a nice day
Yup-only way;army way.
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Old 03-21-2014, 21:29   #10
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If you expect to keep your weapon functioning. you should keep a cleaning rod with you. The new bore snakes and cleaning cables are great for cleaning , how well will they punch out a stuck empty brass? I have been able to find cleaning rods with sections less than 6 inches each that will fit in a small kit. I also carry a broken shell extractor, I have never needed it for factory ammo but occasionaly with reloads. with AR's my kit doesn't carry spare parts that might break, so much as small parts that I might lose while field stripping in the field while cleaning it.
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:12   #11
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that is something that concerns me about useing the lacquered cases in my M30 - I've read of stuck cases that have the rim break off back of the extractor cut in ak's and sks.
I have a small nasal spray squeeze container of G.I. gun oil in my grab bag gun kit to use wipeing the chamber. I don't have any lacquered x39 ammo but never know if may have to fire it. hope not though.
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Old 04-03-2014, 16:17   #12
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That's the problem with dem new fangled weepons you kiddies use, to much crap to go wrong. Gimme a old fashioned turn bolt rifle, much less likely to F up AND they use man not girlyboy, size cartridges.
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:18   #13
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we aint in the military

and if I hit you in the chest with a 60 gr Nosler Partition softpoint 223, you'll do nothing but fall on your ass and cry for your mommie.

a turnbolt is ALWAYS as slow as having to clear a stovepiped empty rd. why give up the repeat shot speed of the auto for the GUARANTEED slowness of a bolt action, hmm? That's just pure stupidity.

If you're to ignorant to switch to wax on the exterior and lockease for the working parts (in a dust/sand environment) and just case the gun when back at base (in some plastic that's easily ripped off), then there's no hope for you, regardless of what gun you carry.
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:48   #14
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Originally Posted by nickee View Post
and if I hit you in the chest with a 60 gr Nosler Partition softpoint 223, you'll do nothing but fall on your ass and cry for your mommie.
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Care to 'stand behind' and back up what you said there, Mister?
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:47   #15
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Originally Posted by JRedHorse View Post
Anyone (Other than a person paid to in a lab) that would deliberately gunk up their weapon doesn't deserve that weapon.

The tolerances of each weapon are checked to the point of failure by the manufacturer and should not be attempted by the laymen, yes you should know how to clear and clean them if they become dirty but I see NO sense in burying my weapon in dirt and sand just to see "If I can get it clean again in record time" we were taught to clean and service them in the military because we were told to get em dirty.

And to "Oil my rounds" I think not.
JRH-that is what was on an ARMY training film (oil my rounds)given to the Navy-I'm guessing for the time when m-16's had action problems and failures early on in vietnam!I watched that probably 3 times.No one questioned it at the time-not even the gunners mates!
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:28   #16
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So have you ever heard the one about blowing up a condom to stretch it out then slipping it over your weapon!

This was a trick played on the noobs in Iraq. A box of condoms later and a good laugh they would fill them in on keeping there weapon clean. Anybody ever hear this one before or is it just war lore!?!?
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:43   #17
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I have heard of this practice when troops were deployed in sand infested war zones, it was meant to keep the sand out of the barrel but I've never heard of it being a joke?
I could be wrong but if you watch old film of the D Day landings look closely and you will see a lot of the troops hitting the beach with what appears to be weapons wrapped in plastic. So I'm guessing that the practice might have evolved into using condoms.
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Old 07-12-2014, 11:40   #18
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Originally Posted by Painfulitchingandswelling View Post
So have you ever heard the one about blowing up a condom to stretch it out then slipping it over your weapon!This was a trick played on the noobs in Iraq. A box of condoms later and a good laugh they would fill them in on keeping there weapon clean. Anybody ever hear this one before or is it just war lore!?!?
Must have been a hard choice: Protect your Weapon Or protect your Gun.

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Old 09-23-2014, 15:46   #19
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Yes I know WD-40 IS a bad word when talking firearms, but one of my friends and I were out shooting chucks, we were both using 10/22s after the first 550rd. Box of Winchester bulk both our Bang sticks were jamming up I thought that was the end of our outing, not so fast he retrieved a can of WD from beneath the seat of his atv and proceeded to spray the action down,working the bolt back and forth then with the straw on the side of the can dumps a whole bunch into the trigger group. After letting it drain a bit he loaded it up and it was good to go needless to say I did the same.
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Old 09-23-2014, 17:52   #20
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I would say using Water Dispersant #40 to bust up fouling, carbon, etc., while plinking with a 10/22 is not a horrible practice. My buddy and I have spit in our actions.
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Old 09-30-2014, 04:55   #21
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:21   #22
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On the "cleaning rod for removal of stuck cases" thing, if you have a fixed stock AR or an M1A/M14, just keep an issue cleaning kit in the butt trap. If you're into ComBloc iron, SKS's and AK's have single piece rods under the bbl.

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Old 09-30-2014, 22:04   #23
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During WWII the Japanese Type 11 Nambu LMG incorporated an automatic oilier. These weapons oiled each round as it entered the chamber. When firing the Type 11 you have a small glass indicator to warn you when the oil was is getting low.
When the Japs got to the sandy beaches in the South Pacific the oil and sand mixed and shut the guns down. The Type 11 entered into guns of the past. Oil and guns don't always work well.
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Old 11-16-2014, 20:26   #24
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Every weapon systems has its weaknesses. Some have problems associated with tropical climates. Others have problems with desert conditions. Still other have problems with cold, winter conditions. There is no such thing as a perfect weapon. American military people have been adapting and overcoming problems ever since they were first formed into military units to fight the French and Indians or the British in the Revolutionary War.

We have also learned to develop new tactics around our weapon systems as time passed and as we learned more about what and what our new weapons could not do for us. We learned that with some weapons a well placed single shot to the chest was effective. In other cases we learned that close range multiple hits worked well for some weapons when delivered to precise places on the human body (shot placement). Other weapons were designated as being area weapons in that they could effectively cover a large area with their shooting or explosive abilities.

We learned that some rifles would freeze shut, because of exposed bolts, in extreme cold weather conditions. To offset that problem we learned to rack the bolts every so often, store the weapons in a warm area or, on occasion, use body heat (sleep with the rifle against a warm body or urinate on the rifle) to get the bolt to function. But the key is that we learned what and how to overcome problems. That's what smart men do. They identify problems, plan ahead of problems and they overcome problems.
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Old 12-07-2014, 05:00   #25
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Originally Posted by magnomark View Post
Gee thanks crocket-for bringing me back to reality-Not!I was "soldiering" back when it was a m16a1,and doing beach ops in the sand,and the mud and training army combat engineers about the finer points of living after a beach landing.It is not my fault that the army does'nt keep salt water on its many inland posts.I also know it is hard to break from old habits drilled into your head by drill seargeants that believe the only way is the army way.Study a little firearms history sometime and get a better perspective about what I said about the use of water,piss,or oil as a firearms coolant-then you can make a qualified statement!Btw-I also have done gunsmithing for over 40+ years now,and done some very unconventional "things"with gunz-no matter if you call them weapons,pieces,shooters,darling,or your joy stick-it's all just semantics-and does'nt accomplish anything!

so it was YOU that showed the film of the 16a1 bolting the grunt thru the eyesocket because he didn't "T-handle drain it" after submersion !!
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