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Old 12-27-2019, 13:59   #51
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Got two labs. They are much better at the new house in noticing things that don't belong. The 120 pound lab has some protective instinct, but is no shepherd. Advanced warning is about all you can expect.
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Old 12-27-2019, 14:45   #52
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Advanced warning is about all you can expect.
And gobs of loving! May knock an intruder over with licks - at first at least...

"What a good boy/girl!!!"
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Old 12-27-2019, 16:40   #53
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Labs are what labs are. Licking you to death is part of their plan. All toys belong to them.
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Old 12-29-2019, 10:04   #54
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Originally Posted by RJF View Post
And gobs of loving! May knock an intruder over with licks - at first at least...

"What a good boy/girl!!!"
RJ, there are so many in shelters and rescue sites. You need another pal around I can tell by the way you speak of yours from the past. Put the sadness of losing them in time, behind you and find a new buddy. God told me you need one.
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Old 12-29-2019, 10:48   #55
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Chilli, I would embrace another pooch or two at any time, but I will hold off until (or when) God decides it is time for a union.

We're old and in-firmed (severe RA/OA for my wife, and metastatic prostate cancer for me), and we both believe pooches should have a wonderful life. Our greatest fear is not being able to care for them should one injure itself and we can't help due to our infirmities. Our grandson will certainly care for our pooches (should we get one or two), but it will take time for him as he is stationed in FLA and has his own aging pooch to care for.

Our greatest concern is for our two horses: one turning 30 in just a few days, and another tuning about 17. Our elder is why we even bought this farm and, with it, the joy and blessing of our Fi and Scruffy and, a year later, some barn cats named Spooky and Smokey (ones who greet me each morning with love and affection - and hunger I'm sure).

My wife and I both accept that, should God provide us with another dog or two, we will gladly accept, embrace, and love. But we will not actively search.

Right or wrong, that is us in 2020, both well into our mid-60s/70s+, with a beloved horse tuning 30 who has been "family" for over 21 years, a beloved horse turning 20, and two now-trusting-and-no-longer-feral barn cats now over 13.

As far as home defense, most mornings (I awaken early) at about 0200-0300, I hear Coyotes in the distance howling away, with an occasional one nearer, but across a decent stream that hopefully deters it's crossing onto our land. With one or two, our horses can probably kick/stomp some serious a$$, despite their age. Any more and that could be a challenge (not to mention our barn cats).

Since I have a sleeping disorder (not a really bad thing), either me or my wife is awake at night. I have only seldom had the need to head down to our barn in the middle of the night, armed, and ready for 'yotes or - perhaps - two-legged predators...

But ready I am!
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Old 12-29-2019, 12:13   #56
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RJF, I could see the pain of your loss in your eyes when I came to visit. My dad is 87 and got a new dog four years ago. I will happily take him when and if my dad can no longer care for him.

You might want to consider another dog. A lab might fit nicely around you well maintained farm. Someone to hang out with when your in your office. No as a replacement, but as a new friend. We don't have to forget about our past friends. We don't get new ones as replacements. When I am traveling to Virginia again, I certainly will stop by for another visit.
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Old 12-29-2019, 14:49   #57
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Doug, you are always welcome!

Thank you for your sentiments. When God provides, we will happily expand our love circle. We trust in Him. We're just pretty much "maxxed out" with "chores" - even though they are daily acts of love and devotion.

Safe travels!
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Old 12-30-2019, 08:01   #58
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Doug says "look what I found on the road today" RJ says, "looks like this little guy/gal needs a loving home. Hint hint.
I know RJ, getting old is not for the faint of heart. I'm praying for your health buddy. God told me.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:59   #59
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My Fi was a svelte 120 pounds with 32" shoulders when she passed in 2013. I did not need to bend down at all to rub her shoulders. Nor could I lift her without her help.

At 5'10, on a GOOD day I'm only ten pounds heavier than she was, with virtually zero muscle tone. I was down to her weight last year for a bit...

My wife and I have settled into two horses and two cats. I get the occasional "puppy-fix" from a neighbor's Dachshund when she walking it, or sometimes in town at the Tractor Supply Co.

My Fi still gives me signs she's "about". This morning - at the end of December in Central VA - I smelled roses. Not just a hint, but powerful both inside and outside the house. Fi loved her flowers, but especially roses...Brought tears of love in my eyes.
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Old 12-30-2019, 16:51   #60
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I stole this comedic piece from many sources......

I own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors mailbox. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
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Old 12-31-2019, 10:21   #61
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But stroke and bayoneted. Then I drank my morning coffee before calling the cleanup crew. THAT is a great morning indeed.
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Old 12-31-2019, 11:55   #62
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And my pooches licked up all the DNA...
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Old 01-05-2020, 12:12   #63
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You guys are evil!

Don't you know that you can get an infection from black powder? And the smell?

OMG! Don't you think 12 ga. 00 is more Humane?

Don't we have to pay attention to these things?

Randy
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Old 01-05-2020, 20:48   #64
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but Randy, at least they won't have stomach worms.........if I feed them some black powder
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Old 01-20-2020, 16:38   #65
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Everyone here has been great with information. Some I already knew, and some was new. I was going to get a Benelli M4, but then changed my mind and got a FNH SLP instead. Its a good four to five hundred less but just as reliable. Just back from Germany and the Middle East (two weeks gone). I took it apart tonight for cleaning. Was easy. Very oiled up from the factory. Got the standard model without the pistol grip. It will be my go to gun after I take it out for some break in.
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Old 01-27-2020, 09:07   #66
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That should work just fine. Do make sure to take it to a Front Sight Tactical Shotgun class, and run a few hundred rounds thru it. This will break both the gun in and you in.

There is a learning curve to learning how to run a new gun.

Realistically after you have 500 or so rounds thru it you should have it figured out.

If you can't make it to Pahrump NV for training, I would suggest going to https://www.frontsight.com/gun-training-manuals.asp and picking up a "Dry Practice Manual" For Tactical Shotguns.

You can learn the basics of the gun handling just like they teach in the live course, and then just drill it until you are good. When you can pass the skills test at the end of the manual you are there.

Good Luck

Randy
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Old 01-27-2020, 12:39   #67
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
I have some "things to think about" to add to this conversation.

#1. and probably the most important is,

"Under What circumstances are you willing to kill somebody?"

Kind of need to establish that before you go on to weapons selection.

If you are not willing to kill a person then Firearm Safety Rule #2 comes into play.

"Never point a gun at anything you are not willing to Destroy."

So by extension,, If you are not willing to kill someone, you shouldn't point a gun at them, and if you shouldn't point a gun at them,,, then you don't really have any business with the gun in the first place.

All that said, everyone but the weakest of individuals, will have a threshold after which they will evoke a violent response. Waiting for God to come and save you when he already put a shotgun in your hands is a down right stupid argument, so we can just get that off the plate right now.

Survival demands, that if you must fight then you must come forward with the most violent response you are capable of. You are fighting for your life and you better realize that fact going in. It is not something you figure out half way into the fight. If you see you are behind the curve,,, YOU NEED TO FIGHT HARDER!!!!!

Waiting to see what the two guys with ski masks carrying guns in your living room want from you, is not a question you should be asking.

You should be bringing your shotgun to bare and concentrating on shot placement. The thinking part of this scenario has been over for along time and you should have already made the decision to fire,,, like many years before.

Yes, you need to figure out what you're going to do well in advance. You won't have time to "figure it out" during eh fight which by all estimations will last between 2 and 5 seconds!

It is generally recommended that you write it down and mail it to yourself so you have a record of what will trigger you to use lethal force..

Always remember you are not trying to "kill people." you are only trying to Stop Them! from hurting you or your family..

Example: You have armed intruders in your home. You find them and shoot them ASAP! You need no further justification (even here in CA!) Good Idea to have a light on your gun so you can identify them rather than killing your drunk neighbor who went to the wrong house.

A man is holding a knife to your Wife's neck. You blow his head off as quickly as possible! You don't have time to think, you only have time to act and the longer it takes only gives him more time to react. Seconds count

A man is Raping your Wife or Daughter, you blow his head off, probably taking care to have the overspray land off the victim. Remember a shotgun blast will probably cover more area than you think and you are responsible for everything it hits. "Gun Safety rule #4" Plus the trauma that will be generated on your family will only be compounded by the mess.

Remember Eli Wallach's line in the Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

"if you're going to shoot,,, shoot!,,, don't talk!"

Guys,,, this is what Firearms Training helps you figure out.

You'll notice that in all my examples above I mentioned "Shotgun?" Well a 12 ga. shotgun is the most devastating and versatile close range weapon there is. So that's what we use for Home Defense. 00 Buckshot and Slugs,,, no birdshot!!!

I just got back from my 5th Tactical Shotgun Class at Front Sight at the beginning of this month. I started these classes over a year ago. Prior to learning how to use a Shotgun for Defensive Purposes, if you came into my house uninvited, I would have probably shot you with my G21SF .45 ACP.

Now you get 00 Buckshot or maybe a Slug!

Here's a pic of my Home Defense Gun. It is a simple Mossberg 500 with an 18.5" barrel. The magazine is fully loaded,(6 rounds of 00) no round in the chamber. (Known as "Cruiser Ready") And additional 6 rounds are on the velcro side saddle, 3, 00, and 3 Slugs, and I can grab two more loaded side saddles when I pick the gun up just in case.

You also note that there is a light mounted to the fore end. That is for identifying the target before I shoot.

Nobody with a clear mind wants to kill anybody. However you should never be afraid to defend yourself or your family with lethal force if circumstances warrant such a response.

It is up to you to decide where that line is, and I suggest you figure it out right now,,, if you haven't already done so.

Note: The holes on the hostage on the target below are from the wads, the shot payload was on the edges of the bad guys heads. These were shot at 5 yards and it pays to know exactly what your what your gun will do, to avoid mistakes.

I hope some of this helps.

Randy
The hostage took the wad in the head at 5 yards. Not sure this would be a good shoot, might rethink shotgun at the head in a hostage situation.
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Old 01-27-2020, 17:40   #68
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Randy, I think I will order a copy of the manual. I have been practicing loading and unloading with dummy rounds. I didn't like their weight so I modded them with some lead and epoxy so they now weigh about what a real round weighs. I put 50 rounds through it last weekend. No failures of any kind. Cleaned it afterward for next time.
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Old 02-03-2020, 16:47   #69
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Originally Posted by ltcnav View Post
The hostage took the wad in the head at 5 yards. Not sure this would be a good shoot, might rethink shotgun at the head in a hostage situation.
Yeah, the wad from that shot actually was the one that hit the hostage in the neck.

This was shooting 000 buck which doesn't shoot as well as 00 buck.

8 pellets don't stack into a hull evenly like 9 do, and you'll get batter patterns with 00.

Still I'm going to wait for a better shot and inside 5 yards everything should be all thru one hole, Like the shot on the right target. Even so all the shot took out the left side of his head. The shot pattern was under 1"

Randy
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:20   #70
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
Yeah, the wad from that shot actually was the one that hit the hostage in the neck.

This was shooting 000 buck which doesn't shoot as well as 00 buck.

8 pellets don't stack into a hull evenly like 9 do, and you'll get batter patterns with 00.

Still I'm going to wait for a better shot and inside 5 yards everything should be all thru one hole, Like the shot on the right target. Even so all the shot took out the left side of his head. The shot pattern was under 1"

Randy
Take any of the cheap 12 gauge 2 3/4 9 pellet 00 buckshot and open the crimp a bit and take out one pellet then pattern against the same unaltered load. You will be very surprised how tight the 8 pellet load patterns.
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Old 02-10-2020, 12:25   #71
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Originally Posted by Jeff F View Post
Take any of the cheap 12 gauge 2 3/4 9 pellet 00 buckshot and open the crimp a bit and take out one pellet then pattern against the same unaltered load. You will be very surprised how tight the 8 pellet load patterns.
Why would I do this?

I bought a bunch of 000 as a package deal for ammo to use at Front Sight.

My M500 with Vang Comped Barrel patterns 00 into 4" at 15 yards and 7" at 25 yards.

The 000 was about 10" at the same distance which is not the end of the world, but on several shots at 35 yards I actually missed due to the poor pattern. I shot about 50 of these at my lst class.

Still not the end of the world, and I won't be worrying about it. But I won't be buying any more 000 Factory Ammo to shoot at FS. Just 00, didn't know better and the Federal was $3.15/5 rounds!

Please note: I have patterned this gun extensively with a variety of ammo. It shoots best with my very low recoil 00 reloads and slugs, but must run "Factory Loaded Ammo" at Front Sight..

For #8 birdshot only buy Federal 12ga at Walmart. It is exactly the same price as Winchester, but Winchester is having problems with their crimp and it is actually flared, whereas the Federal ammo has a nice radius on the front which improves feeding.

Randy
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Old 02-10-2020, 13:43   #72
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No intention to hijack this thread, just a question/recommendation. Then back to Home Defense.

Central Virginia, leaves have fallen, and exposed an inactive hornet nest hanging from a tree about 20-30' up, about the size of a soccer ball. Would like to eliminate it before Spring.

Wife wants me to blow it apart with our shotgun (12g, only ammo is 00-Buck). I'm hesitant with potential down-range effects (deer and other critters, but in an unpopulated area).

Would bird-shot do the trick? Even several rounds would be okay...
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:52   #73
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Originally Posted by RJF View Post

Wife wants me to blow it apart with our shotgun
She's a keeper.

Not sure that will work, but I like her style.
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Old 02-11-2020, 13:53   #74
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Seems like 00 Buck is the answer, although I'm concerned about down-range effects on critters. We love our critters... May buy a box of birdshot...
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Unread Yesterday, 05:04   #75
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
Why would I do this?

I bought a bunch of 000 as a package deal for ammo to use at Front Sight.

My M500 with Vang Comped Barrel patterns 00 into 4" at 15 yards and 7" at 25 yards.

The 000 was about 10" at the same distance which is not the end of the world, but on several shots at 35 yards I actually missed due to the poor pattern. I shot about 50 of these at my lst class.

Still not the end of the world, and I won't be worrying about it. But I won't be buying any more 000 Factory Ammo to shoot at FS. Just 00, didn't know better and the Federal was $3.15/5 rounds!

Please note: I have patterned this gun extensively with a variety of ammo. It shoots best with my very low recoil 00 reloads and slugs, but must run "Factory Loaded Ammo" at Front Sight..

For #8 birdshot only buy Federal 12ga at Walmart. It is exactly the same price as Winchester, but Winchester is having problems with their crimp and it is actually flared, whereas the Federal ammo has a nice radius on the front which improves feeding.

Randy
Specify the ammo. This sounds like pellets w/o buffering or a cup wad and striking the edge of the choke unevenly.
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