Buying 'Once Fired' Brass - Are You Sure It's Truely Once Fired? - Shooting Sports Forum


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Old 02-26-2016, 14:31   #1
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Buying 'Once Fired' Brass - Are You Sure It's Truely Once Fired?

Done
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Old 02-26-2016, 15:44   #2
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I don't reload but I am collecting my brass so when I get enough I'll look for someone to reload them for me or just sell them.
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Old 02-26-2016, 16:43   #3
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U better believe arseholes will lie to you
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Old 02-26-2016, 20:27   #4
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My supplier doesnt reload!
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Old 03-08-2016, 17:38   #5
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Since most reloaders pick up their own brass (and any other they can get their hands on), once-fired cases will almost always be once-fired.
If that is still too big a risk for you, don't buy once-fired cases.
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Old 03-09-2016, 07:02   #6
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I have purchased large quantifies of LC 5.56 and LC 7.62 brass. All once fired. Except for the need at times for a small base die it has been well worth it. Non military once fired has been hit and miss over the years. Sometimes you get worthless brass that shouldn't have even been loaded one single time more. Certainly not once fired.
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Old 03-10-2016, 10:35   #7
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COSteve: Sorry. You live in a MUCH different world then I do.

You are being perfectly safe and there is no criticism of your methods, just that for most of us, we are just glad to pick up all the cases you leave behind.
Most reloaders, for 100 years, have picked up all the cases they can find and have then inspected them and used the ones they find acceptable and this has worked well.
All the reloaders I know determine case quality at the inspection/reloading stages and DON'T leave bad cases laying around at the range.
The real thing is, just as you say, that any military case with the primer crimp removed is NOT once-fired and any case that has a couple of extractor/ejector marks is not once-fired.
However, I only think about questioning once-fired in terms of advertising claims for cases for sale and not the cases left on the ground--I assume the ones on the ground may have been loaded several times before (though, in reality where I shoot, almost all are once-fired from virgin factory ammo), but I am going to inspect them just like every other case.
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Old 03-10-2016, 13:29   #8
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When one reloads, there is an added risk taken on. Ammo companies are all automated. Heck Black Hills uses Lake City once fire brass - or so it is said.
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Old 03-10-2016, 16:06   #9
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Old 03-11-2016, 09:22   #10
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Confession Time! For more than a quarter century I've grabbed anything I've found at the range. Then I take it home, and both wet and dry tumble it. Next I'll size and decap the cases; and, importantly, I'll put my caliper on each case and check it for CCL (cartridge case length).

CCL is a ( clue to how many times a case has been fired. Straight wall cases stretch very slowly; and (1) if none or only a very low percentage of the cases are slightly over-length, cracked, (or show, 'bright rings' beneath the head), and (2) if the primer pockets are still nice 'n tight then I have always felt safe to assume that my newly found brass is GTG! (And, so far, I've been right!)

If anything less than the above conditions become evident then I'll toss all but the cases that have passed the initial examination.
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Old 03-11-2016, 13:34   #11
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Originally Posted by COSteve View Post
A plan . . . . . . . . . . . if it's never been trimmed. However, there's little to tell if it has or hasn't (sometimes you can tell and others you can't) and that doesn't always tell you anything because some people (me included) resize and trim brand new brass before it's loaded the first time so that it all starts out the same.
That's sophistic reasoning! Anyone who would do those things is, certainly, not going to leave useable brass at the range; and, if any brass he does leave is going to be old, or well used then the other factors I've mentioned will easily reveal why it was discarded.

Besides, the most likely brass to be found is going to be commercial brass without any chamfered case mouths that has been fired only one time. The brass you need to check most closely is those onesie-twosie odd headstamps that you might pick up along with the other stuff.

Like I said: I don't think this works; I know that it does! After all, I've been doing these things for more than a quarter century. As far as I'm concerned anybody who's so na´ve to not know how to determine whether he's dealing with newer useable brass, or older well worn brass really shouldn't be reloading.
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Old 03-13-2016, 04:58   #12
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Originally Posted by COSteve View Post
You may be putting a bit too much trust in human nature but, heck, it's your choice. It's obvious that you've got your way and that's that so good luck with your reloading and I hope you stay lucky with it.
Come on, Steve! Cut it out. I didn't start handloading last week; I've been handloading and reloading for almost 40 years. Things look different from where I am in comparison to where you are. I'll give you this, though. I've never thought that just anybody should get into handloading. Some people aren't meant to reload; and, if you've been at this for awhile now, then, I'm sure you've met them too.

I'm going to tell you something else, as well: Not to brag because I really don't need to; but, in my entire life, I've met no more than a dozen other handloaders who were capable of turning out finished reloads as well as I do. In fact when I used to shoot IDPA I always used CCI Blazer Aluminum. (Surprised? Well, so was I!)

Want to know, 'Why'? Because I got damned sick and tired of everybody stealing my brass. Whenever 4 or 5 guys would be a little too quick to help me pick up my expended brass I knew that at least 30% of it was going to disappear! Everybody saw my ammo boxes when I opened them; and it WAS a lesson to me in - not what you have suggested - but in the, 'true nature of the beast', instead.

Understand? I'm not quick to trust people; I've lived too long to make a stupid mistake like that; and I've spent too much on IGF's, as well.
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Old 03-17-2016, 12:39   #13
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No, Steve! I wasn't reloading Blazer Aluminum; I was buying it new!
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Old 03-17-2016, 14:37   #14
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Perhaps it is best to just purchase LC Mil Surplus Ammo and keep a good record of how many times you reload it. That certainly takes any question out of the equation, and your once fired brass will be fire-formed to your chamber. 2K worth of surplus should get at least 10K worth of reloads, that is more than the average shooter sends downrange per year. JMHO.
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Old 03-23-2016, 10:22   #15
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Ex Military brass has the primers crimped in.

If you can't get primers back in when trying to reload it, chances are it was only fired once before. You will have to deal with this before you can push new primers in.

If it is Ex Mil (Lake City) and doesn't have a crimped primer then it has been reloaded.

The vast majority of .223 brass I find is LC, and I have thousands of empty cases waiting for processing.

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Old 03-23-2016, 16:05   #16
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Randy: "The vast majority of .223 brass I find is LC, and I have thousands of empty cases waiting for processing."

Typo? 5.56 NATO or 5.56 x 45 mm brass?

Most of the .223 Remington brass I've found is Federal. But LC does offer .223 Remington also.
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Old 03-23-2016, 17:41   #17
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I should have used the proper designation. Point taken.

Does the "Federal .223" brass you see have the primer crimped?

Randy
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Old 03-23-2016, 17:53   #18
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
I should have used the proper designation. Point taken.

Does the "Federal .223" brass you see have the primer crimped?

Randy
No. But neither does the Lake City .223 Remington I've ordered.
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Old 11-01-2016, 17:22   #19
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I check the primer crimps, it its there, its once fired, if not, I toss it.
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Old 11-20-2016, 14:06   #20
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I'm new to reloading, haven't given this subject much thought. I buy used 223 brass at gun shows, friends have given to me, and what I find at the range. Why should I be concerned about the number of times brass has been fired as long as it reloads to specs? What QA inspection flags indicate a case should be tossed or used? Thanks.
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Old 11-21-2016, 11:17   #21
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I figured I'd weigh in on this a second time as virtually all ammo I shoot is reloaded,,,by me.

There are certain calibers that have a virtually indefinite case life. .45 ACP, 9mm, most pistol rounds with the possible exception of .40 S&W and a few others. I had to buy a .45 pistol because I had picked so many .45 ACP cases I had to start loading the round. Now it is my Favorite Auto Pistol round and I have 3 guns to shoot them in. I recently started Powder Coating my Cast Boolits and that has given new life to that round as there is no barrel leading ,,, whatsoever, and the Boolits look very cool, they also are worth about .02 apiece! Hard to beat that! A loaded round is about .08-.10 cents ea.

Any Strait Walled Rifle or Pistol Case will last virtually forever,,, as long as you take care of them. And by that I mean don't roll them around in the dirt or step on them too many times. My .44 magnum cases have been loaded over and over from 1978 on! I don't know how many times they've been reloaded. Revolver Rounds are easy to take care of as they come out of the cylinder and go directly into the box or dump bag.

I have .308 cases that have been loaded 15 times. I have .30-06 cases that have been loaded a dozen times. I even have .303 British cases which are on their 6th reload and this was unheard of until the advent of the Lee Collet Neck Sizing dies which don't work the brass hardly at all.

I have Old Style Winchester AA Shot Shell hulls that are going on 8 reloads.

There are several things that kill brass.

Autoloading Rifles like Minis and Garands are hard on brass. My Garand will rip the rim of a case if I turn the gas system all the way up, and even at lower settings it still chews up the rims and as such those cases are only good for a few times thru the gun.

With 5.56 brass I generally only load these once, and the reason why is that the places I shoot them usually don't allow you to pick up your brass. So they are a one way trip, and thus they don't get the attention that other brass gets. I don't trim them or do anythign special as theya re once fired, reloaded and gone. Most of the 5.56 brass I find at the range (my biggest source for Brass) is once fired factory LC which is simply left behind by guys who don't reload, and there's plenty of it!

I tumble the stuff and run it thru a F/L sizing die to knock out the primer and set the shoulder back and then either hit the crimp on a countersink or run it thru the Dillon Primer Pocket Tool. I always hated my RCBS Tool and started using the countersink so I wouldn't have to use it. I'll sell it to you!

On another note,,, the intensity of your loads has an effect on Brass Life. Obviously the higher powered your loads the shorter your brass life. And that brings us to Cast Boolits.

I shoot a lot of Cast Boolits.

I have a hundred or so .30-06 cases that I bought from a friend in 1976 that have been reloaded 50 times easily. These were all ex Military from the 1940's and 50's and were of excellent quality. They get loaded with 16 gr of 2400 powder and a Lyman 311299 gas checked boolit. Since the velocity is around 1700 fps the pressure is relatively low and the since the cases only get Neck Sized they last forever.

So you see that it really doesn't matter if a case is once fired or not. It all depends on how you treat the thing after you get it.

As far as buying Once Fired Brass, I have never had a problem with any I have bought. I just bought 1500 .45 ACP cases from a guy over at Castboolits.com (Google it first and use that address) I have been shooting at places that don't allow brass pickup so these have been a one way trip thru my guns.

If you go to the "Swappin' and Sellin' Section" at Castboolits there is every kind of brass for sale there imaginable, and the prices are usually pretty good!

Anyway that's my extended .02 on this subject and I invite you all to make a trip over to Castboolits.com as it has a wealth of information on any subject related to firearms.It will make you better shooters.

Randy
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Old 11-21-2016, 13:25   #22
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I agree with almost all of what Randy just posted, with one exception. This pertains to mostly pistol brass, but I have had terrible luck with once fired nickle plated brass. Most I could get out of them was two loadings (38 special) before the case split. With other 38 special, no problems.
BTW, I'm still reloading 45acp brass I first got in the late 1970's.
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Old 11-21-2016, 21:34   #23
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If there is a difference in case life between 9x19 and .40 S&W, it is that the 9x19 cases have more web to hold that pressure than .40 S&W cases.
As far as case life goes, the only straightwall cartridges that have a lot of case cracks are .38 Spl and .357 Mag (and they are really well supported in the cylinder's chambers)--so pressure is not what is causing the cases to split, as .38 Spl is low pressure like .45 Auto (and my .38 Spl loads are 148gn wadcutters at 750fps, and they still split).
I don't remember the last .45 or 9mm case I lost due to a split at the mouth or body of the case, but I know that every time I shoot .38 Spl or .357 Mag, I get about 2 split cases out of every 200 or so. So far, after about 10 years, I have not had any .40 S&W cases split either.
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Old 11-22-2016, 15:55   #24
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Originally Posted by COSteve View Post
So, Randy's post is interesting. He states that, "There are certain calibers that have a virtually indefinite case life. .45 ACP, 9mm, most pistol rounds with the possible exception of .40 S&W and a few others."

Such is the statement of a fool.

Yep, I'm stating categorically that Randy doesn't know that he's talking about. There I said it. The fact is that the 9mm, like the 40s&w is a 35,000psi rd. That's a high pressure rd not to be confused with a low pressure rd like the 45acp at a max of 21,000psi.

Therefore, unlike what Randy runs his mouth off, it's a high pressure rd and reloading it, like the 40s&w is to be handled with caution. That's something that Randy doesn't understand.

Further, the 9mm+P is actually a higher pressure rd than the 10mm. Bet Randy didn't know that either. So, you 9mm handloaders should take note. Don't believe me? Then go check. You'll find my words to be true.

Randy's posts reveal him to be one of the most dangerous of posters; one who posts lies without knowing that he's posting them. One who posts dangerous statements without the knowledge to know that he risks other people's welfare by his carelass manipulation of the facts.

My Gawd Steve,, You'd think from your post that I had been Convicted,,, Beyond a Reasonable Doubt,,, of Being Completely Full of ****!

You even called me a Liar? WTF? !!!

I don't know what crawled up your arse, but nothing I said in my post was in any way untrue.

Just for the record,,, What exactly did I say that is untrue? I think you need to re read my post again and try a little harder to understand what I was saying. After all it was simple plain English .

What, you don't believe that .45 or 9MM cases can last virtually forever if taken care of. I am fully aware of the pressures that 9MM and .40 S&W operate at. My .44 Magnums run there too. But the 9mm has been around for over 100 years and the case design has evolved into an extra strong design for use in machine guns with really loose chambers and relatively speaking are substantially stronger than .40 S&W cases, thus case life is extended. Most 9mm Cases don't fail from being fired too many times,,, they get lost at the range! I have a big jar full of them. I make Makarov cases out of them.

Do you not believe I have .30-06 cases that have been loaded with Cast Boolits 50 times since 1976? That's once or twice a year for 40 years? They probably have been reloaded more than that.

Do you not believe I cast a majority of the Boolits I shoot? Or I don't Powder Coat them? Pics don't lie!

You don't believe I manufacture the Finest Portable Reloading Press ever built?

The article is in the Feb/Mar 2017 issue of Handloader Magazine!

I obviously know nothing about reloading ammunition.

Luckily the opinion of one Juror is not sufficient to convict anyone of anything.

You need to go have a drink or something and Cool the **** Off, your offensive tone is not welcome here ,,, and I ain't AJ so don't even think of treating me that way!

Randy
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Old 11-23-2016, 05:13   #25
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OK, no I do not believe; nor do I have any evidence from more than 40 years of handloading small arms ammunition and shot shells that 9mm and 45 ACP cartridge cases either can, or do, 'last forever'. Straight walled cases DO eventually stretch; straight walled cases do eventually become brittle from repeated firing; and, sooner or later, the primer pockets will start to open up. It is, therefore, only a matter of time before case heads begin to separate, and mouths begin to split.

So far none of the resident, 'reloading geniuses' (If you don't believe me then all ya got 'a do is ask one of these guys whether or not he's real smart!) around here have stated the biggest (and most significant) single difference between 10mm/40 S&W cartridges, and 9 x 19mm or 45 ACP cartridges; AND, it is NOT that cumulatively generated, 35,000 psi operating pressure Steve seems to be fixated on. Instead it is,

THE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF PEAK IGNITION PRESSURE GENERATED BY, BOTH, 10mm/40 S&W CARTRIDGES. (Who'd a thunk — Huh!)

I understand, 'Where' Randy is coming from! When you've got 500, or better, 9mm, or 45 ACP cartridge cases on hand, and you use fairly light loads, an extended reloaded case life of 25 to 30 times can, indeed, seem like it takes, 'forever' before you're finally ready to simply leave them lying on the ground for some fool to come along, pickup, and wishfully try to revitalize!

My suggestions for this thread? Steve has, indeed, been something of a pain in the butt this time around; and, overall, Randy is telling the truth — albeit subjectively. Damn, you Hillary, and Trump people are just going to have to learn how to peacefully coexist!

Why? Because, if I didn't know any better, I'd think I was on some sort of typically all screwed up and juvenile internet gun forum; and, none of us want to do that — Now, do we!
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