What are we going to do long term on bullets? - Shooting Sports Forum


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Old 12-27-2013, 15:43   #1
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What are we going to do long term on bullets?

There appears to be enough lead already in the pipelines to last for another few years but what happens after that?

With pressure coming from the government to get rid of it in their ammo purchases the ammo makers will phase it out. Are we running solid copper alloy bullets then? Does that have an effect on the reloading dies? Wouldn't copper bullet of the same weight be larger than a copper jacketed lead one?
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Old 12-27-2013, 15:59   #2
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I think it will really depend on what the Yuan/Remnimbi do in terms of valuation....I expect that it'll go through the roof, which is really what it should have done for the last 15 years. Hence the "cheap" production costs from china, which are really lie and have been for a decade, will drive manufacturing back here. Ergo all that epa $ht will go out the window since people will be starving and desperate for jobs, "save the earth" doesn't work very well when people are or feel poor.
Or it'll go to the crapper quickly and i direct you to your local dhs stockpile, and i'm sure the russians would be happy to supply brass at that point...
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Old 12-27-2013, 17:36   #3
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Hmmm, you mean if there's no more lead available for bullets?

Well, I do know what my druthers would be:
(say it singsong, like the Mouseketeers Club opening song):

A-P-F-S-D-S-D-U aka "nuke a puke"....

Just kidding, just kidding. Don't go callin' the bat boys, I'm perfectly content to throw lead at the other guy. Couldn't resist the joke though, some things never get old.

Thing is I've got enough lead to keep goin' a long long time personally. Depending on my cardiac health maybe a lifetime supply of most things center fire so I'm not losing sleep over it for myself. .22's are another matter, but I could replace that with airsoft for training if there weren't any more to be had.

But what about the young 'uns without good stashes? Or if I lost most of mine in a house fire or something?

Well, if the powers that be ever do manage to clamp down on the lead supply, look for pricey non-lead ammo to be showing up in stores. Try $9/50 shots of .22LR - that's what Academy was selling their non-lead .22's for and its a reasonable price for what it is.

But also expect to see all sorts of improvised projectiles popping up from the home hobbyists out there, many of them with AP performance to die for. I could see people using steel cores and swedging copper or aluminum jackets over them, all sorts of things. Once people have to make their own bullets look for them to get a little "creative". Add in the potential of 3d metal printing and I don't think that's a can of worms the other side should open.

And on the non-AP side of things, remember that CETME originally toyed around with some hyper velocity aluminum slugs back in the late 40's/early 50's timeframe. I can imagine a soft aluminum .38 slug moving a whole lost faster than we're used to seeing with an opening that looks like the airscoop on an F86. Probably easiest to start with rod stock and turn it down on a lathe to a full wadcutter then drill the ends out would be my thinking.

Just some ideas.

Best,
Grumpy
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Old 12-27-2013, 17:50   #4
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Originally Posted by hottarod View Post
Wouldn't copper bullet of the same weight be larger than a copper jacketed lead one?
Yep. Like those CETME aluminum slugs from back in the day, copper is less dense than lead so they'll be longer for any given bullet weight.

I wouldn't count lead out though. Obozo's crew think they have it sewed up tight but I still think we'll beat the bastards in the end. So stock up on lead if it makes you sleep better at night. I still am, even though I think we'll be throwing lead around for decades to come.

Sorry if my other post was too flippant!

Best,
Grumpy
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Old 12-29-2013, 13:01   #5
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Oh fer crise-sakes;How do you think that the old-timers used to get lead for their muskets back "in the day"?It's stiill out there.In mine tailings,in open mine pits,in gravelbars on creeks and rivers,and in some old dirt lots!Just use some inginuity!
and for bullet jackets; Corbin Home Page
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Old 12-29-2013, 13:24   #6
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Originally Posted by magnomark View Post
Oh fer crise-sakes;How do you think that the old-timers used to get lead for their muskets back "in the day"?It's stiill out there.In mine tailings,in open mine pits,in gravelbars on creeks and rivers,and in some old dirt lots!Just use some inginuity!
and for bullet jackets; Corbin Home Page
Dang! Thanks for the link on the swaging equipment. Back 30 years ago one of the old timers in our club used to make his own 5.56 slugs from lead stock and once fired .22LR brass for the jackets.

Never did get a tutorial on making 'em though - he died just a bit after he got started on that project and we never got a chance to get together. Impressive results though - he was tickled pink to save a few pennies on each JSP slug....

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Grumpy
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Old 12-29-2013, 13:47   #7
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Much thanks for the link.
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Old 12-29-2013, 14:23   #8
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Grumpy,Nomad-heres another useful link;
RCE, LLC - Bullet swaging presses
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Old 12-29-2013, 16:37   #9
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I'm not going to worry until the ragheads run short on ammo. At that point I'll hire a hood rat to steal car batteries. My neighbor and I already have the rest of the equipment to melt and cast the bullets in 9mm, 45 ACP, and 5.56.
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Old 12-29-2013, 16:44   #10
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I posted many times at the beginning of the year during the great ammo shortage of 2013. Invest in commodities. Got a friend who is a student at a local school. They use a type of metal that is used for bullets to hold experiments in place. They are plastic coated and weigh about 40 pounds. Best investment ever. Collect lead where you can when you can and store it safely. I shoot lead when I can. Use gloves when handling the bullets. Buy molds, swagers and what ever you need.

I went to my dad's over the weekend and saw over 1000 225 Winchester brass and over 1000 .284 Winchester brass. Twenty something bricks of .22. Enough .357 bullets and brass to fight off a small army. He saves what he thinks is valuable. We all should do the same.
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Old 12-29-2013, 19:44   #11
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Originally Posted by dh1633pm View Post
I posted many times at the beginning of the year during the great ammo shortage of 2013. Invest in commodities. Got a friend who is a student at a local school. They use a type of metal that is used for bullets to hold experiments in place. They are plastic coated and weigh about 40 pounds. Best investment ever. Collect lead where you can when you can and store it safely. I shoot lead when I can. Use gloves when handling the bullets. Buy molds, swagers and what ever you need.

I went to my dad's over the weekend and saw over 1000 225 Winchester brass and over 1000 .284 Winchester brass. Twenty something bricks of .22. Enough .357 bullets and brass to fight off a small army. He saves what he thinks is valuable. We all should do the same.
Exactly. That ***wipe in the WH may think he can out-maneuver us by hitting the lead supply but gunnies are by nature resourceful, inventive, and born diy-ers. We'll do okay, though the rimfire ammo may get seriously pricey since its not as diy friendly.

Fact is that it doesn't take nearly as much ammo for serious social purposes as it does for harmless fun at the range. All you need is maybe 3 guns and a couple thousand rounds to be pretty well kitted out for anything short of a prolonged war.

Dingleberries in power think they've won in the long run but all they're doing is building a huge stock of arms and munitions in distributed sites throughout the country - enough that they'll never find even a fraction of 'em.

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Old 12-29-2013, 21:38   #12
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I'm stocking up even more than I already had. I'm thinking 7.62 x 39 could be really hard to find if they cut off imports as I expect.
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Old 12-29-2013, 22:51   #13
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Nah, that ammo shortage becomes opportunity when you can get it Canada and other places just over the border....

And I don't see many states going along with this nonsense very much longer.
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Old 12-30-2013, 02:22   #14
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Check it out.

Sierra Responds: How Will the Closure of the Lead Smelting Plant Affect Sierra Bullets? | Sierra Bullets
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:42   #15
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Well for those folks who didn't listen when this alarm was being sounded years ago when ammo was fairly cheap and available this must be a slap in the face. I know I have been called many things in the past for being an alarmist, and on many things I was a good bit ahead of the curve; but thus far I haven't been wrong. No, I'm no profit, I merely look to history and current events and have been pretty much able to see what is happening before time. There are others far more visionary than myself; they have been sounding the alarm sice before I was born, but they have been discredited and treated like scoundrels by a media that is complicit in the plan to destroy America.

I have boxes of bullets with prices still marked on them that are half of today's value; doubled my money in a couple of decades, not a bad investment, though they're not for sale. So I was a nut back then to a lot of people; it didnt' bother me then, and it doesn't bother me now. Time reveals all things gentlemen, and the truth is self evident to those who seek it.

For those who don't, well, the let us just say price for ignorance is high, and growing every day.
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:57   #16
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I think you're right Grumpy. If we survive the communist revolution and eventually get back to the heritage that made these united states great, the lead industry will spring right back to life. As will anything in demand. It's not America that makes people great. Liberty is a natural right we are endowed with by our Creator. America is just a collection of states where people recognized that preserving those natural rights is essential. And look what it produced! That same spirit will reignite once the wet blanket of liberalism is removed.

Sure hope it happens in my daughter's lifetime.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:16   #17
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Jeez. The same sort of people panicking over bullets who go berserk when there's a shortage of the newest iPad because they just can't handle having to settle for a Samsung, who go nuts when cable channels go black cause they don't know how to hook up an antenna, and who commit suicide when the local Starbucks runs out of beans cause they've never seen a drip coffee maker or French press.

Calm down. You ever hear of bullet molds? Reloading? And lead is imported by the ton, cheap.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:26   #18
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Originally Posted by jjk308 View Post
Jeez. The same sort of people panicking over bullets who go berserk when there's a shortage of the newest iPad because they just can't handle having to settle for a Samsung, who go nuts when cable channels go black cause they don't know how to hook up an antenna, and who commit suicide when the local Starbucks runs out of beans cause they've never seen a drip coffee maker or French press.

Calm down. You ever hear of bullet molds? Reloading? And lead is imported by the ton, cheap.
No panic here; just a simple reality check. I believe in being prepared and have since I was a Boy Scout. I have reloaded for decades, and I am in a position to not have to panic. Why? Because I am prepared.
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Old 12-30-2013, 17:22   #19
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Originally Posted by jjk308 View Post
Jeez. The same sort of people panicking over bullets who go berserk when there's a shortage of the newest iPad because they just can't handle having to settle for a Samsung, who go nuts when cable channels go black cause they don't know how to hook up an antenna, and who commit suicide when the local Starbucks runs out of beans cause they've never seen a drip coffee maker or French press.

Calm down. You ever hear of bullet molds? Reloading? And lead is imported by the ton, cheap.
Yes, but you could still be screwed by powder and primer shortages. Do you have a way to make your own? Bullets are actually the easiest part of the reloading equation.

Rimfire ammo is another story. Collection (hoarding) is the only good option here.
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Old 12-30-2013, 19:54   #20
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Roman way:
I.Kill enemy
II.Take dead enemies weapons
III.Take dead enemies ammo
IV.Take dead enemies womens and make woopie
V. Drink all of dead enemies booze.


Ammo problem solved!
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Old 12-30-2013, 23:44   #21
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Originally Posted by magnomark View Post
Roman way:
I.Kill enemy
II.Take dead enemies weapons
III.Take dead enemies ammo
IV.Take dead enemies womens and make woopie
V. Drink all of dead enemies booze.


Ammo problem solved!
Well like they say when in Rome...
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:13   #22
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Originally Posted by 40nascar View Post
Yes, but you could still be screwed by powder and primer shortages. Do you have a way to make your own? Bullets are actually the easiest part of the reloading equation.

Rimfire ammo is another story. Collection (hoarding) is the only good option here.
Yes, Black powder and primers are simple. But its harder for autoloaders because they need smokeless, although that's a 130+ year old technology. I've done it and nearly got kicked out of a chemistry lab because the nitroglycerine component was a bit too sensitive.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:05   #23
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Originally Posted by jjk308 View Post
Yes, Black powder and primers are simple. But its harder for autoloaders because they need smokeless, although that's a 130+ year old technology. I've done it and nearly got kicked out of a chemistry lab because the nitroglycerine component was a bit too sensitive.
Glock 21's will run on black powder, if you can get priming compounds. Glock Torture Test with Black Powder - YouTube Maybe an AKM, but an M4gery on black powder? Bwa-ha-ha-ha-haaaa...

Don't try any of this stuff at home (really don't try it at home) but look at how desperate the brits are Expediant Homemade Ammo

Count your blessings that we can still get powder, shot, and ball, let alone modern fixed ammo without a permit most places in the US.

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Old 12-31-2013, 10:03   #24
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Something to remember ...in the American Civil War ...The army of Northern Virginia supplied its Artillery arm with many a captured Federal piece ...The afghanis are using british enfields to engage at 400 plus yards...where there is will and dedication to cause there will always be a way .
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:30   #25
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Originally Posted by shootnpoot View Post
Something to remember ...in the American Civil War ...The army of Northern Virginia supplied its Artillery arm with many a captured Federal piece ...The afghanis are using british enfields to engage at 400 plus yards...where there is will and dedication to cause there will always be a way .
Heart has determined the outcome of many more battles than weaponry.
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