Shooting Sports Forum

Shooting Sports Forum (http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/index.php)
-   News and Political Forum (http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=153)
-   -   Minimum wage reform (http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=87343)

Kevin 02-08-2012 14:01

Minimum wage reform
 
We need a structured minimum wage based on how much money the company made. With a structured minimum wage, walmart would have a higher minimum wage then some mom and pop corner store.

A flat rate minimum wage creates an unfair playing field, with the large companies having the advantage.

Employees would be motivated to help make the company profitable, because their wages would be tired to how much money the company makes.

Regardless of company size, the minimum wage would be a certain percentage of the bottom line.

Companies like walmart that turn billions in profit would be forced to pay a liveable wage. If a company like walmart makes 20 billion in profit, they can afford to pay a higher wage then a mon-and-pop store that is barely turning a profit.

If Mcdonalds can turn a billion dollars in profit, there is no excuse for paying near poverty wages.

If walmart can turn a billion dollars in profit, there is no excuse for paying near poverty wages.

Corporate welfare

I am tired of my tax dollars being used to subside companies like walmart. Why is the US having financial problems? Because companies like mcdonalds, walmart, lowes, best buy,,, can get away with paying their employees poverty wages.

Fortune 500 employer - even though we make a few billion in quarterly profits, we are going to pay you $8 an hour. I understand you have 2 children at home? You should be able to sign up on welfare and food stamps to subsidize your income.

Employee - are you sure you can not pay more then $8 an hour?

Fortune 500 employer - we need to make sure the CEO gets his Christmas bonus at the end of the year, and he wants a new private jet.

Free market is supposed to determine wages

That is fine and dandy, expect the US is not a free market.

We have millions of illegal immigrants who will work for a lower wage then most US citizens.

We have free trade with china. Labor cost get to high, close the plant and move overseas.

When the factory closes, the people have to be retrained, which a lot of them go into the service sector because the manufacturing jobs are gone. More people in the service sector means wages are driven down even more.

If we did not have 8% - 10% unemployment rate, and we did not have free trade, then yea, maybe then the market would determine what wages to pay.

Since the 1980s I have seen shipyards close, numerous welding shops close, people that once held metal working jobs are being forced into other job markets.

Tailgunner 02-08-2012 14:56

ELIMINATE MINIMUM WAGE COMPLETELY, that's the reform that's needed.
Not some Socialistic "spread the wealth" cow cookie plan

Adjuster 02-08-2012 15:01

Flip side is free market capitalism.

Germany is dealing with it now, and has at the moment, the lowest unemployment rate in more than 20 years as a result.

Why?

Well, companies suddenly have to pay what a job is worth, not some minimum wage set by the government.

And supply and demand finally work when that's in play.

Why can McDonalds pay peanuts to work there? It's unskilled labor. Same goes for WalMart. But can they pay minimum wage for more skilled jobs, or even jobs at McDonalds and WalMart that take skills beyond "Would you like fries with that?"

Absolutely! And that demand for workers puts upward pressure on wages.

The biggest problem we had for decades in this nation is the idea that it's fine to have ilegals work jobs nobody wants to do.

That lie has driven the real wage of those jobs down, while we have used "minimum wage laws" to try and push it back up again.

Caught up in the middle, are millions of Americans who work skilled labor jobs, and comptete with illegals who will work for less. (Often because they have their homes/food/power bill/etc. paid for by the welfare system that they are cheating.)

So, the guy making 12.75 per hour and trying to support his family on that suffers compared to the illegal worker, who's not "married" in the USA, so his "wife and kids" are all paid for with welfare.

He makes the same wages, and only has to buy healthcare for him. His wife and kids are paid for by the state again.

And when you look at bills? What bills? They don't pay rent, groceries or even cable. And yes, the state will even pay for the CELL PHONE.

Insane, and yet we say if we punished companies that make a profit, and spread that around with the workers, it would solve the problem? Nope, it would just MOVE THE PROBLEM around some, but not solve it.

To solve it, you make it so painful, so costly, that NOBODY will hire an illegal period. No way, not going to happen.

Then make it PAINFUL to live on the dole. You want to have welfare? Sure, you can live in old army baracks, and eat in the mess hall. You have no personal space, no personal stuff, you don't starve however, and your healthcare is done at the base clinic too, not the local hosptial.

Want more? Get your butt off the dole.

Want higher pay? Get a better education, and then apply it where you work, or where you want to work.

Again, want to avoid poverty in this country?

1) Get the best education you can.
2) Do not have kids out of wedlock.
3) Stay off drugs.

Pretty simple rules, but those that ignore them, or drop out, get knocked up and get high?

Well, they work at WalMart or McDonalds, or have figured out that they GET MORE by just doing nothing, and living on the Welfare system.

woodstock 02-08-2012 15:32

Quote:

ELIMINATE MINIMUM WAGE COMPLETELY,
Exactly. Everyone has the right to turn down a job if they don't feel that it pays enough. Even those drawing unemployment (which should be changed as well). Why should the unskilled get any guaranteed salary? It isn't fair to the employer.

Kevin 02-08-2012 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tailgunner (Post 692540)
ELIMINATE MINIMUM WAGE COMPLETELY, that's the reform that's needed.
Not some Socialistic "spread the wealth" cow cookie plan

How much do you think companies like walmart would pay their employees with no minimum wage standard?

woodstock 02-08-2012 16:56

Quote:

How much do you think companies like walmart would pay their employees with no minimum wage standard?
I think they would pay a totally unskilled person exactly what the job is worth. That amounts to how ever much they could get someone to do it for. As the person learns, they move up the ladder and make more money. That is what the free market is all about. It is also incentive for kids to stay in school and go to college if possible.

Tailgunner 02-08-2012 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 692551)
How much do you think companies like walmart would pay their employees with no minimum wage standard?

How much do you think someone with no job skills, work experience, work ethic etc, is worth?

whofarted 02-08-2012 18:37

i for one believe strongly in abolishing the minimum wage and minimum age. I feel that the delicate hands of a 5 year old are perfect for factory work. Imagine how much more will get done with 500 5 year olds working for a dollar an hour as oppose to 60 adults working for 8 bucks an hour. They much easier to control as well. This will also solve our welfare and crime problems. If they arent on the streets doing drugs and having unprotected sex, they would get arrested or pregnant.

rhevans 02-08-2012 18:41

It's the job that has economic value, not the person.

Most people learn job skills that allows them to move up the economic ladder.

Marlin 45 carbine 02-08-2012 18:58

the governments 'poverty level' for a family of four is right at 26k$/year.
show me a family with decent vehicle, housing and furnishing, and grocerys plus keeping 2 kids in school. it should be raised immediately to 30k$ year. and government help made available to stable homes with working parent(s) under that amount. some sort of utilitys, vehicle/mileage expense and clothing allowances perhaps

woodstock 02-08-2012 19:07

Quote:

and government help made available to stable homes with working parent(s) under that amount. some sort of utilitys, vehicle/mileage expense and clothing allowances perhaps
That is the kind of thinking that got us into the trouble we are in now. Every American deserves to own a home etc.
If anything, people should learn to live within their means and stop expecting something for nothing.

rhevans 02-08-2012 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlin 45 carbine (Post 692573)
the governments 'poverty level' for a family of four is right at 26k$/year.
show me a family with decent vehicle, housing and furnishing, and grocerys plus keeping 2 kids in school. it should be raised immediately to 30k$ year. and government help made available to stable homes with working parent(s) under that amount. some sort of utilitys, vehicle/mileage expense and clothing allowances perhaps

You are covered. The earned income tax credit for your family making $26,000 is $4,200, raising the total t0 $30,200.

freesw 02-08-2012 19:53

Right on whofer.

The Seattle Times: Local News: State subsidy to Wal-Mart employees put at $12 million

The Herald-Sun - Wal Mart needs to get off of welfare

The new American dream, working two 39 hour jobs per week for next to nothing, Dad stocking the shelves, Mom at the cash register, and junior cleaning the restrooms. Five such jobs per family should be enough for bus fare, a one bedroom apartment and subsistence diet. Woo hoo!

Kevin 02-08-2012 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tailgunner (Post 692561)
How much do you think someone with no job skills, work experience, work ethic etc, is worth?

That is a tough question.

Do we over pay people or under pay people?

Do we allow companies that make billions of dollars exploit low wage employees?

China proves that companies will go with the lowest bidder on labor

Dirty Harry 02-08-2012 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by freesw (Post 692594)
Right on whofer.

The Seattle Times: Local News: State subsidy to Wal-Mart employees put at $12 million

The Herald-Sun - Wal Mart needs to get off of welfare

The new American dream, working two 39 hour jobs per week for next to nothing, Dad stocking the shelves, Mom at the cash register, and junior cleaning the restrooms. Five such jobs per family should be enough for bus fare, a one bedroom apartment and subsistence diet. Woo hoo!

You don't even have a job so what are you sniveling about?

Dirty Harry 02-08-2012 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhevans (Post 692569)
It's the job that has economic value, not the person.

Most people learn job skills that allows them to move up the economic ladder.

Bingo, in America you have the opportunity to do whatever you want. I worked nothing but min jobs while going to school, the reason I went to school was so I wouldn't have to work for min wage all my life. ;)

It's not rocket science people. :)

freesw 02-08-2012 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry (Post 692598)
You don't even have a job so what are you sniveling about?

Not a thing, Imposter. As a winner of the genetic lottery I have nothing at all to complain about.

Nor do you. Once of the many differences between us is, I appreciate what I have. You, on the other hand, go through life embittered that you don't have more of what little those less fortunate than you have.

Another difference is, of course, that you are a liar.

rhevans 02-08-2012 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 692596)
That is a tough question.

Do we over pay people or under pay people?

Do we allow companies that make billions of dollars exploit low wage employees?

China proves that companies will go with the lowest bidder on labor

Question on a personal level. Do you shop around before making a purchase or just buy from the first store. Would you pay the highest or lowest price?

woodstock 02-08-2012 20:12

Quote:

Do we allow companies that make billions of dollars exploit low wage employees?
How are they being exploited? They can always go elsewhere if the pay doesn't suit them. We have plenty of labor laws to protect the worker from being abused, overworked etc. While we are at it, let's outlaw labor unions as well. They no longer serve any useful purpose in this country, unless of course you are a politician looking for a contribution.

Quote:

I worked nothing but min jobs while going to school, the reason I went to school was so I wouldn't have to work for min wage all my life.
I believe that is what is known as the American Dream.

freesw 02-08-2012 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry (Post 692600)
I worked nothing but min jobs while going to school

And paid for tuition?

Dirty Harry 02-08-2012 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by freesw (Post 692608)
And paid for tuition?

Uhhh,,,,,,,,,,,,,yea. Duh duh ha ha hee ho! :lol: :wacko:


The thing about writing that check and handing all that money over to the school is that it made me value that education that much more.

rhevans 02-08-2012 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by freesw (Post 692608)
And paid for tuition?

In the 60's, tuition, room and board at my state university was $2,500 per school year.

Colleges and universities have the highest inflation rate of any institution.

freesw 02-08-2012 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry (Post 692610)
Uhhh,,,,,,,,,,,,,yea. Duh duh ha ha hee ho! :lol: :wacko:


The thing about writing that check and handing all that money over to the school is that it made me value that education that much more.

As rhevans noted, tuition's gone way up, relative to inflation overall, whereas the minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation.

You're not quite the Horatio Alger you imagine yourself to be, if a word of what you claim is even true.

woodstock 02-08-2012 20:43

Quote:

As rhevans noted, tuition's gone way up, relative to inflation overall, whereas the minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation.
I live in Athens, home of the University of Georgia, and worked their until 5 years ago. Trust me, there are still plenty of students who manage to work their way thru school. I hire some of them once in a while when I need help with something. All it takes is the will to better yourself instead of asking for a handout from Uncle Sugar.

freesw 02-08-2012 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodstock (Post 692616)
Trust me, there are still plenty of students who manage to work their way thru school.

Tell me they aren't getting Pell Grants and student loans, if not other forms of financial aid.

Unless Imposter is nearly old enough to be retired, I do not for one second believe he received no aid from family and/or government to get through school.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:37.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All information is copyright by Perfectunion.com unless already under copyright.