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Old 04-07-2020, 19:55   #101
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looks like the CA code has changed since I lived out there. Could still prove to be a problem for some, like steel cored 9mm "smg" ammo from Ww2.
The relevant penal code sections are 12320 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12320.html) and 12321 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12321.html):

Any person, firm, or corporation who, within this state
knowingly possesses any handgun ammunition designed primarily to
penetrate metal or armor is guilty of a public offense and upon
conviction thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in the state
prison, or in the county jail for a term not to exceed one year, or
by a fine not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both
such fine and imprisonment.

Any person, firm, or corporation who, within this state,
manufactures, imports, sells, offers to sell, or knowingly transports
any handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or
armor is guilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be
punished by imprisonment in state prison, or by a fine not to exceed
five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both such fine and
imprisonment.

If someone headed out to the range with such ammo they could apparently get charged with two different crimes: transporting it (12321) and possessing it (12320).
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Old 04-07-2020, 19:58   #102
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Here's the ILL code. Apparently they no longer use the 'lead core" language.
720 Ill. Comp. Stat. 5/24-2.1(a). “Armor piercing bullet” means any handgun bullet or handgun ammunition with projectiles or projectile cores constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium, or fully jacketed bullets larger than 22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25% of the total weight of the projectile, excluding those handgun projectiles whose cores are composed of soft materials such as lead or lead alloys, zinc or zinc alloys, frangible projectiles designed primarily for sporting purposes.
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Old 04-10-2020, 19:49   #103
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You can't hunt anything in CA with any leaded projectile. I make a Shotgun slug with a Brass insert and it is on the F&G list of approved projectiles for hunting. It could just as easily have a steel insert as brass, and it would be totally legal..

I assure you it will certainly go thru all but the most serious vests, and even if it doesn't the impact will kill you. Virtually any Shotgun Slug will go clean thru a car unless it hits a Solid Stop like an Engine Block or Wheel.

Even a 9MM from a pistol will penetrate thru the sheet metal of a car.

AP rounds are banned but they are not talking about common ammunition types as it couldn't be sold if they banned it. Most everything is available here, except Walmart stopped selling pistol ammo and .223.

Randy
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Old 04-11-2020, 06:37   #104
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Air guns are exempt. www.wildlife.ca.gov
Type in “lead” in search bar
Before you guys laugh too much, these high powered PCP air rifles can take some pretty big critters at 100yds or more, very quietly.
Extremely accurate, you can spend $2k easily on a top tier air rifle.
My Benjamin Marauder keeps up with the fancy rifles for less than $500 and is quieter.
Ground squirrels are a big problem here.
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Old 04-11-2020, 06:53   #105
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Thatís ten shots at 50 yds, and the sound of the pellet hitting the squirrel is louder than the rifle
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Old 04-11-2020, 07:01   #106
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62yds right between the eyes. Between myself and my buddies, we’ve probably taken thousands of these rats.
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Old 04-13-2020, 10:10   #107
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My Beeman R1 is the most powerful of my 4 Weihrauch Spring Powered Air Rifles.

I have some 24 gr JSB Monster Pellets that it shoots at 625 fps.

I have knocked down Rimfire Silhouette Rams at 100 meters with it several times.

Trajectory like a rainbow but still accurate and definitely lethal at short yardage.

Randy

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Old 08-20-2020, 12:28   #108
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what is the best pistol for home defense?
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Old 08-20-2020, 14:04   #109
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Originally Posted by kingrbt5 View Post
what is the best pistol for home defense?
There is no "best". It all falls down to what you are most comfortable with.

Semi-autos give you several follow-up rounds and the option (with training) of several more; revolvers are more reliable but slower to reload,

My personal preference is a reliable semi-auto with a spare mag for carry.

In the end it what is most comfortable for you so that an errant shot does not injure a hapless innocent. Train, train, TRAIN!
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Old 08-20-2020, 21:38   #110
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That question has been asked many times in the past.
Sometimes the better question what ammunition should
be used for home defense.
The weapon you want and the ammunition you need may
not be compatible.
If you reload, weapon and ammo can be tuned to be more
compatible.
Depending on the type of surroundings your home is located
in should also have a bearing on what you are going to choose
as a defensive weapon and ammo.
Example shooting an intruder with ammo that over penetrates
can have unintended consequences.
Wounding someone in another room when the projectile passes
through the intruder a wall or walls is something that must be considered.
Glaser Safety ammo or frangible ammo is a good choice.
These types of ammo also have their pro's and con's which you need
to be aware of.
RJF is right about training, the training is not only that you can hit what
your aiming at you also need to be aware of your surroundings and
know where and when to shoot.
Chances are you will only have one chance to get it right.
Go to a gun store and explain your circumstances and they should be
able help you make a positive selection. If they are not particularly
helpful try another place.
Not everyone is as nice and helpful as we are here.

Think I just threw my arm outta joint patting myself on the back.
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Old 08-23-2020, 23:05   #111
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Be prepared to answer in court for anything you do defense wise. Try to find out what your local LEO agency uses. They usually do a study on it.

Back in the 80s when much of LE was switching out of .38 Specials to 9MM, Many of the big city agencies did studies of existing shootings involving .38s vs 9MM, gel tests and expected results as well as lawsuits of ammo failures. By 1985-86 Chicago, LA, Frisco and FBI transitioned to 9MM and hollow points. Early on, some went to 9MM but with ball ammo. FOR COST. Numerous secondary injuries caused by ball rounds over-penetrating and striking bystanders caused lawsuits that forced those cities to pay for hollow points.

EXCEPT NYC. Last city to keep .38s with non-hollowpoint semi-wadcutters. Held out till 1993 Police Academy class with "experimental" 9mms. WITH BALL.
5 years of bystanders getting hit before they did a study of every other city that transitioned. You would think they would have read other cities studies of the same situation and got a clue. Or listened to their range personnel.
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Last edited by jor-el; 08-30-2020 at 08:01.
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:47   #112
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Originally Posted by 45acpskng View Post
Shotgun is the ONLY choice for expected trouble, 'nuff said!
Actually itís perhaps the absolute worst choice, particularly inside of a residential structure.
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First off, let's define "worst case", because my "worst case" scenerio is probably somewhat different than yours.
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:48   #113
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Originally Posted by kingrbt5 View Post
what is the best pistol for home defense?
High magazine capacity, reliability and ability to mount a WML.

MRDS is even better.

There are many options for this.
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First off, let's define "worst case", because my "worst case" scenerio is probably somewhat different than yours.
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Old 09-17-2020, 11:01   #114
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I resolved my original question a while ago. Settled on an FNH SLP 18 inch with a five round (holds) six double oh's. I have it loaded with factory ammo. I have acquired everything I need to reload shotgun including molds for the shot. Except for powder and primers I am pretty self sufficient. I have also practiced over the summer with my shotgun and others. The FNH is quite the shotgun. I used my overtime from my January work trip overseas to get it. Gave my old Semi, a Beretta A300 to a close friend of mine. He smiled like a Cheshire Cat. I have a second semi, a Limberta.
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Old 09-17-2020, 11:13   #115
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Originally Posted by Jeff F View Post
Rethink the 00 buck and try patterning your shotgun with #1 buck, Its a better load inside a house. I use 0, 00 and 000 buck outside where I may need to reach out a ways or shoot through concealment and I keep slugs on the shotgun to selective load as may be needed.

My pest control loads around the homestead are Hornady 3 inch lead BB loads or #4 buck.
Jeff, I did just that. Used wrapping paper, the long rolls placed on the backstop with the white side out. Patterns were acceptable. Right now there are no sources for ammo that I can find to test out the loads your recommended. I won't forget and will try those loads when I can get them to try. And thanks.
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Old 09-17-2020, 19:53   #116
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Good luck with that. Now that Remington is undergoing Bankruptcy don't expect much from them ammo wise.
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Old 09-19-2020, 13:02   #117
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Originally Posted by dh1633pm View Post
I resolved my original question a while ago. Settled on an FNH SLP 18 inch with a five round (holds) six double oh's. I have it loaded with factory ammo. I have acquired everything I need to reload shotgun including molds for the shot. Except for powder and primers I am pretty self sufficient. I have also practiced over the summer with my shotgun and others. The FNH is quite the shotgun. I used my overtime from my January work trip overseas to get it. Gave my old Semi, a Beretta A300 to a close friend of mine. He smiled like a Cheshire Cat. I have a second semi, a Limberta.
Good to see you are loading shotshells. go over to this site.

Casting & Reloading for Shotguns. This is a good and friendly forum.

We do alot of loading for shotguns there, mostly Slugs and Buck Shot but several guys are pretty knowledgeable about shooting pigs and such. Alot to learn there about this subject.

Shooting People is alot like Shooting Pigs except they don't move as fast.

Randy
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Old 09-19-2020, 15:03   #118
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Thanks for the link. I may join so I can learn.
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Old 09-20-2020, 23:13   #119
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My first choice for things that go bump in the night is still my 357 Magnum wheel gun loaded with either Federal or Remington 125 gr semi-jacketed HP.

My Remington 870 12 GA 18" barrel loaded with #4 Buck is a close second, or could be the first thing I reach for depending on what I'm confronting. I have Federal 00 Buck in the shell holder on the stock if circumstances call for it. If my front yard is full of "zombies" then it's going to be the Mini-30.

As long as you're knowledgeable enough to articulate a well reasoned choice for the ammo you use, you're good in most places if you have to defend your life or the lives of loved ones.

Most important for civilians is same for law enforcement... "I chose a round that would stop a lethal threat to save my life, but would not over penetrate to hit innocent people." That's why you choose hollow points for a handgun or rifle.

For shotgun... "I chose #4 Buckshot to stop a lethal threat to save my life, but would not over penetrate, go through walls and hit innocent people as easy as larger shot would."

Or whatever you choose, have a good reason so expert witnesses can speak on your behalf and back you up for your good knowledge... sound reasoning for your choices.

Also... "The death of the perpetrator is regrettable. I'm saddened by the loss of human life. If there had been any other way... but the attacker gave me no choice."

^^^^^ And hopefully you mean that when you say it because it's the truth. Loss of life is tragic under any circumstances including self defense.
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