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Old 04-12-2012, 06:55   #1
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What if obama is reelected?

The economy is still bouncing around. Some people say we are in a recovery, while others say we are heading into a second recession.

What is the worst thing that can happen?

I think the absolute worst thing that can happen is for obama to be reelected.

The second worst thing that can happen, is for mitt to be elected.

The US is on a road of self-destruction. Unless there is a total change of leadership, there is no getting off the path.

Even if a lot of new people are elected into congress, there will bee too many old dogs left in place to stop any real change from happening.

Excessive spending

Back in the 1980s, we outspent the russians on military spending. It was impossible for the russians to keep up, so they gave up.

The problem is, the level of spending never stopped. We have so many social benefits programs now, its crazy.

Where do we cut the spending at? Should money for roads be cut, how about free school lunches, food stamps, low income public housing, foreign aid.

So where do we cut the spending?

In 2008 the federal government bailed out the banks and wall street. From what it looks like, anytime a bank gets in trouble, the government is going to bail them out. But what about the everyday person that needs help? We do not get bailed out. Its just the opposite, we lose everything we have.

For things to change, there has to be a reduction in spending. The problem is, people that are drawing social benefits think they are entitled to something. I know for a fact there are people out there that know how to play the system. One baby gets grown and out the door, its time to squeeze out another one, just to keep the welfare checks and food stamps coming.

If there was a reduction in food stamps, or other welfare programs, there would be massive panic, outrage and protest in the streets.

Without food stamps, how do we expect people to eat? Can we really expect the freeloaders to get a job? Yea right, I seriously doubt it.

There are some people on food stamps that just need a helping hand, and that is fine.

Then there are the people who work the system, draw benefits from the government and have no intention of getting a job.

Foreign Aid

Then there is the foreign aid. Why are we sending money overseas when we have homeless and hungry people on our streets.

Foreign aid has been around for decades and its probably not going anywhere anytime soon.

Free trade

Free trade is a cancer that is eating away at our nation, and has been eating away for over close to 2 decades.

Obama is not going to do anything about free trade. Even if we elect a bunch of new people into congress they can not do anything about trade.

Trade is up to the president, and obama is not going to do anything about it.

In the past 4 years obama has made things worse for this nation.

Mandated insurance
obama signed HR 347, which established no free speech zones
obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act (Senate Bill 1867)

If anything, obama has striped more rights away from people then any other president.

We need to ask ourselves, do we need 4 more years of this?
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:15   #2
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What if obama is reelected, I would expect 4 more years of change, far more then we had in the last 4 years.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:48   #3
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Originally Posted by Jeff F View Post
What if obama is reelected, I would expect 4 more years of change, far more then we had in the last 4 years.
Now that is an open ended statement!Careful-the administration might take it to use for their re-election speech!
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:55   #4
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His statement to Medvedev proves what we're in for if he is reelected. Quite simply, we as a country will be phucked.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:24   #5
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Originally Posted by Sgt440 View Post
His statement to Medvedev proves what we're in for if he is reelected. Quite simply, we as a country will be phucked.
+1!

Can you say, "King Obama"???

This narcissist Marxist will try to unleash every socialist dream that was fed into his head and nurtured during his formative years.

As a result, the country will be thrown into civil strife, and possibly even civil war. The economy will collapse, and Obama will use this as the cornerstone to his assuming true dictatorial status.

Yeah, some might say I'm ratcheting-up the rhetoric. But, Sgt440 is 100% correct! And, I've said it before...

The problem with the Chicago Charlatan isn't that he doesn't tell us what he's going to do, it's just that most Americans are not listening AND/OR the Lame-A$$ media is complicit in his deeds.

The Russian open-mic SNAFU was very telling. And, it's all you need to know how this man-child views the American citizenry. Yet, he tries to shrug it off, joking about the incident. But, to use his own catch-phrase..."The horse is out of the barn!"

I mean, come on...the dude has basketballs with his friggin picture on it at this year's Easter event:

White House B-Balls Adorned With The One’s Image

WTF?!

Go on lib-progs...please try to tell me that does not represent the epitome of the "cult of personality"????

What's next, our currency? Then again, at this rate, the so-called bank notes that will have King Obama's picture on them will be as worthless as he is.

Wake-up, amigos!

The NEW Revolution is a-comin'...

DON'T TREAD ON ME!

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Old 04-16-2012, 11:49   #6
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I would say it's not ( if). But when. Not much is going to happen. Just like the last four years. Chicken littles. The top one percent will get more Gov. hand outs in the tax code. And that works for me. All my money is going offshore. Because after four years, the [email protected]!t is going to hit the fan. What are you worry about, " We only owe the money to ourselves" RR.
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Old 04-16-2012, 17:08   #7
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I'm going to take a 4 year vacation, and go on full blown welfare.

Since the 1% are hosed, and the middle is screwed, might as well NOT pay taxes for awhile, and live better than those who do work, and pay taxes at the low end.

It's not like there will be a job for me anyway. (Or tens of millions of others.)

Just ask Nancy, it's like having a job to be on welfare, it stimulates the economy...
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Old 04-17-2012, 13:43   #8
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If this nut gets re-elcted( or he steals the votes again) it will be the LAST time a president is elected to office in this country !! "WE THE PEOPLE" will never recover from this IDIOT !!
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Old 04-17-2012, 21:22   #9
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Some of what you said is a little bit off.

Excessive spending
Yes, we spend a lot. But remember, by Constitutional law, Congress is in charge of spending, not the President. The President can make a request but ultimately, it's Congress' responsibility to decide on what to spend on.

The TARP bailout program of 2008 wasn't entirely done by Obama. At that time George W Bush was still president and Obama was a senator. It's safe to say that the senators (including Obama) passed the TARP legislation that Pres. Bush signed into office.

TARP was written by the Senate and the House of Representatives. However, neither bodies of Congress took into consideration of funding smaller banks. They were primarily designated for the "Too Big to Fail" banks.

In the end, some banks like IndyMac, Washington Mutual, Wachovia did failed. And that was caused by incompetent leadership by the banks. Not by Bush or Obama.

Reduction in spending

You're right about this. Had we not been in 2 concurrent wars, we would not have spend so much money on the military. I place responsibility on Bush and the Congress for approving the Afghanistan war and the Iraq war.

However, I give Obama credit for ending the Iraq war. So, in theory, the money that was used in the Iraq war should be redirected either towards the Afghanistan war or back home. I won't speculate on whether or not the redirection is helping our economy.

Foreign Aid
Foreign aid is a consequence of the Marshall Plan of WWII. It's something this country has being doing because of that precedent. Unless politicians want to break away from tradition, it won't end anytime soon.

Free trade
This is mostly a result of Bill Clinton and some horrible, horrible lobbying. But I will say this: NAFTA has been beneficial to the US and Canada because we have a similar economy and government. It has not been beneficial to the US and Mexico because the economy and government is so... shall we say different from each other. It basically depends on who the trading partner is.

In the past 4 years obama has made things worse for this nation.
And the reason for this is because he was a rookie politician. We all knew he was. He had 1 year of experience as the senator of Illinois. He did nothing to help craft the TARP program. He completely misread the "economic indicators" about how bad the recession was. The Stimulus package had numerous pork spending. The Health Plan (Obamacare) took almost a year to complete. The housing market continued to crash. And on and on...

But that wasn't the real problem. The real problem is that the Democrats went GaGa for him. They didn't want Hillary Clinton to be president. So they did everything that they could think of to prevent her from being elected.

And you know what? They got what they deserved.

So if Obama is reelected, he would have to end the Afghanistan war and bring home the troops and money from that war. He would also have to increase the money for VA hospitals and housing.

He would have to increase taxes somewhere.
He would have to actually create jobs because Corporate America is too childish to do their job.
He would have to follow through on the green jobs or drill more.

In other words, he (or Romney) is going to have to make the tough decisions that aren't likely going to happen.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:36   #10
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Originally Posted by justsaying View Post
Some of what you said is a little bit off.
ForSoWrong, is that you buddy? LOL
Excessive spending
Yes, we spend a lot. But remember, by Constitutional law, Congress is in charge of spending, not the President. The President can make a request but ultimately, it's Congress' responsibility to decide on what to spend on.
Yes, Congress was in total control of the Democrats for the last two years of Bush W. and while the TARP laws were passed. Also spending when off the chart insane those last two years, and if you look at the wars, the Democrats spent that money, and supported the wars, in both cases, funding them completely. Indeed, many Democrats like Hillary Clinton are on record saying the Saddam must be removed from power etc.
The TARP bailout program of 2008 wasn't entirely done by Obama. At that time George W Bush was still president and Obama was a senator. It's safe to say that the senators (including Obama) passed the TARP legislation that Pres. Bush signed into office.
Yep, a Senate and House controled by Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, both rabid liberals, who are nearly as radical left as our current POTUS, Obama.
TARP was written by the Senate and the House of Representatives. However, neither bodies of Congress took into consideration of funding smaller banks. They were primarily designated for the "Too Big to Fail" banks.
Yep, who ran the Senate and House? Oh snap, that's the Democrats again! LOL And who gave the most to Democrats that election cycle? Oh wait! That's the big banks and Wall St.!! Oh no!
In the end, some banks like IndyMac, Washington Mutual, Wachovia did failed. And that was caused by incompetent leadership by the banks. Not by Bush or Obama.
BZZZT! Wrong, there buddy. It's not caused by incompetent leadership at the banks, they were profitable, and remain so today, very good leadership if you think about it. They, the banks are profitable, at the expense of the nation and taxpayers, but hey they are profitable, and guess what? The Democrats in large part made it possible with the laws they passed in the Congress they controlled. And what drove the housing bubble? What created the subprime lending debacle? Why it's easy to trace the roots of that back to the CRA, put into law by Carter, given more teeth by Clinton, and the absolute poster boy program for Dodd, Frank and that wonderful lady from CA, Williams. After all, HOUSING IS A RIGHT, right? We as American tax payers can and should subsidize the right for everyone, especially those that can't afford it, to have a house they own, cheap mortages and just back up the entire house of cards with a few "unofficial" lenders like Freddy/Fannie... It's all a great investment says Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and anyone who says otherwise is a racist and mean to poor people of color...
Reduction in spending

You're right about this. Had we not been in 2 concurrent wars, we would not have spend so much money on the military. I place responsibility on Bush and the Congress for approving the Afghanistan war and the Iraq war.
Again, for so wrong... LOL Spending on the two wars is less than a trillion dollars total. We spend that much and then some EVERY YEAR now as a nation on entitlement programs. That is welfare spending. We have for many decades now as a nation, spent over 15 trillion dollars on the war to end poverty in America, and it's done what? Poverty rates are up currently, and over time, it's perhaps changed the rate by 3% total. Even a Democrat can't defend numbers like that, going from just under 18% poverty in the early 60's to 15% poverty today after spending over 15 trillion dollars in the process? Spending responsibly is not a high point for Democrats now is it?
However, I give Obama credit for ending the Iraq war. So, in theory, the money that was used in the Iraq war should be redirected either towards the Afghanistan war or back home. I won't speculate on whether or not the redirection is helping our economy.
Yes, Bush W. had the plan all laid out, and Obama followed it, but failed to keep victory, as he snatched defeat from the battlefield, and has walked away leaving Iraq to potential civl war and strife as Iran the Kurds and other factions in Iraq fill the power vacume left when the USA rolled off into the sunset with Obama.
Foreign Aid
Foreign aid is a consequence of the Marshall Plan of WWII. It's something this country has being doing because of that precedent. Unless politicians want to break away from tradition, it won't end anytime soon.
I don't agree. It will end because we can't afford it anymore, the 15 trillion we have spent on poverty's war is bankrupting our nation.
Free trade
This is mostly a result of Bill Clinton and some horrible, horrible lobbying. But I will say this: NAFTA has been beneficial to the US and Canada because we have a similar economy and government. It has not been beneficial to the US and Mexico because the economy and government is so... shall we say different from each other. It basically depends on who the trading partner is.
NAFTA has been hard on employment, but not nearly as tough as the anti-business attitude of our current POTUS.
In the past 4 years obama has made things worse for this nation.
And the reason for this is because he was a rookie politician. We all knew he was. He had 1 year of experience as the senator of Illinois. He did nothing to help craft the TARP program. He completely misread the "economic indicators" about how bad the recession was. The Stimulus package had numerous pork spending. The Health Plan (Obamacare) took almost a year to complete. The housing market continued to crash. And on and on...
Obama's lack of executive experience is only part of it. His devout following of socialism and promoting of his "green energy" at the expense of reality while attacking business and traditional energy 24/7 has further extended any bad economy he was handed by Bush W. (Who himself was gutted in large part by the media who pushed the economy button as hard as they could, to get Obama elected, and in the process, raised the fear, and drove the markets lower than they should have gone..
But that wasn't the real problem. The real problem is that the Democrats went GaGa for him. They didn't want Hillary Clinton to be president. So they did everything that they could think of to prevent her from being elected.

And you know what? They got what they deserved.

So if Obama is reelected, he would have to end the Afghanistan war and bring home the troops and money from that war. He would also have to increase the money for VA hospitals and housing.

He would have to increase taxes somewhere.
He would have to actually create jobs because Corporate America is too childish to do their job.Yep, that is working great eh? LOL NOT.
He would have to follow through on the green jobs or drill more.
No, he will just force you and I to use less by reducing supply, and driving up demand/prices.
In other words, he (or Romney) is going to have to make the tough decisions that aren't likely going to happen.
Romney will not be Obama.

Watch and see.
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Old 04-18-2012, 19:28   #11
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ForSoWrong, is that you buddy? LOL
Not sure who you're referring to.

BZZZT! Wrong, there buddy. It's not caused by incompetent leadership at the banks, they were profitable, and remain so today, very good leadership if you think about it.
Those banks are not profitable because of a good economy. Washington Mutual and Wachovia no longer exist because of bad leadership. So bad that their banks had to merge with Chase and Wells Fargo. Indymac collapsed altogether.

Bank of America is profitable for a number of reasons. 1. When the banks collapsed, the customers had to find a new bank. Some of them chose BoA. 2. Banking fees skyrocketed - bounced checks, atm fees, etc. 3. Tarp money. 4. They acquired other banks and institutions (some of it with Tarp money I believe)

That's not good leadership. That's taking advantage of a bad situation.

It's all a great investment says Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and anyone who says otherwise is a racist and mean to poor people of color...
Those people were just idiot politicians so...

Again, for so wrong... LOL Spending on the two wars is less than a trillion dollars total.
When Clinton was president, we had a budget surplus in part because of the Pay As You Go Plan. What great idea did Bush come up with? To end PayGo and to give a tax cut to the wealthy. If I'm not mistaken, all of this occurred during a Republican-led Congress with a Republican President.

And then to make things worse, Congress allows 2 concurrent wars without properly budgeting for either of them. When the Democrats took over Congress and had a chance to make things right, well they just continued the status quo.

Even if spending on the 2 wars is less than a trillion, would you want that to go to waste? Maybe that money could help to crack down on medicare fraud or to help drill for more oil. Some sort of reinvestment back into THIS country, not to the Middle East. The wars were just the wrong priority for this country when Bin Laden was hiding out in plain sight basically in Pakistan all those years.

Spending responsibly is not a high point for ANYONE. And if Iraq goes into civil war and falls apart, so be it. We put in how many years into that country. That's their responsibility now.

NAFTA has been hard on employment, but not nearly as tough as the anti-business attitude of our current POTUS.

To be honest, that something to be expected of a lawyer, given that it's his true background.

He would have to follow through on the green jobs or drill more.
No, he will just force you and I to use less by reducing supply, and driving up demand/prices

I refuse to use less. I personally don't have an addiction to gas/oil. I live in Florida and this state is not known for having reliable transportation other than a car. Therefore by necessity, I have to have a car and buy gas regardless of demand and supply. I simply refuse it.

Romney will not be Obama.
If Obama is incompetent and Romney is incompetent, then yes Romney will be like Obama.
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Old 04-19-2012, 13:54   #12
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Romney is not Obama.

Let's look at this first.

Romney is very wealthy on money he made himself by taking companies, and capital, and buiding them up, or selling them off, depending on what made the most sense. (This is called capitalism, and works very well when left alone.)
Romney was a conservative Gov. in a very liberal State, and still managed to get many positive things acomplished. I'm not a fan of "Romney Care" but it was what the state leaders wanted, and I think Mitt did the best he could with what he had. The leadership in the State was over 85% Democrat while Romney was Gov.
Romney has worked for decades as a leader in is religion for zero pay, often 40 or 50 hours a week, and this type of service can't be ignored, as it's not very common for people to do things for no monetary gain, he's done it to serve his fellowman.
Indeed, Romney has a long history of taking on challenges, and solving them. Not just solving them, but improving them, and building on the positives.

Obama on the other hand?
He's spent his term as POTUS cultivating race, gender and income hate.
He along with Pelosi and Reid, have crammed a healthcare bill down the craw of Americans that HATE the "Obama Care" across the board.
Obama participated for 20+ years in Black Liberation Theology, and only when it was expedient, did he throw his personal mentor, a Black Racist and America hater, Rev. Wright under the bus.
Obama's time being a "community organizer" with groups like ACCORN, forced even more subprime loans, and further set the housing market up to fail, and fail big.
Obama wants to redistrubte wealth, end poverty by taking from the rich, and giving to the poor, and clean up the planet by ending our dependence on coal power, oil and natural gas. His solution is to force everyone to use less, pay for more expensive forms of energy such as wind, solar and hope that some day, alge is an alternative to oil....
Obama does not understand how companies and the economy work. He thinks it is fine to go into a failing company, such as GM, and save it by massive spending from the Fed. Just keep every union worker employed, and throw the investors under the bus. Throw conservative dealers under the bus too, and shut them down. Call it reorganizing, and setup a company to profit off the backs of the very peolle who no longer will buy their crappy vehicles, the American Taxpayers.
IN this plan, you as Obama, raise the budget to all new highs, not just a few percent, but massive amounts, pushing trillions of stimulus and excessive spending..
Then act supprised when the green jobs fail in real world competition, the car companies you bailed out don't do what you want, and create jobs in the USA, but move much of their production offshore...
Further, Obama does not understand free markets, so he tries to obstruct a company like Boeing from building aircraft in a State with more favorable labor laws, taxes and regulations.. This is your mantra as Obama, hate on companies, big oil, and energy that works, but lavishly throw our tax money away on bogus BS ideas, and companies that WE KNEW WERE GOING TO FAIL like Solyndra along with others...

Obama and Romney are not the same. Sure they are both humans, but on a life experience, values and outlook on life?

Not very similar at all beyond the fact they are both politicians.
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Old 04-20-2012, 01:46   #13
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^Adjuster I would like to say....... You nailed it!!!!
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Old 04-21-2012, 18:07   #14
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Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
Obama does not understand how companies and the economy work. He thinks it is fine to go into a failing company, such as GM, and save it by massive spending from the Fed. Just keep every union worker employed, and throw the investors under the bus. Throw conservative dealers under the bus too, and shut them down. Call it reorganizing, and setup a company to profit off the backs of the very peolle who no longer will buy their crappy vehicles, the American Taxpayers.
IN this plan, you as Obama, raise the budget to all new highs, not just a few percent, but massive amounts, pushing trillions of stimulus and excessive spending..
Then act surprised when the green jobs fail in real world competition, the car companies you bailed out don't do what you want, and create jobs in the USA, but move much of their production offshore...
You're right. This is how capitalism works.

First you say this is how capitalism works when left alone. But when it is left alone, the car industry almost collapse and it's Obama's fault for bailing them out. While at the same time, the industry doesn't do what you want and send jobs offshore.

Then you say Obama "hate on companies, big oil, and energy that works". When actually, there has been more oil production under his presidency than ever before. We're even exporting oil now. As for coal and other forms of energy, yep he's clueless.

However, there was that explosion in the coal mine in West Virginia and the BP oil spill both in the year 2010. So those two events might be a setback, out of Obama's control.

Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
Obama and Romney are not the same. Sure they are both humans, but on a life experience, values and outlook on life?

Not very similar at all beyond the fact they are both politicians.
Look, I think we can both agree that Obama is a rookie that should never have become president. But that's my point. George W. Bush was a rookie as well. And even though he had a background in business, he wasn't able to prevent the Great Recession. He did very little in his last year of presidency and was only able to come up with Tarp.

So now we have Romney, again another business person with a not so great record as governor. A person who is a corporate raider. A politician that introduced Romneycare. Someone claiming a selfless act of not receiving a salary or a paycheck.

The thing is when you take stock options instead of a paycheck, you pay a lower tax rate. So it may seem like he was doing something great, but in reality, he was just lowering his taxes. Even less-so with the Bush tax cuts that are still in effect today.

As I said before, incompetence is incompetence. Just because Obama's professional background is a lawyer and Romney's professional background is a businessman, they are both incompetent.
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:43   #15
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The Bush tax cuts if repealed would do virtually nothing to the federal deficit ...The problem is that we have an administration that is hell bent on subjugating us and making us wards of the nanny state .. It is about freedom, just saying ..Welcome to the board ..hope ya got your big boy britches on ..

My question for you is one that I have asked others on the left. What are you doing on a pro second ammendment board if you support those who will take your 2nd rights away from you?
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:34   #16
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Talking Here's what I think !

Here we go again , with all that Doomsday crap !

I think some here should either learn how to vote or think about moving !
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:44   #17
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Who said anything about doomsday ?.. Your President was raised as a marxist and his adminsitration is filled with avowed socialists. Everything he has tried to do since he has been in office is designed to increase the size of government and as such will increase its power over you .. If you want to hide your head in the sand or some other place then feel free.. If you want to move feel free. I personally will do everything I can, including voting to stop this incremental usurpation of my constitutional rights...
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Old 04-22-2012, 16:11   #18
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Originally Posted by shootnpoot View Post
Who said anything about doomsday ?.. Your President was raised as a marxist and his adminsitration is filled with avowed socialists. Everything he has tried to do since he has been in office is designed to increase the size of government and as such will increase its power over you .. If you want to hide your head in the sand or some other place then feel free.. If you want to move feel free. I personally will do everything I can, including voting to stop this incremental usurpation of my constitutional rights...
You must hate commies so much that you are calling anyone who doesn't agree with your thinking a Commie , now that socialist thinking !

I know that we got more gun rights under this President to stop the anti-gun Republicans who started another war , while we were involved already in one !

This guy is no doubt the right guy over a socialist Republicans candidate , especially the one that's left , as under him it will no doubt be an anything goes deal !

I feel a victory for we Democrats , cause the other side is lead by the blind !

I'm against the commies , such as those Republicans who care less about the middle-class working folks !
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Old 04-22-2012, 20:16   #19
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Originally Posted by justsaying View Post
You're right. This is how capitalism works.

First you say this is how capitalism works when left alone. But when it is left alone, the car industry almost collapse and it's Obama's fault for bailing them out. While at the same time, the industry doesn't do what you want and send jobs offshore.
GM was in trouble long before Obama came along, and so was Chrysler, but the reality is, had we NOT bailed them out, the viable parts would have been bought up by investors, and the UNIONS would be SOL. And so would many thousands of folks who paid into those union pensions, and have very rich/expensive retirement programs thanks to the American Tax payer today. That is not capitolism at work, that's socialism, and trying to equalize outcomes when it's not the government that should be doing any of that at all.
Then you say Obama "hate on companies, big oil, and energy that works". When actually, there has been more oil production under his presidency than ever before. We're even exporting oil now. As for coal and other forms of energy, yep he's clueless.Ah, here is the simple truth. Millions of private oil wells in this country ONLY pump/produce more than they need to break even when the prices are high. So, when oil is 40.00 per barrel, they idle, or only pump enough oil to maintain the well, and it's a write off for wealthy investors. (I used to sell stripper wells like this in the 80's actually.) But, new technology, fracking for one, has taken wells that were considered tapped out, depleted, and beyond their prime, and restored flow in many to amounts ABOVE what they produced when the well was new. So, a private well owner who bought it in the 80's when it was only capable of 30 per day, now might be doing 300 per day. At 100.00 a barrel, that's money, and they have used it to frack other wells, and buy up more idle ones. Again, this fossil fuel theory that we were all taught in school is flawed, and bogus. Oil is aboigenic, and when wells are cleaned out, fracked and drilled to the right depth, they produce much more oil than was thought possible based on fossil theory.. Proof positive around the world, and even here where PRIVATE wells have made up the gap in supply to a point, and we are selling off refined products to markets willing to pay more for them.

However, there was that explosion in the coal mine in West Virginia and the BP oil spill both in the year 2010. So those two events might be a setback, out of Obama's control.His response to both was wrong. It set back drilling and production by the USA in the GoM for decades, perhaps more, as it takes decades to get drilling platforms back from where they are moved to now. (If they ever come back.) And it takes many years to build new ones. Obama was/is a fool on this basic fact. Actually, I think he does not care what folks pay at the pump, and has said as much on more than one recording, the dumbass. Indeed, he wants to bankrupt coal, and drive up energy costs to force people to conserve.

Worse, if his cap and trade(Tax) program had gone into law, the carbon exhange, owned mostly by WALL ST. would be skimming off trillions in new "taxes" on the cost of the energy right now. Yay for Socialism right? It's not like the carbon exhange would have improved our climate, or envionrment, but it would have made many rich folks much richer at our expense.



Look, I think we can both agree that Obama is a rookie that should never have become president. But that's my point. George W. Bush was a rookie as well. And even though he had a background in business, he wasn't able to prevent the Great Recession. He did very little in his last year of presidency and was only able to come up with Tarp.Ah, the last two years of GWB's rule, we had who in control completely of Congress? Oh, that's right, the Democrats. And in those two years, they spent how much? And GWB had zero control of it in reality. Indeed, the GWB Administrations attempts to reform CRA and the lending/loans by Freddy/Fannie were called racist, and we as a nation were told by guys like Dodd, Obama and Frank, that a housing investment was riskless, and never would fail....

So now we have Romney, again another business person with a not so great record as governor. A person who is a corporate raider. A politician that introduced Romneycare. Someone claiming a selfless act of not receiving a salary or a paycheck.Do some research, on his religion alone, Romney does not get paid, yet has worked many decades, 40+ hours a week for zip when it comes to income. Indeed, he gave them 10% of his income! That's absolutely not democratic at all...

The thing is when you take stock options instead of a paycheck, you pay a lower tax rate. So it may seem like he was doing something great, but in reality, he was just lowering his taxes. Even less-so with the Bush tax cuts that are still in effect today.I have zero problems that Romney made hundreds of millions, and now can do as he wants on his residual income alone. I'm happy to have a guy who will work for free, or clearly is not doing it for the power or money, but because he wants to get our nation back on a track to where MORE PEOPLE are doing better, not dependent on welfare, food stamps or unemployment.

As I said before, incompetence is incompetence. Just because Obama's professional background is a lawyer and Romney's professional background is a businessman, they are both incompetent.
Yep, George Washington, and all Presidents since then have been incompetent by your rules it appears.
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Old 04-22-2012, 20:21   #20
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Originally Posted by shootnpoot View Post
My question for you is one that I have asked others on the left. What are you doing on a pro second ammendment board if you support those who will take your 2nd rights away from you?
Actually, I'm more of an independent. Although I'd like to say I'm republican, they've been obstructing government for the past few years now. As for the democrats, they're simply elitists. I cannot stand elitists.

And if anyone tries to take away my rights, they have another thing coming.
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Old 04-22-2012, 20:23   #21
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Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
Yep, George Washington, and all Presidents since then have been incompetent by your rules it appears.
Not Abraham Lincoln.

Especially Not Abraham Lincoln.
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Old 04-22-2012, 20:26   #22
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One more detail about oil.

The loss of production from the stalled/cancelled/outlawed drilling the GoM is not often talked about in the media. (Of course not, it's scary, and the MSM does not want to upset folks over their favorite son, Obama.)

We have lost years of drilling, and more important, have lost the rigs that do the work. Where did they go? Well, they have been moved to places in the GoM, outside US water/territory, and will drill there, and sell the oil and refined products to the global market, but the USA will get ZERO from that oil production. We will just pay and pay and pay for it.

Do you guys realize how much money the USA makes from oil production on federal lands? It's insane how many hundreds of billions the USA makes on oil before it's even refined. Then it makes money on the refined product, and the sale of that product to the consumers. It's taxed many times in the process of going from the ground to the tank, and most folks don't even think about the loss of that income....

Obama for one of them.

So, the 45 billion he will get from the "rich" paying their fair share on his flawed "Buffett rule" tax plan? It's nothing compared to the LOSS of tax income the FEDS have LOST since Obama banned drilling in the GoM, and has slowwalked the permit process, effectively shutting down drilling on federal lands...

What an idiot Obama is.
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Old 04-22-2012, 21:19   #23
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Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
GM was in trouble long before Obama came along, and so was Chrysler, but the reality is, had we NOT bailed them out, the viable parts would have been bought up by investors, and the UNIONS would be SOL.
That is my point. When capitalism was LEFT ALONE, the car industry nearly collapsed. How is this Obama's fault? That was bad management on the part of the car industry.

So new technology/processing comes around and increases oil production through Fracking. As for new refineries being built, who's responsible for NOT BUILDING them? That would be Corporate America. Not Obama, not even Congress (that I know of).

Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
His response to both was wrong. It set back drilling and production by the USA in the GoM for decades, perhaps more, as it takes decades to get drilling platforms back from where they are moved to now. (If they ever come back.)
How was his response wrong? It was an environmental disaster. Are you saying he should keep drilling when there's an environmental disaster that killed 11 people, killed all sorts of wildlife and polluted the water to the point that the tourism industry and fishing industry was nearly ruined.

Saving one industry (oil) at the detriment of two other industries (tourism and fishing) is not sound politics. Especially with the unemployment we have. But I admit, there may have been several missteps in the process.

Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
Ah, the last two years of GWB's rule, we had who in control completely of Congress? Oh, that's right, the Democrats. And in those two years, they spent how much? And GWB had zero control of it in reality.
In the last decade, Congress was controlled by both democrats and republicans. Both did very little to curb spending, considering Bill Clinton left his administration in a budget Surplus, not Deficit.

Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
Do some research, on his religion alone, Romney does not get paid, yet has worked many decades, 40+ hours a week for zip when it comes to income. Indeed, he gave them 10% of his income! That's absolutely not democratic at all...
How is his personal life relevant to politics?

Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
I have zero problems that Romney made hundreds of millions, and now can do as he wants on his residual income alone. I'm happy to have a guy who will work for free, or clearly is not doing it for the power or money, but because he wants to get our nation back on a track to where MORE PEOPLE are doing better, not dependent on welfare, food stamps or unemployment.
If you're okay with a corporate raider, that's fine. I have no problems with that myself actually. But to say he wants to get our nation back on track, that's another thing. The only one that can truly do that is Corporate American. That's if they stop being greedy and hoarding cash, issuing out stock options so that investors can pay less taxes, stop nickel and diming the bank fees, stop using bi-lingual employment only or good credit check as a reason to not hire people and all those other tricks to keep people down.

It seems that you don't want to hold Corporate America responsible for anything. Even if they are lobbying in Wash, DC for whatever they want. That's ok. It's your choice. But to keep putting responsibility on Obama and the Democrats is just your way of seeing the glass half empty.
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Old 04-22-2012, 21:33   #24
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Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
Do you guys realize how much money the USA makes from oil production on federal lands? It's insane how many hundreds of billions the USA makes on oil before it's even refined. Then it makes money on the refined product, and the sale of that product to the consumers. It's taxed many times in the process of going from the ground to the tank, and most folks don't even think about the loss of that income....
That's how refineries work. First you grow and harvest wheat. Then you sell it to a refinery and turn it into flour. Then you sell flour to the bakery and make bread.

And since oil has many byproducts (gas, petroleum, certain plastics), it will get taxed many times.

Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
So, the 45 billion he will get from the "rich" paying their fair share on his flawed "Buffett rule" tax plan? It's nothing compared to the LOSS of tax income the FEDS have LOST since Obama banned drilling in the GoM, and has slowwalked the permit process, effectively shutting down drilling on federal lands...
So you're saying since the Buffett rule is flawed, Obama shouldn't try generating revenue at all? I guess the subsidies to oil companies should also continue even though they may be flawed as well.

Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
What an idiot Obama is.
I'm not arguing with that. I actually agree.
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:45   #25
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I guess the subsidies to oil companies should also continue even though they may be flawed as well.
There are no "subsidies" to oil companies. That is just another liberal lie. The oil companies get the same tax deductions as every other large corporation. Not the same as a subsidy.
That is my point. When capitalism was LEFT ALONE, the car industry nearly collapsed.
GM was not "the car industry". It was just one player in the game. Ford is doing just fine without any bailout money. If a business can't stay ahead they should go under. There is no such thing as too big to fail.
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