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-   -   ALICE, MOLLE, LBE, Plate Carriers, what do you use? (http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=105271)

gunslinger71973 04-06-2015 08:12

ALICE, MOLLE, LBE, Plate Carriers, what do you use?
 
So, what do you guys use? I consider my webgear/plate carrier to be my base layer, so I keep it pretty simple (mags, medical, water, more mags).

Currently, I use a simple plate carrier. I have both hard and soft armor that I can put in it. It has open top mag pouches that hold 6 M14 mags. I also carry 4 pistol mags, an IFAK, USGI cleaning kit, fghting knife, and a hydration bladder. I can change the M14 mag pouches out for M16 mag pouches if I decide to carry a little girl's gun.

I kid, I kid! :D

I also own an old school ALICE rig that I play around with sometimes. I don't know why, but I think it's cool. Maybe it's the angle head flash light hanging on the suspenders.

So, what do you guys use, and why?

Scorpion of Mars 04-06-2015 17:15

Use to be ALICE, which served its purpose, could have been worse, could have been better. To me, too much time, and too often having to re-adjust, or re-position components, wising ergos were better, or gear size/shape was less than optimal.

Now tactical vest w/molle and plate carrying ability. Gear better designed, like the ergos, good to go, more options/customizable. Not always thrilled with the loops and so much velcro and plastic. I think ALICE bore the weight better.

A/J/S/USNRet 06-04-2015 15:36

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fetNQ6uxCx0

gunslinger71973 06-04-2015 18:10

A/J/S/USNRet, do you have any suggestions for any good MOLLE M14 mag pouches? I would like to carry 4-6 mags on my plate carrier.

gunslinger71973 06-04-2015 19:40

Thanks. I'm shopping around for some better ones. The ones I have are not going to last. Blackhawk gear usually holds up to my lifestyle, but it's hard to find in any color other than black. Now I don't really care if my kit completely matches, but I would prefer Multicam, OD, or tan.

dstra 06-04-2015 20:41

All molle gear here. USMC ILBE main and assault pack combos for adults and assault packs for the younger ones. Everyone has the hydration system as well. Also have a few USMC coyote LBE vests to hand out with kangaroo pouches.

I do have a Multicam Condor plate carrier with AR500 plates and battle belt as well.

Many different brand pouches outfit the gear though I try to standardize on coyote so it goes with both the Multicam and Marpat.

W.R.Buchanan 06-05-2015 13:53

I use a dump bag on my belt for Rifle. I can hold all the mags both charged and empty that I will need in that bag.

For Pistol I use a gun belt with holster and mag holders. If I have both weapons then the dump bag goes on the gun belt in the back.

I prefer to go light in most all cases. I don't plan on going into battle anytime soon, but if I do it will probably not be of my choosing and I will not have time to gear up. I will have to run what I brung.

I have several small over the shoulder bags I can outfit as needed to support my guns and myself.

At 65 the limitations of Physical Effort are a reality and the lighter you are loaded the further you will go, and that's a fact.

Plate Carriers are too heavy to lug around for me and I would bet 90% of the older children here are in the same boat.

I'm even leery of boots that go more than 3lbs per pair.

Not many people our age will survive long in direct combat with highly trained opponents. IE; Current Military or Law Enforcement.

You need to be able to move fast and avoid direct contact and fire only if you need to.

This is completely Defensive in nature and as such body armor will only slow you down.

This is my philosophy and I feel it is very workable for the majority of situations I might get caught it. However I pretty much live in Condition Yellow anyway, and am pretty aware of my surroundings and my ability to avoid conflict has served me very well for most all of my life.

There is no substitute for awareness.

Randy

grumpy_old_man 06-05-2015 16:53

Interesting thread Gunslinger. I like the sound of your rig!

Comparing 'em all, and some of the older eastern bloc kit too, MOLLE is definitely the way to go - its so much better than any of the other load carrying systems that even the Russkis have copied it to the point that US equipment fits on Russian standard vests - and vice-versa.

Armor is tricky, because while I'm acutely aware of the endurance issues associated with it, it also provides protection that can be literally priceless. If you're bailing in and defending your family and household, I can't see any excuse to skimp on armor - its not like you're being asked to take the field and hump a hundred pounds plus of kit cross country in 100 degree heat. You're standing guard on what's your responsibility to protect.

That said, the best TLIII+ steel from AR500.com looks interesting. I've got older school TLIII and TL IV plates for a couple different plate and armor carrier systems, as well as soft armor. Match the kit to the task is the way I look at it.

Basic load on the left has changed a little since that pic was taken. Pulled the hard sides and replaced with TLIIIA soft sides for lighter weight, also up armored to TLIV ceramics in front and back. Not thrilled with the placement of the sidearm on the vest, but its supposed to be a mobile grab 'n go kit. There's a Camelbak on the back of the PC that doesn't show in the pics. The Russki Alpha has US made TLIII plates with a US made TLIIIA soft backer. Camo pattern on the pouches doesn't quite match, since all I had on hand were digital flora and the PC is in Surpat. Back of the Alpha there's a butt pack attached. That kit is supposed to be for bailing in, where I won't have long range shots and don't mind carrying extra weight. And while its configured for AKM mags, PMags for AR fit fine.

If y'all are armoring up, don't forget a brain bucket. Best bang for the buck IMHO is the German Schuberth 826. Can usually find 'em for under a c-bill with a good liner.

Best,
Grumpy

gunslinger71973 06-05-2015 20:34

I prefer the flap closure on mag pouches. My AR mag pouches are the bungee type, and unless I black tape the ends of the mags (or run Magpuls) they scar the heck out of my rifle. That may not be a big deal in combat, but I don't like abusing something I worked hard to afford.

Five years ago, I was still on a SWAT team. I started out using open top mag pouches, but it did not take me long to switch to flapped pouches. With open topped pouches, my mags would shift when jumping over fences. Going prone would cause them to dig in to the ground, and my sling always seemed to find it's way in between the mags, causing it to hang up. However, I never had a mag fall out of an open top pouch.

The flaps don't really slow me down enough to worry about them. I would like to find a flapped mag pouch, that hold two mags each pancaked on top of each other, as well as a single mag pouch. I would run two pouches (4 mags) front and center on my plate carrier. Then I would run a single mag pouch on each of my sides. That would give me a 6 mag load out.

I'm not on SWAT anymore, and even of I was I'd have to carry an M4. My plate carrier is mainly for my personal use. As in, if the Feds ever try to tell my local PD to start taking citizens guns. Our PD has already pledged to tell them to go to Hell. We will defend our citizens to the end.

gunslinger71973 06-05-2015 21:10

Thanks again, I'll check those out tonight. I guess I better go get the debit card. LOL.

grumpy_old_man 06-06-2015 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by hks95134 (Post 895794)
Looks very good Grumpy.

Your rig is faster than mine in that yours is self contained for pistol, pistol ammo, and carbine ammo. You just need to sling it on, then grab your carbine.

I need to sling on my pistol holster, sling on my carbine mag bandoleer, and then grab my pistol and my carbine.

You reminded me that I need to get a canvass camo cover for my swat helmet. My helmet is painted fluorescent yellow and I use it for mountain biking too.

That's a good rig you've got there. Maybe kinda hot in summers though.

Thanks much and you're right, its pretty brutal down here in the summer heat.

One thing that didn't show in the pic is that I added a set of Ares Armor "plate silencers" which is just a buckle kit - so its even faster than you may think to get suited up, just two fastex buckles on the strong side. Also have a set of Bolle ballistic goggles like these Bolle Defender Tactical Goggles - Combat Goggles Designed For Soldiers - KeepshootingŪ on the helmet now - if you're getting a camo cover, you may consider one of the German ones, because it has a set of loops that you can hook your goggle band through in the back. Keeps it from sliding around.

For a very light rig for hot temps, I recently refurbished my 30 year old Safariland soft riot vest with some newer lighter TLIIIA inserts and a 6x8" TLIII plate over the heart in the trauma plate pocket of the insert. Bottom pockets in the front hold 2x 20 round Mini 14 mags each. One thing that doesn't show is the fold down groin protector on that one. One thing I always liked about that vest is the leather shoulder patches - keeps buttstocks from sliding off.

Best,
Grumpy

grumpy_old_man 06-07-2015 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet (Post 895912)
Nice Grumpy, but if your amour-ed, the end is near. JMHO. Mobility = The chance to fight again. JMHO.

We'll agree to disagree.

There's a time and a place for everything, and if I'm defending my family, I'm using every tool at my disposal to keep in the fight. That's what armoring is really all about, keeping in the fight, since there are some scraps you can't disengage from - you just gotta win 'em.

And since armor isn't something you can pick up on a whim from the local five and dime, I had to put some planning in ahead of time when I revamped from ALICE to MOLLE gear and decided on an integrated armor approach. What you're seeing there are some of the results. There are others, that range in weight from an unarmored chest rig up to a truly heavy rig with SPEAR/BALCS TLIIIA and 11x14 plates.

Best,
Grumpy

A/J/S/USNRet 06-07-2015 14:54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fetNQ6uxCx0

grumpy_old_man 06-07-2015 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet (Post 896123)
That's a tough Nut, Hope neither/none of US get stuck in such a position. That's like a half step away from Deadender-ville. Hope you fore planning works if it's ever needed. ;)

True, your survival potential goes up if you don't have dependents so you're only looking after your own ***. If that were the case for me, I'd go super light and stick with the Remmy 700 and a sidearm. Use standoff, stealth, and the ability to outrange anyone with a carbine. Also try to stick to places where I could use that standoff.

In that case, for armor I'd stay with TLIIIA soft in a concealable format unless the money was there for some dyneema (amazing stuff, take a look - BulletProofME.com Body Armor - Rifle Plates - Ultra-light Polyethylene ), figure around $1300 for just the plates (including sides). If your pockets are deep enough, 10 lbs of polyethylene plates gives all 'round protection that is comparable to steel TLIII, and if you lose the sides you can get your front and back in around 7lbs total. Downside? Don't leave it in a hot car interior or car trunk.

Best,
Grumpy

grumpy_old_man 06-07-2015 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet (Post 896179)
Grumpy, the Best laid plans of Mice and Men can go awry. But should it come to the worst, I'm only pulling OVERWATCH, while the family sails away. (should give props to American Hero. Overwatch won't ever be questioned again)
Bet you have never tried to swim a mile of two wearing any armor. (Land Lubber)
But we did agree to disagree, dependent on our circumstances.

LOL! I'll freely admit to being land-locked and not worrying overmuch about swimming with my kit (finding water to render potable is another issue around here that is not a laughing matter).

But since you're in more watery environs than I am, take a gander at Liion Defense Now To Sell Floating, 2.9 Lbs DKX Max III Body Armor Plates - Soldier Systems Daily

Yep, TLIII hard plates that float. That's one of the reasons I suggested dyneema (UHMWPE) plates for the well heeled. They're not only light, they're actually less dense than water to the point that some variations will float. Get a swimmer's cut and you've actually got a rig that won't get in the way along with some floatation in addition to protection from rifle fire. Get a slick carrier and even if you had to dump your FLC or chest rig to do some swimming, you've still got your armor.

Best,
Grumpy

whofarted 06-07-2015 21:06

2.9lbs level III multihit plates that float!! Damn thats gotta hurt the pocketbook though

W.R.Buchanan 06-07-2015 21:27

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslinger71973 (Post 895729)
I would like to find a flapped mag pouch, that hold two mags each pancaked on top of each other, as well as a single mag pouch. I would run two pouches (4 mags) front and center on my plate carrier. Then I would run a single mag pouch on each of my sides. That would give me a 6 mag load out.

GS: Goto LA Police Gear 5.11 Tactical, Galco, Maxpedition, Bates, Danner, Oakley, Streamlight, Surefire and Blackhawk

They have every kind of mag pouch known to man. I personally like the Condor brand as they are relatively inexpensive made well and do the job.

All mine are flapped models however the flaps are held in place by Velcro and can be adjusted for different length mags or removed altogether. I have double 1,2,3 hole versions. Each hole will hold two mags, and are attached by MOLLE straps. They were between $12-15 each.

I have one 3 hole unit but when loaded with 6, 30 round mags it is pretty heavy. I prefer the 1 and 2 hole versions. These are cheap enough that I have all my Carbine Cases equipped with them so they are grab and go, ready to run gun cases with everything you could need for that particular gun.

Randy

grumpy_old_man 06-07-2015 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan (Post 896223)
GS: Goto LA Police Gear 5.11 Tactical, Galco, Maxpedition, Bates, Danner, Oakley, Streamlight, Surefire and Blackhawk

They have every kind of mag pouch known to man. I personally like the Condor brand as they are relatively inexpensive made well and do the job.

All mine are flapped models however the flaps are held in place by Velcro and can be adjusted for different length mags or removed altogether. I have double 1,2,3 hole versions. Each hole will hold two mags, and are attached by MOLLE straps. They were between $12-15 each.

I have one 3 hole unit but when loaded with 6, 30 round mags it is pretty heavy. I prefer the 1 and 2 hole versions. These are cheap enough that I have all my Carbine Cases equipped with them so they are grab and go, ready to run gun cases with everything you could need for that particular gun.

Randy

LA Police Gear gets two thumbs up from me. Fast service and good prices. And Condor is good bang for buck equipment that's better built than some of the snobs will have you think. That said, I'm partial to Shellback Tactical's Banshee and I want to get an Eagle Ciras one of these days.

Best,
Grumpy

W.R.Buchanan 06-08-2015 11:04

Grumpy: I'd bet the Condor Stuff is made in the same factory in China as the Maxpedition stuff. I have some of both and I can't see any difference in either the materials of the workmanship.

I really dislike when outfits that have established a name, rely on that name to sell products that are not any better than the cheap stuff.

I was really taken aback when I found that Snap-On tools are no longer made in the US, however they are still priced like they are.

Getting pretty hard to compete with Harbor Freight. However I will not accept Cars or Guns made in China. I know both are coming.

Randy

whofarted 06-08-2015 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet (Post 896430)
Somehow, I just got to put my life on the line with something that says "Made in the USA".
It gives me a warm fuzzy to know that somebodies Grandma back "HOME" was running the Singer that made the gear I'm Betting my life on. :o Call me Old Fashioned, I'll still walk the line for the American Worker. ;)

Poor guy.. Made in America pretty much means made in a sweat shop in City of Industry, California by illegals with fake papers.. Sorry to break it to you bub

Now thats the American Dream

W.R.Buchanan 06-10-2015 09:57

Now guys, why does every thread have to digress to a pissing match?

It's getting really old.

Randy

grumpy_old_man 06-10-2015 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan (Post 896355)
Grumpy: I'd bet the Condor Stuff is made in the same factory in China as the Maxpedition stuff. I have some of both and I can't see any difference in either the materials of the workmanship.

I really dislike when outfits that have established a name, rely on that name to sell products that are not any better than the cheap stuff.

I was really taken aback when I found that Snap-On tools are no longer made in the US, however they are still priced like they are.

Getting pretty hard to compete with Harbor Freight. However I will not accept Cars or Guns made in China. I know both are coming.

Randy

Damn'd if I know where exactly Condor is made in China, but my experiences with it have been on the whole good. Under a c-bill for a plate carrier compared to several hundred for some other companies that are not necessarily made in the USA. And while I do prefer to buy American, money is tight - a fact exacerbated by our foolish free trade policies that have exported good paying jobs to countries like China that can at the most charitably be described as "rivals".

Right now I'm looking for a new padded pistol belt and LBE harness. Got any experience on the Condor ones?

Best,
Grumpy

W.R.Buchanan 06-11-2015 19:27

:eek::eek:
Quote:

Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet (Post 896459)
I'll take it one-who-smells-like -farts. Round eyes and able to recite the pledge of allegiance even if they need a teleprompter. Go Home and Cuddle with the Koran if you desire. :lol: Stay out of grown folks conversations will you.

Sir this is what I'm talking about IE Pissing Match.

Nobody here would ever decry you for buying American. But that's not the point,,,the point is, why not keep the Inflammatory Rhetoric out of it.

You could have easily made your point without calling or implying that "Who's Farting" is an "Immature Koran Hugging Sand Worm."

I realize you are a highly principled Veteran of the Armed Forces,,, But don't think for one minute that others aren't as well. :eek:

I have found that "You can catch more flies with sweetness, than you can with Sour Puss!"

And "Sweetness" is something that many here could use a little more of.

I learned this when I was 7 years old watching Popeye Cartoons after school, and It has stuck with me to this day.

You were probably in the NAVY by then so maybe you missed that lesson.:usa:

Randy

W.R.Buchanan 06-11-2015 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by grumpy_old_man (Post 896905)
Right now I'm looking for a new padded pistol belt and LBE harness. Got any experience on the Condor ones?

Best,
Grumpy

Grumpy: I have one but I am not using it as a Pistol Belt. I have Three Uncle Mikes gun belts that I have set up for both my Glocks and my S&W 696.

The padded belt was purchased as a hip belt for a 3 day back pack. It is too heavy to be lugged around with just the shoulder straps so I put the hip belt on it and it works really well. I can also thread a Holster on it if I want.

I think it was < $20 and nobody else really had anything like it .

Randy

W.R.Buchanan 06-11-2015 19:50

I think everyone needs to take a break on the BS! None of it advances the cause!

Randy


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