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Old 03-10-2012, 08:23   #1
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Human Compassion VS Capitalism

The question is, can capitalism in the US survive in its current form? When human compassion, morals and values are cast to the side in favor of making money, then no, capitalism can not survive.

Capitalism can survive as long as there is no greed. The problem is, we have been taught that greed is a part of society. Almost daily we read about some bank, investment broker or some con-artist scamming people out of millions of dollars. Greed is so much a part of our society, that we are becoming desensitized to it. We expect banks to raise fees, we expect to lose money in our 401k, we expect to pay high interest rates on credit cards,,,,.

We expect it to the point were its just a part of life. If you want an example, there was a scientific study that was delayed for 17 years by special interest groups. The companies were more interested in protecting their money, then the health and safety of the employees.

The problem is, greed should not be part of life.

I think the days of making an honest living are behind us. Instead of everyone being able to earn an honest days wage, companies look to squeeze, cheat, lie, con,,,, every penny they can.

Look at all of the people that were conned into signing flexible mortgage rates. The banks knew what they were doing. Get the people to sign the flexible mortgage, then hike the rates up so high the family can not pay, the bank gets the home, rinse, repeat,,,,.

Look at apple raking in billions in profits, but contracts out the production of apple products to cheap labor in china. Would there be anything wrong with having ipads and ipods made in the USA?

I think capitalism can work, but not while unbridled greed is involved.

We reap what we sew. The US government established free trade with China, now we get to reap higher taxes to pay for more people on welfare. Its funny how that works out. Companies looking for low wage workers sends our jobs overseas, the US economy slowly goes into a recession. Manufacturing jobs that supported the middle class for centuries are shipped offshore, middle class starts to shrink.

Greed is the great destroyer, it lays waste to everything in its path. It is the destroyer of jobs, of families, and of lives. Regardless of what you have been taught, greed is bad.

If you want an example of what greed does, watch the movie Germinal .

If society was like a bee hive, we would be a lot better off. Each person working for the good of the whole.

Instead of working together to improve our overall standard of living, we are like dogs that fight over every scarp of meat.

Making billions is ok, I have no objection to that. Its when people are exploited is when the problem starts.

Is it ok for an oil company to make millions off an oil well, but in return the ground water is polluted? The people that depend on that ground water are then deprived of safe drinking water.

I feel there is a line in the sand that capitalism should not cross.

That oil company has a right to make money, but not at the cost of polluting the water others depend on.

As people creep down the social ladder, sooner or later they have nothing to lose. Then some of them might turn to drug use, stealing,,,, other petty crimes.

Then there is the health issue. The lower a persons income, the less likely they are to seek medical treatment, which in turn becomes a breeding ground of diseases like TB.

Lets compare capitalism to freedom of speech – Just because someone has freedom to say certain things does not mean they can yell “fire” in a crowded theater.

That is how I see capitalism.

Just because someone has the right to make money, does not give them the right to exploit others. Nor does it give those with money the right to exploit the less fortunate.

What is a fair wage? If you want a number, lets use 30. When the highest paid employee makes more then 30X the lowest paid employee/contractor/sub-contractor, the lowest paid person is being exploited.

Example:

Company ABC makes widgets; highest paid employee makes $30 million a year, the lowest paid sub-contractor of a sub-contractor should make $1 million a year, give or take a few bucks.

In before “would I consider 29X exploiting”, the answer is no.

When I went to work for a welding shop in 1987, the family that owned the shop raked in millions in profits every year. This is while the employees were being hired at $5 – $8 an hour. At least the employees got health insurance and vacation time, but no retirement or 401k. We did not even get dental insurance.

We will never reach a perfect balance between wages and profits.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with making money. But on the other hand, there is something wrong when the spread of wealth is lopsided.

I can not justify how a single person can be worth billions of dollars, or even hundreds of millions.
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:04   #2
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Wow-Kevin!I'll try to address some of this;People are into the greed thing and the dogs fighting over a scrap of meat type of behavior-in part due to our modern way of doing business on an international level and the mindsets learned from doing business with "internationalist groups".I really believe that it is a learned behavior.Look even at the driving habits of people today-cut you off,ride your rear bumper,no use of turn signals in advance of turning,total give a eff,I got mine so-eff you attitudes on the freeways.Then you can look at the markets and the malls-shoving and pushing to get in and then push and grab conflicts for whatever the "hot" items are for the sale.Courtesy is basically out the window nowadays in most large metro areas.Now even in some of the more rural areas you see this kind of "crap"-again because it is from somebody that has been to the urban areas and brought it to the country!As far as one person with millions of bucks-more power to them if they earned it fairly and did'nt rip off the company,insurance,401k,retirement fund,or fire the lesser people and send the jobs overseas.Oh yea and powerball and all other lottery winners are cool too!I could handle winning 50M$-and I dang sure would'nt have to share it with anyone either-except the tax leaches!
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:45   #3
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Kevin, you sound like Socialism is the cure to Capitolism in many parts of your posts, and that's a flawed desire.

Here's why: Motivation.

I'll take the examples you gave, of widget production and a welding shop.

If you build widgets, you have to compete for buyers, so yours have to be superior in quality, or lower in price. Since the two don't always go together, you either have low costs, or a monopoloy on the production of a superior product. Since monopoloies are illegal, and really, you can just locate the factory to a place that does not honor the laws, and break the monopoly, labor becomes the major factor in costs, along with land, taxes and we will call it the economic conditions where your factory is located.

SO, if you build your factory in a country with high taxes, high labor costs and restrictive work laws, you are instantly at an disadvantage to any other competitor.

This is not JUST Capitalism, it's reality. It is just as true under Comunism as it is under Capitalism.

What is the lowest amount you can pay your workers, and still get a product that can compete on the market for that product? What is the lowest quality? What corners can you cut? What is your competition doing?

That is reality, and always will be.

Now to welding. If I start a shop, and risk my capital, house/money/assets to be the "boss" and then hire cheap labor to make what I sell, or provide to my customers, I have to as the boss, balance the same factors that the factory making "widgets" does.

Too many workers, and I pay too much for too little production. Too few, and I can't make my orders. Quality has to be comparable to the competition, and in the case of the shop you described, in your market, the owner felt he needed to provide the benefits he did to keep the quality of workers he needed to run his company.

That the owner makes millions is not the concern of the guy making 5.00 hour welding up metal on jigs all day long.

That person in our system, has every ability to save up, get the capital together, and start their own company to compete with his former boss, and make millions himself.

What he will find is that even when the company brings in millions, that's not what the boss makes. And while that 5.00 per hour worker has a regular paycheck, often those that run the company don't. They might make a ton of money, or go broke, but many that I've known often say it would be cheaper, and less work to just go get a job again, and a steady paycheck.

But some do make it, and they make it big.

Your assertion that there should be some cap on how big they can make it is SOCIALISM, and it's what kills growth, drives down the economy, and is dare I say it, anti American.

Yep, the idea that we should limit the ability of anyone to make as much money as they want, is Anti American.

When you put limits on what people can achive, you stifle motivation, and that kills millions of jobs for others who would have ended up working for the "Apple" or "GE" or "Boeing" that is next to come along.
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Old 03-10-2012, 13:45   #4
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And I might add Kevin, that Workers Compensation and liability laws force compliance of safety regualtions. They also represent a large post profit expense in premiums. Not to mention business owners have the OSHA folks and the IRS waiting in the wings to fine a company for any discretions or sieze hard earned assets.

The bottom line is that the entreprenuer has a great deal more at risk than joe blow worker bee. If you risk more your reward is and should be a bigger payout.

Is socialism ever better ? First and foremost freedom is stifled....motivation to succeed is trampled and what production there is is inefficient...any wealth accumulated goes to the government and is redistibuted how others see fit, usually in some small snippet to the populace while the ruling class flits around in opulence ...

How many non-profits or charities are annuitized by wealthy Americans ? I am sick of this class warfare BS. Give me free marklet capitalism any day.
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Old 03-10-2012, 13:47   #5
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Freedom can be messy as life itself is, not everyone is cutout for it, at least we still get to choose our own destiny and how we want to get there.



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Old 03-10-2012, 17:02   #6
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Wow, tons of food for thought here.

Right now I'm just going to add, regarding:

Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
We expect it to the point were its just a part of life. If you want an example, there was a scientific study that was delayed for 17 years by special interest groups. The companies were more interested in protecting their money, then the health and safety of the employees.
The example of formaldehyde:
Koch sits on the advisory board of the National Cancer Institute—a position he was appointed to in 2004 by President Bush, reported The New Yorker.

The National Cancer Institute published a study in 2009 concluding that formaldehyde causes cancer in humans. Here’s The New Yorker, describing that study’s findings:

The study tracked twenty-five thousand patients for an average of forty years; subjects exposed to higher amounts of formaldehyde had significantly higher rates of leukemia. These results helped lead an expert panel within the National Institutes of Health to conclude that formaldehyde should be categorized as a known carcinogen, and be strictly controlled by the government.

As we’ve noted, prior to the May 2009 study, the National Cancer Institute had also performed a preliminary study that linked formaldehyde to leukemia, but members of Congress including Sens. James Inhofe, R-Okla., and David Vitter, R-La., managed to delay the EPA from officially designating the chemical as a “known carcinogen.”
Company Owned By Cancer Research Donor Lobbied Against Designation of Formaldehyde as Carcinogen - ProPublica


WASHINGTON, D.C. April 8, 2011 - Congress, at the request of industry, has managed to delay efforts by the federal Environmental Protection Agency to classify formaldehyde as a known human carcinogen, a significant step for public health protection that other U.S. and international scientific and public health agencies have already taken.

Today the National Academies of Science's National Research Council (NRC) completed its independent review of EPA's draft assessment and confirmed formaldehyde as a known cause of cancer of the nose, nasal cavity and throat. However, a final assessment by EPA will likely see further delay as the NRC concluded it "needs substantial revisions".

EPA, which currently classifies the substance as a probable human carcinogen, first began a revision of its formaldehyde toxicity assessment in 1998, but efforts by some in Congress have slowed the process to a crawl. The latest intervention came from Louisiana Senator David Vitter (R) who in 2009 asked EPA for an independent review of its DRAFT assessment of possible health risks to humans from formaldehyde exposure by the NRC, and held up EPA political nominations until his request was granted.

"Formaldehyde is a case study in EPA paralysis. Despite being widely acknowledged as causing cancer, political meddling and endless review have stalled agency efforts to reduce consumer and worker exposures," said EWG senior scientist David Andrews, Ph.D. "In 2008, the Government Accountability Office highlighted formaldehyde as one of three pressing examples of political interference hindering the Agency's efforts to "complete timely, credible assessments" for hazardous chemicals. Further delays in EPA's formaldehyde assessment mean more risk to consumers, and more cancer."


Formaldehyde is used in a vast array of industrial and consumer products, and there is widespread agreement that consumer exposures must be reduced to protect health. According to ICIS, an international chemical market research firm, nearly two-thirds of the formaldehyde market is for resins to make construction materials such as plywood, particle board, fiber board, laminate flooring, and insulation and for vehicles coatings and brake linings. Other major uses include plastics for electronic, automotive and consumer goods, polyurethane foam, and adhesives and sealants for construction and consumer goods.
National Academy of Sciences: Formaldehyde Causes Cancer
EWG: Review of EPA Health Assessment Should Not Delay Final Action



LGF Pages - Koch Brothers Exposed: Cancer Risk In Crossett Arkansas Blamed On Georgia Pacific
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Old 03-10-2012, 17:16   #7
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Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
... Since monopoloies are illegal ...


Checking Merger Mania | The Reagan Assault on Antitrust

It is now twenty-five years since the Reagan Administration eviscerated America's century-long tradition of antitrust enforcement. For a generation, big firms have enjoyed almost complete license to use brute economic force to grow only bigger. And so today we find ourselves in a world dominated by immense global oligopolies that every day further limit the flexibility of our economy and our personal freedom within it.
Breaking the chain: The antitrust case against Wal-Mart, By Barry C. Lynn (Harper's Magazine)
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Old 03-10-2012, 17:47   #8
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Don't worry, be poor!

Because once the left is through with this country we will be.

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Old 03-11-2012, 07:57   #9
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I've said it before...

The energy policy of this administration will be the proverbial "nail in the coffin" for OWingNut's 2012 campaign.
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:07   #10
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Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Personally, I see nothing wrong with making money. But on the other hand, there is something wrong when the spread of wealth is lopsided.

I can not justify how a single person can be worth billions of dollars, or even hundreds of millions.
I urge you take an economics course before proposing caps on personal income, or anything else for that matter.

If you could only make $500 a month running this website, Kevin, how much time and effort would you put into it?

If I can only make $1,000,0000 a year by producing goods and services to the free-market, what's my incentive to grow my business beyond that?

Does my business not produce jobs, tax dollars, charitable donations, and overall well-being for the community? Yet, would there not be a dis-incentive put in place by a cap on my personal income?

Lastly, who decides how much people can earn?

"Glass ceilings" don't work!

~ Brought to you by ECON 101.
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:37   #11
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In corporatist America, the short term profit of the few trumps the long-term well-being of all of us. And right wing dupes are the disease's enablers.


U.S. researchers find Roundup chemical in water, air | Reuters

Why Monsanto Thought Weeds Would Never Defeat Roundup : The Salt : NPR


Monsanto is notorious but it is no exception. Ruthless disregard for human health and well-being is typical of big business, because profit above all else dictates how big business operates. And big business extorts or has hijacked nearly every part of government. Our environment is under sustained assault from the plutocracy, and they are merciless towards anyone who tries to stop it.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:02   #12
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Berman's thesis is worth considering.

March 7, 2012

Several years after the Wall Street-ignited crisis began, the nation’s top bank CEOs (who far out-accumulated their European and other international counterparts) continue to hobnob with the president at campaign dinners where each plate costs more than one out of four US households make in a year. Financial bigwigs lead their affluent lives, unaffected, unremorseful, and unindicted for wreaking havoc on the nation. Why? Because they won. They hustled better. They are living the American Dream.

This is not the American Dream that says if you work hard you can be more comfortable than your parents; but rather, if you connive well, game the rules, and rule the game, your take from others is unlimited. In this paradigm, human empathy, caring, compassion, and connection have been devalued from the get-go. This is the flaw in the entire premise of the American Dream: if we can have it all, it must by definition be at someone else’s expense.
...

... It is not just the American Dream that has failed, but America itself, because the dream was a mistake in the first place. We are at our core a nation of hustlers; not recently, not sometimes, but always. Conventional wisdom has it that America was predicated on the republican desire to break free from monarchical tyranny, and that was certainly a factor in the War of Independence; but in practical terms, it came down to a drive for "more" -- for individual accumulation of wealth.
...

The crux of the problem remains the American Dream: even “progressives” see it as the solution -- including, I have the impression, the Wall Street protesters -- when it’s actually the problem.
...

There is a story, probably apocryphal, of a Native American scouting expedition that came across the starving members of the Donner Party in 1847, who were snowbound in the Sierra Nevadas and resorted to cannibalism in order to survive. The expedition, which had never seen white people before, observed the Donner Party from a distance, then returned to base camp to report what they had seen. The report consisted of four words: “They eat each other.” Frankly, if I could summarize the argument of Why America Failed in a single phrase, this would be it. Unless Occupy Wall Street (or some other sociopolitical movement) manages to turn things around in a fundamental way, “They ate each other” will be our epitaph.
...

Americans may be very vocal in claiming we’ll eventually recover, or that the US is still number-one, but I believe that on some level they know that this is whistling in the dark. They suspect their lives will get worse as time goes on, and that the lives of their children will be even worse than that. They feel the American Dream betrayed them, and this has left them bitter and resentful. The Wall Street protests are, as during the Depression, a demand for restoring the American Dream; for letting more people into it. The Tea Party seeks a solution in returning to original American principles of hustling, i.e. of a laissez-faire economy and society, in which the government plays an extremely small role. Thus they see Obama as a socialist, which is absurd; even FDR doesn’t fit that description. There are great differences between the two movements, of course, but both are grounded in a deep malaise, a fear that someone or something has absconded with America.
...

The dominant thinking on the left, I suppose, is some variety of a “false consciousness” argument, that the elite have pulled the wool over the eyes of the vast majority of the population, and once the latter realizes that they’ve been had, they’ll rebel, they’ll move the country in a populist or democratic socialist direction. The problem I have with this is the evident fact that most Americans want the American Dream, not a different way of life—a Mercedes-Benz, as Janis Joplin once put it. Endless material wealth based on individual striving is the American ideal, and the desire to change that paradigm is practically nonexistent. Even the poor buy into this, which is why John Steinbeck once remarked that they regard themselves as “temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” Hence I would argue that nations get the governments they deserve; that the wool is the eyes.

In addition, all of the data over the last 20 years show that Americans are not very bright, and not even the bright ones are very bright—it’s not merely a question of IQ. A Marist poll released on July 4, 2011 showed that 42 percent of American adults are unaware that the U.S. declared its independence in 1776, and this figure increases to 69 percent for the under-30 age group. Twenty-five percent of Americans don’t know from which country the United States seceded. A poll taken in the Oklahoma public school system turned up the fact that 77 percent of the students didn’t know who George Washington was, and the Texas Board of Education recently voted to include a unit on Estee Lauder in the history curriculum, when they don’t have one on the first president. Nearly 30 percent of the American population thinks the sun revolves around the earth or is unsure of which revolves around which. Etc. etc. How can such a population grasp a structural analysis of American history or politics? They simply aren’t capable of it.
...

... this is not a matter of intelligence as IQ, because in America even the bright are brainwashed—just check out the New York Times. It’s more of an “ontological” problem, if you will.

Let me give you a concrete example. A friend of mine who is a dean at one of the nation’s major medical schools was very taken by my discussion of Joyce Appleby’s work, in my book Dark Ages America. He went out and bought her essay, "Capitalism and a New Social Order," in which she describes how the definition of “virtue” underwent a complete reversal in the 1790s—from putting your private interests aside for the sake of the greater good, to achieving individual material success in an opportunistic environment.

As a dean, my friend interacts with faculty a lot, at department meetings, cocktail parties, or whatever. He took these opportunities to raise the topic of the rapid redefinition of virtue in colonial America, only to discover that within 30 seconds, the eyes of whomever he was talking to glazed over and they would change the subject. Tocqueville said it in 1831, and it is even more true today: Americans simply cannot tolerate, cannot even hear, fundamental critiques of America. IQ has very little to do with it. In an ontological sense, they simply cannot bear it. And if this is true for the “best and the brightest,” then what does this say for the rest of us?
...
Why the American Empire Was Destined to Collapse | World | AlterNet
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:25   #13
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Originally Posted by Paco View Post
...

~ Brought to you by ECON 101.
Externalities are common in virtually every area of economic activity. They are defined as third party (or spill-over) effects arising from the production and/or consumption of goods and services for which no appropriate compensation is paid.
...

For example: - a chemical factory emits wastage as a by-product into nearby rivers and into the atmosphere. This creates negative externalities which impose higher social costs on other firms and consumers. e.g. clean up costs and health costs.
...

Why do externalities lead to market failure?

If we assume that the producer is interested in maximising profits - then they will only take into account the private costs and private benefits arising from their supply of the product. We can see from the diagram below that the profit-maximising level of output is at Q1. However the socially efficient level of production would consider the external costs too. The social optimum output level is lower at Q2.
...
Tutor2u - what are externalities?

And note that the part about market failure is only concerned with the loss of overall "optimum output." Economics 101 as taught in American schools doesn't analyze who pays external costs, how those costs are paid, or why it is routine for companies to force others to pay them, and certainly doesn't delve into the crucially important matters of why and how companies get away with it. Externalities are described in as general terms as possible, and otherwise left as an exercise to the student. Given the reality of the unfree market, it's easy enough to see why.

Companies tend to maximize external costs. Economics doesn't really address the injustices of what is fundamentally large-scale, systematic coercion. Not only is there market failure in corporatocracy, but freedom itself - the lives, liberty and happiness of the people - breaks down.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:26   #14
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First off, using the term Capitalism to describe our current economic system is a little off. We are told this is Capitalism, but it's not, well not in it's purist form. We (our government, who is supposed to be a reflective voice of the American public, but is instead a collection of millionaires and billionaires backed by corporate sponsors) use a hi-bred system based on capitalism and cronyism. In a pure capitalistic system the man with the best idea at the lowest price should get the contract. Doesn't always work like that. Do I think that's wrong? No, not entirely. My question is why is our government allowed to run with these ideals yet they bust apart unions (the common mans cronyism)? We (capitalists) fought a few hot wars and a cold war to combat socialism. What is it about socialism that our government found to be a threat so great we had to fight it for 30+ years? I'm not a socialist, but China is. They seem to be doing alright. I just don't see how some people spend so much time and effort defending this broken system that sells your manufacturing jobs overseas and continually disregard our constitutions provisions separating church and state (they don't pay taxes but can sway legislation in their ideological favor) and I could go on and on... But hey, with the use of well placed propaganda you can get a whole country to follow the likes of Nazis.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:27   #15
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America...Love it, or leave it, Obamanauts!

The lib-prog "transformation" experiment will fail.

Please show me where Socialism has worked and the populous of the country has benefited from creating a so-called "equal playing field".

Capitalism and the free-market economy surely has its faults.

But, Socialism as a way of governing individuals has been shown to only usher-in a government elite class, while the oppressed masses go without (fill in the blank).

Want proof? Simply reference the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR).
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Old 03-11-2012, 18:35   #16
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
Economics doesn't really address the injustices of what is fundamentally large-scale, systematic coercion. Not only is there market failure in corporatocracy, but freedom itself - the lives, liberty and happiness of the people - breaks down.

Lots of subjective terminology here...

"doesn't really..."

"injustices..."

"fundamentally..."

"large-scale..."

"failure..."

"freedom..."

"liberty..."

"happiness..."

"breaks down..."

AGAIN...

Who fu(king decides how much is enough?!?

Obumbler and his minions?
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Old 03-11-2012, 18:40   #17
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Let's not convict the wrong suspect. Capitalism is not the villain, greed is.
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Old 03-11-2012, 23:01   #18
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Originally Posted by higgite View Post
Let's not convict the wrong suspect. Capitalism is not the villain, greed is.
Amen brother.
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Old 03-11-2012, 23:20   #19
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Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
Freedom can be messy as life itself is, not everyone is cutout for it, at least we still get to choose our own destiny and how we want to get there.

Indeed.

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Old 03-11-2012, 23:35   #20
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Documents obtained by the Center for Media and Democracy, recently unsealed as part of a major lawsuit against Syngenta, reveal how the global chemical company's PR team investigated the press and spent millions to spin news coverage and public perceptions in the face of growing concerns about potential health risks from the widely used weed-killer "atrazine." This clearinghouse is for information about the company's PR campaign to influence the media, potential jurors, potential plaintiffs, farmers, politicians, scientists, and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in the midst of reviews of the weed-killer's potential to act as an endocrine disruptor, over the past decade or so.

The U.S. Geological Survey is one resource for citizens to look at the levels of atrazine in water nearby and in other regions. ...
Portal:Atrazine Exposed - SourceWatch



What Are Endocrine Disruptors?| Endocrine Disruptor Screening Program | US EPA
The endocrine system regulates all biological processes in the body from conception through adulthood and into old age, including the development of the brain and nervous system, the growth and function of the reproductive system, as well as the metabolism and blood sugar levels. The female ovaries, male testes, and pituitary, thyroid, and adrenal glands are major constituents of the endocrine system.

Ain't corporatism grand?

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Old 03-12-2012, 08:51   #21
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Wow, that turned into a full on ForSoWrong circle jerk of wrongness.

What a waste of my time to even skim over it all. (Time for the ignore feature.)
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:55   #22
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Ahhhhhhh! That's so much better!
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Old 03-12-2012, 16:34   #23
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When test results released last year by the United States Department of Agriculture's Food Safety and Inspection Service showed extremely high levels of drugs and antibiotics in cattle from dairies across the nation, including in Idaho, the federal agency announced it would launch a series of tests to address a potential problem. The Idaho dairy industry decided to preclude the FDA action with some unofficial testing of its own. Yet records of the testing are inaccessible and records of their strategy meeting don't exist.

On Jan. 4, dairymen from across the Gem State met to address the issue at the Boise headquarters of the Idaho State Department of Agriculture. Officials at the ISDA told BW there are no minutes, no recordings and no notes of the proceedings.

Attendees decided that Idaho dairies would send milk samples for drug and antibiotic analysis to the ISDA Animal Health Lab. But the ISDA kept no record of the analysis, and the findings were sent to the Idaho Dairymen's Association, which has exclusive ownership of the findings.

"These were unofficial samples. We don't have to keep a record," said Brian Oakey, deputy director of the ISDA.

When asked if the ISDA would be interested in what the results might be, Oakey responded with a flat "No."
...

"There was a regulator in bed with the industry, saying, 'It's OK, we'll help cover your butt,'" said one dairy industry veteran, who asked to remain anonymous. "Honestly, I don't know if you'll find anyone inside the dairy industry who will talk to you on the record. They're all employed and they like their jobs."
...

The law is as clear as a cowbell. The presence of drug or antibiotic residues exceeding a safe or tolerable level, set by the FDA, is illegal. One of the highest priorities of the agency is to "ensure the safety of animal-derived foods for human consumption." As a result, the FDA is responsible for making certain that drugs used to treat or prevent diseases are not abused or misused in food-producing animals.

When you think of beef, a dairy cow doesn't readily spring to mind. But when illegal substances are found in meat, inspectors say it's a good bet that the root of the problem can be traced to a dairy. ...

... drugs are as common as cow patties in the nation's dairies. An average dairy cow lives six or seven years, is regularly pregnant and is constantly being milked. Antibiotics are administered to dairy cows for treatment of mastitis, a potentially fatal infection of the mammary gland. Treatment is possible with long-acting antibiotics, but milk from such cows is not marketable until drug residues have cleared the animal's system. Cows being treated for mastitis are supposed to be segregated from the milk-producing herd to alert dairy workers.
...

In 2010, the FSIS reported blatant violations in the U.S. food chain. A survey of dairy cows sent to slaughter for beef discovered illegal amounts of drug residue in the livers and kidneys of cows that otherwise would have been turned into hamburger or T-bones. In other words, hundreds of positive samples of drug residues were found in tissues of animals destined for the nation's meat supply.
...

Some of the violations were off the charts. In July 2010, the FSIS discovered residue of flunixin in a cow traced to the Double A Dairy in Jerome. FSIS said the cow had flunixin 2,000 percent more than the allowed level. In another violation, a dairy cow traced back to a beef auction at the Producers Livestock Marketing Association in Jerome had sulfamethazine in its liver at 27,000 percent higher than the legal level.
...
Got Milk? Got Drugs? Got Both?: State Responds After Idaho Dairy Cattle Test Positive in Food Safety Tests | High levels of antibiotics and other drugs found in cattle linked to dairies | Features | Boise Weekly
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Old 03-12-2012, 17:08   #24
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You don't eat meat, all that screed is is anti-meat propaganda.
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Old 03-12-2012, 17:20   #25
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Heck, if I'm remembering right, all those drugs are the same things that my doctor wants me to take. I can save a fortune by just eating more beef and ice cream!!! LOL
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