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Old 05-17-2012, 12:46   #26
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Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
Go get a job welfare queen!
Two things:

Our society has bred a culture of welfare leeches.

Why work when housing, food, and health care is just handed to you?
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Old 05-17-2012, 13:03   #27
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
I totally understand your point. Or should I say, points. Unless you are rich, you and your wife shouldn't have to pay for it. I support raising taxes for the rich, not the middle class.

Your other point, that people should not irresponsibly have children they can't afford to support, is partly valid. No one can predict their economic circumstances in three to five years, certainly not the average worker in this country.

And, disincentivizing childbirth can be fraught with unintended consequences. Even so, in some cases I'm for it, but we should do everything possible to ensure the end results aren't dysfunctional or stunted childhoods. In addition to the fundamental human decency aspect, we pay a high social price for those.
Try taxing the rich all you want. They will leave. Hence co founder of Facebook. Cal him names all you want, tell him he can't come back.. Whatever. Think he cares? Funny thing about producers: they are smarter than politicians.

We don't know 100 percent what will happen in 5 years. But we have savings, family, church, and community. I know of "down on luck" quite well.

It's good society that helps people, not socialism. Socialism is where people vote for government to take someone else's money from them and give to someone else. You are not being some humanitarian. You are deciding that you really don't want to help and it's your sick way of feeling good about yourself. This is when the concepts of charity begin to erode. God help us if we loose it.
(I'm using the royal "you", I don't pretend to know your heart)

Its not decentivizing to prepare for children! Subsidizing anyone who wants children is how you end up with laws like china. Government will begin to decide which ones live and die. Not so perfect babies were the first to go in nazi Germany. Doctors kill babies on china all the time. Powdered baby skin anyone?

Once government funds it, it begins its movement into control. You give government control over this and you will regret it.


From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to selfishness;
From selfishness to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.

There are 4 ways to spend money:
1. Spend your money on yourself
2. Spend your money on someone else.
3. Spend someone else's money on yourself.
4. Spend someone else's money on someone else.

Who is the best steward of your money? Which of these tends to be the most wasteful?
Yes I'm quoting some people but I'm having a hard time with my phone to check who said what.
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Old 05-17-2012, 13:16   #28
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Originally Posted by KingANuthin View Post
Try taxing the rich all you want. They will leave. Hence co founder of Facebook. Cal him names all you want, tell him he can't come back.. Whatever. Think he cares?
That is the attitude that enables the global race to the bottom. The solution is to implement and maintain high standards here, and participate in global campaigns to isolate - politically and economically - those nations which do not. This is how those nations which harbor illicit money in secret bank accounts are dealt with, and this is how to deal with scofflaws ranging from tax evaders to sweatshop owners and operators to human traffickers to polluters and bribers and corrupters of all types.
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Old 05-17-2012, 14:10   #29
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This idea ForSoWrong, that you can isolate the wealthy from leaving high tax rates is nonsense.

Consider this: Illegals come and go in this country every day. Most of them are not wealthy, but some are.

Do you really think, a well educated guy like the co-founder of Facebook can't come and go in the USA all he wants, and thumb his nose at the Dork Schumer who talks of passing laws to tax this guy, or punish him the the other OVER FOUR THOUSAND OTHER RICH PEOPLE WHO LEFT THE USA JUST THIS PAST YEAR?

Think about this for a moment. The very rich, the ultra rich see the writing on the wall, and they are saying F-You to the USA tax system. They are taking their billions, and moving to places with zero taxes.

And where do they go next? Well they hop in their private jets, and fly anywhere they want, and NOBODY cares.

I'll give you an example: Let's say I have nuked my US ties, and no longer pay taxes here. I sold my property to a holding company that is cloaked in a non-profit foundation for the poor with very high operating costs, and little actual money that goes to the poor.

Who does things like that? Oh, Jessie Jackson, and Al Sharpton to name a few....

Need a place to stay? Well the foundation owns houses all over the world, including here in the USA, and they pay ZERO taxes on those properties, since they are owned by the non-profit foundation to save the poor and downtrodden. This foundation owns vehicles, planes and anything else you might want...

So, I'm in Singapore, and I want to spend a few weeks in Sun Valley, ID skiing?

I call up my private jet, and file a flight plan to Canada, eh... I land there, and go through customs in British Columbia, while the jet re-fuels. We file a flight plan to Calgary, I'm going to spend 3 months there.

On the way to Calgary, we just change our flight plan, and drop into the USA over Eastern Washington, and down into Idaho, landing in Sun Valley at their very nice airport, where the plane is parked in our foundation owned private hanger. There is NO passport checks, since I'm just another plane into and out of the area. And since my flight posed no threats to the USA, nobody cares.

I enjoy my Sun Valley trip, spend money here in Idaho, pay State Sales taxes, and absolutely nobody asked me for ID, or if I was a US citizen, or how I pay my taxes.

On my way back home to Singapore, I wipe my ass with Chuck Schumer's laws.
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Old 05-17-2012, 14:17   #30
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The newly-elected president of France has proposed increasing their highest tax rate to 75%. What gall. What makes him think he can get away with that? Well, France is a nice place to live, for one thing, particularly if you're rich.

Let's look at Singapore and other tax havens. So called "supply side" economics is a proven failure because its application was fraudulent, imposed by plutocrats as it was. The world knows this, and more Americans are waking up from the Reaganomics con every day. Sooner than later, the only tax havens remaining are going to be city-states and small islands. They are utterly dependent on larger nations for protection. We'll just see how this ingrate who unfriended America will fare under the Chinese.
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Old 05-17-2012, 14:24   #31
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Watch the wealthy in France self-deport to various countries with zero taxes. (As if they have not allready done it, and live in France now, wiping their collective asses with this new 75% tax you talk of...)

The rich don't pay taxes, they JUST MOVE AWAY FROM THEM.

Get over yourself dude, and understand that the best way to raise money from anyone, rich or middle class, and yes, even the poor who should also pay taxes, is a FEDERAL SALES TAX.

It is the only fair tax. It is the only way you get criminals to pay taxes.

Duh, why do you think states love sales taxes? LOL
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Old 05-17-2012, 14:42   #32
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I agree with a federal sales tax, in part for the reason you cite, and also because it encourages thrift, which under this economy and tax regime is sorely disincentivized.

But while you are right about how tax evaders operate, the solution is, as I've already stated, to cooperate with other nations, and isolate those which do attempt to circumvent international standards. This applies to taxes just as it does human trafficking, labor standards, etc., as already mentioned. Otherwise, the global race to the bottom will continue, with predictably bad results.

And, there is no reason - aside from Republican cravenness - that Eduardo Saverin should even be absconding with so much loot. He should have been paying much higher taxes all along, especially on capital gains. Finally, yes Schumer is a pinhead for oh so many reasons, but he's right in introducing the "Ex-Patriot Act." I'm all for it.

See, you can't answer the basic question of where does capital flight end. You cannot have a modern civilization at all under such circumstances. That may be fine with you. I know it is for some. But as it would mean a devastated global ecosystem, billions more people eking out lives in increasingly abysmal circumstances, and a tiny minority of super-rich protected by gangs of mercenaries, and accountable only to those mercenaries (it isn't hard to guess how that ends up, which is why the smarter super-rich aren't trying to subvert their nations), most people aren't standing for that. Instead, we are stopping it from happening, while there is yet time.
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Old 05-17-2012, 14:47   #33
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Wow, you're even more gullible than I imagined! How else could anyone have a mind so twisted that he would write that last paragraph above?
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Old 05-17-2012, 14:51   #34
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Your not wanting the truth to be told isn't news, bmcgilvray.
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Old 05-17-2012, 14:53   #35
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
That is the attitude that enables the global race to the bottom. The solution is to implement and maintain high standards here, and participate in global campaigns to isolate - politically and economically - those nations which do not. This is how those nations which harbor illicit money in secret bank accounts are dealt with, and this is how to deal with scofflaws ranging from tax evaders to sweatshop owners and operators to human traffickers to polluters and bribers and corrupters of all types.
Good for the Facebook founder!!!!!
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Old 05-17-2012, 14:59   #36
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Perhaps the greater question should be asked: "Why does the government subsidize anything?"

It wouldn't be for the purpose of buying votes would it? Naah... nothing like that.

Our government enables nitwits and we pay for it. What a deal!
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Old 05-17-2012, 15:48   #37
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Now the leftist "government" wants to force people to stay here and give up their money to a country turned communist.

Last year 1,700 people renounced their U.S. citizenship.



Here's a leftist communist blog explaining it.
Senators to Unveil the ‘Ex-Patriot Act’ to Respond to Facebook’s Saverin’s Tax ‘Scheme’ - ABC News
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Old 05-17-2012, 17:44   #38
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You don't even know what "communist" means, or what communism is.
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Old 05-17-2012, 18:18   #39
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
You don't even know what "communist" means, or what communism is.
Explain it to us. Your the local expert. Treehugger.
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Old 05-17-2012, 18:28   #40
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It's way past time to get government out of our lives, anything they touch gets screwed up big time.
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Old 05-17-2012, 18:40   #41
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Why doesn't the government subsidize daycare?

Take this idiocy to its logical extreme conclusion.

Why doesn't the government just go ahead and subsidize absolutely everything?

After all, leave nothing to chance and leave no one behind. Just take control of all business, all income, accounts, investments, indeed all private possessions and dole it out as we need it.

When's it going to end?
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:18   #42
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Who is John Galt? A lot of French know now.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:23   #43
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
The newly-elected president of France has proposed increasing their highest tax rate to 75%. What gall. What makes him think he can get away with that? Well, France is a nice place to live, for one thing, particularly if you're rich.

Let's look at Singapore and other tax havens. So called "supply side" economics is a proven failure because its application was fraudulent, imposed by plutocrats as it was. The world knows this, and more Americans are waking up from the Reaganomics con every day. Sooner than later, the only tax havens remaining are going to be city-states and small islands. They are utterly dependent on larger nations for protection. We'll just see how this ingrate who unfriended America will fare under the Chinese.
That newly elected president has 3 houses on the french riveara. The elites will stay, those who have favor with government. The Bourgeoisie socialist. All others are leaving.. In droves.
Socialism is for the people, not the socialist.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:38   #44
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Who is John Galt?

There is no John Galt.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:46   #45
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
Who is John Galt?

There is no John Galt.
Exactly
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:53   #46
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Again, the trick is to ENTICE rich people to live in your country, not DEMAND that you steal their money, and re-distribute it to others, while in the process, you create a bloated government built on the entitlement/tax system. (IE: Current America.)

Multi-million/billionairs are leaving in droves not because they hate the USA, they are leaving because they will not longer LET THIEVES LIKE SCHUMER steal their money.

And good for them.

I say no income tax, no corporate tax, no energy taxes at the exploration, drilling, pumping, refining or transportation of our energy etc.

Simple 10% sales tax on everything you buy, for everyone.

Buy a gallon of gas? It has a 10% federal sales tax attached to it.
Buy a new house? It has a 10% FST.
The 10FST would be SO F'n easy to enforce, that NO MORE IRS would be needed at all. No more tax fraud. No more complicated tax laws.

Trillions would be saved just NOT dealing with the tax code we have now.

No need to file taxes on April 15. Your state and local taxes would be determined by your State and local governments, and you can deal with them effectively locally.

The #1 result of a change like this would be an economy growing at 7 to 10% or more per year from day one of the new 10FST.

No more corporate taxes? Heck, everyone wants to sell things in the USA, and they know building stuff where you sell it often adds value, and cuts costs. (Look at all the big car companies building vehicles in non-union, non-over-regulated Southern States for clear examples of how this works, and how it creates jobs, wealth and prosperity.)

Guess what your fuel costs would be with just a 10FST? Perhaps 1.50 per gallon or even less as I also support using every source of energy we have, and opening up every known reserve, since reality is, it's not going to run out anytime soon, if ever in human existence. (Methane on Titan has been around billions of years, yet it's still there, and must be replenished every 100 million, or the solar wind would strip it all away.... NASA has all but proven "fossil fuels" are not fossils at all, but abiogenic in origin.)

As for the average citizen? Imagine if they knew that being rich only means you pay 10FST on your purchases? Save up for yourself? You get no cap gains taxes, no early 401k/IRA withdrawal fines, none of the confusing nonsense that we have now. It's your money, save it, or use it, and YOU get to decide how that is done.

That concept, that we let people decide for themselves is what scares the crap out of guys like Schumer.

Freedom and economic liberty need to be restored to the USA.

It's time for Dorks like Schumer to get sent packing back to their law firms, or retirement where they can do no more harm to this nation.
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Old 05-18-2012, 23:08   #47
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Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
Why doesn't the government subsidize daycare?

Take this idiocy to its logical extreme conclusion.

Why doesn't the government just go ahead and subsidize absolutely everything?

After all, leave nothing to chance and leave no one behind. Just take control of all business, all income, accounts, investments, indeed all private possessions and dole it out as we need it.

When's it going to end?
Best response to the OP I have seen thus far. There used to be a time when one didnt rely upon goverment assistance. If you found yourself in a jam you relied on extended family or the Church or in the case of child care your neighbors even. Now a days we hardly know who our nighbors are. Few are truely active in the church and community. Most familys hardly get together more than Thanksgiving or Christmas if that. I mean there used to be a time when blood was thicker than water, but not anymore.

I used to see my young pups in the Navy face the same situation. Sometimes it was because they put themselves in a situation of more responsibility than they could handle, sometimes it was just misfortune that put them behind the power curve. My solution to them was not for their spouse to get a job but for their spouse to stay home, get certified by the state and babysit or take turns baby sitting with friends and neighbors so a spouse could get a part time job and bring in some extra income. Work smarter, not harder!
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Old 05-19-2012, 00:03   #48
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Thank you very much LunaticFringeInc.


Only a personal view but we got to where we are today as consequences for our behavior.

Righteousness exalteth a nation; But sin is a reproach to any people.

Proverbs 14:34

And also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, that knew not Jehovah, nor yet the work which he had wrought for Israel.

Whithersoever they went out, the hand of Jehovah was against them for evil, as Jehovah had spoken, and as Jehovah had sworn unto them: and they were sore distressed.

Judges 2:10 and 15
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