Do We Still Need Unions? No. - Shooting Sports Forum


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Old 03-15-2011, 17:23   #1
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Do We Still Need Unions? No.

Wow, Newsweek, generally a leftist rag weighing in on unions and believe it or not they say, NO, we don't need no stinking unions!!!!

Mark McKinnon: Do We Still Need Unions? No. - Newsweek

Yippie skippee, maybe I'll buy a subscription . . . I don't zink so.
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Old 03-15-2011, 20:08   #2
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Originally Posted by Dead Man Walking View Post
Yippie skippee, maybe I'll buy a subscription . . . I don't zink so.
Faster the unions die, the faster the American worker will find their jobs again....
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Old 03-16-2011, 00:13   #3
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Originally Posted by CZDiesel View Post
Faster the unions die, the faster the American worker will find their jobs again....
And at bargain wages!
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Old 03-16-2011, 00:20   #4
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Originally Posted by gossman View Post
And at bargain wages!
Not true goss.... A lot of the inflation we have is artificial through increased wages. If the auto companies for example didn't have the controllable expense of $120 an hour employees they could produce a product for less. The problem is with unions a controllable expense such as wages becomes uncontrollable and artificially drives the cost of the goods...
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Old 03-16-2011, 00:28   #5
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Do we still need corporate personhood? No.


Corporate personhood is a corrupt legal fiction.

...
Under the Constitution, corporations had no rights. They had only the privileges granted them by the people of their chartering states, because there are only two parties to the Constitution, the people, who are sovereign and have constitutional rights, and the government, which is accountable to the people, and has duties it must perform to their satisfaction.

The word “corporation” appears nowhere in the Constitution. Corporations are a creation of government, and government must perform to the satisfaction of the people. This meant that property - corporations - would have to discontinue being a creation of government – which serves the people - and, in effect, become people, entitled to the rights of the sovereign under the Constitution, if wealthy corporate shareholders were to continue minority rule.

Within 100 years of the ratification of the Constitution, corporate shareholders had animated a lifeless business arrangement into the legal equivalent of a living human being by using the Supreme Court as a scalpel to excise the protections and immunities of the Fourteenth Amendment from human beings and transplant them into their property - corporations. That operation allowed shareholder property to begin assuming control of the United States government by exercising the constitutional rights of United States citizens, and further, to assume the protections and immunities of the entire Bill of Rights under the mantle of "corporate personhood."

The doctrine of "corporate personhood" is based on a legally meaningless "obiter dictum," or offhand remark, made by Chief Justice Morrison Remick Waite before the decision was read in Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad (1886). It was not the decision. It was not part of the decision. But it subsequently found its way into the court reporter's summary, of the case.
...
Cold Case Democracy and the Doctrine of "Corporate Personhood"
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Old 03-16-2011, 00:34   #6
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
Do we still need corporate personhood? No.


Corporate personhood is a corrupt legal fiction.

Cold Case Democracy and the Doctrine of "Corporate Personhood"
Boy your really reaching when you post a link to a globalization web site
You don't get it free, that's what were fighting against! We don't want to be globalized.... We are proud to be Americans and want to stay that way!
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Old 03-16-2011, 00:38   #7
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You're also apparently fighting for the right to ignore facts.

Research and reporting about issues of globalization does not equal advocacy for globalization.

Answer me this, CZD: Do you always carelessly jump to conclusions, or just when it suits your agenda?

Either way, it's no wonder you avoid the substance of my post, because the issue of corporate personhood goes straight to the heart of right wing hypocrisy about their alleged fidelity to original intent.
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Old 03-16-2011, 00:52   #8
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
You're also apparently fighting for the right to ignore facts.

Research and reporting about issues of globalization does not equal advocacy for globalization.

Answer me this, CZD: Do you always carelessly jump to conclusions, or just when it suits your agenda?

Either way, it's no wonder you avoid the substance of my post, because the issue of corporate personhood goes straight to the heart of right wing hypocrisy about their alleged fidelity to original intent.
I just don't agree with the content or conclusion of your post or link... The Constitution does take up the issue of commerce. As stated above the constitution gives rights to the states and this is where corporations are formed. Its a states rights issue and you as a globalist want to twist and warp this into a federal issue....

The problem is you have a lack of substance in your posts.... Just because you have a lot of quotes off of google and links to progressives sites doesn't mean there is any substance there!
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Old 03-16-2011, 00:58   #9
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Imagine what you will.

That article is merely a decent summary of facts that can be found a thousand other places, if only you cared to know.

Your insistence on ignorance of history and US constitutional and other law regarding corporations exceeds my persistence.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:02   #10
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
Imagine what you will.

Your insistence on ignorance of history and US constitutional law regarding corporations exceeds my persistence.
That's a typical response from you! You ask why I don't reply to the substance of your post and when I do and point out why the Constitution doesn't say Corp you go to name calling!
You can say what you will but the FACT is that corporations are chartered by a state....
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:05   #11
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Wages for the middle class worker have been losing ground since the 70's while CEO's wages have continued to rise. I do not see how by driving wages even lower will improve the economy or the ability of the middle-class to survive.

Warren Buffett's Corporate Governance and Succession Plan

Good livable wages allow for a better and broader tax base. It also allows for more Americans to purchase more goods and services therefore increasing the job market and productivity.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:10   #12
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Originally Posted by CZDiesel View Post
You can say what you will but the FACT is that corporations are chartered by a state....
Which has nothing to do with the FACT that corporations corrupted members of the judiciary so that they would obtain constitutional rights that by natural law and by the original intent of the Constitution are reserved to people only! The article describes how that occurred over time.

Yet you refuse to see the evidence right in front of you!
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:10   #13
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Originally Posted by gossman View Post
Wages for the middle class worker have been losing ground since the 70's while CEO's wages have continued to rise. I do not see how by driving wages even lower will improve the economy or the ability of the middle-class to survive.

Warren Buffett's Corporate Governance and Succession Plan
This I agree with... CEO wages are as controllable as is the common mans. If a company abuses this and drives themselves into the ground because of CEO salaries and golden parachutes then shame on them and they deserve to go away. In these cases of mismanagement I truly feel for the displaced worker...
But there are many many companies that do not have unions but still give their workers good pay and their executives real salaries
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:12   #14
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
Which has nothing to do with the FACT that corporations corrupted members of the judiciary so that they would obtain constitutional rights that rightly and by the original intent of the Constitution are reserved to the people only! The article describes how that occurred over time.

Yet you refuse to see the evidence right in front of you!
Again, That is a conclusion that you, a obvious anti-capitalist has come to. This is NOT the same conclusion I have come to
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:15   #15
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You claim I'm an "obvious anti-capitalist." I say you are anti-capitalist. You are a corporatist, not a capitalist. Corporatism is a corrupt perversion of capitalism that stifles rather than fosters life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

"Widespread poverty and concentrated wealth cannot long endure side by side in a democracy." -- Thomas Jefferson

“I hope we shall crush… in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:20   #16
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
You claim I'm an "obvious anti-capitalist." I would say you are. You are a corporatist, not a true capitalist.
Again you are really grasping there I do enjoy this debate though.... I also want to say that you are missing a component of the Constitution... You claim that the original intent of the Constitution is reserved ONLY for the people.... That's not true and is missing a component. The STATES! The Constitution also was formed to protect the rights of the states and their ability to freely govern themselves....
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:28   #17
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Again, that has NOTHING to do with the issue of corporate personhood.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:35   #18
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Your twisting here! You bring up a constitutional opinion and I answer it. Then you bring up a corruption opinion and I answer it. Then you circle back to your globalist site
The truth here is at best these are you opinions but they are not based in fact! Fact in point the Constitution gives the states rights to regulate commerce and your corruption charge baseless...
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:41   #19
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Originally Posted by CZDiesel View Post
That's a typical response from you!
I'll remind you that you first made a totally ill-informed (and irrelevant) comment about the website on which the article was posted, continued to call me a "globalist" after I'd corrected your error, and claimed my posts "lack substance."

And you still evidently insist on missing the point. Which is your prerogative of course.


Originally Posted by CZDiesel View Post
Your twisting here!
Oh, I don't think so!
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:46   #20
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
I'll remind you that you first made a totally ill-informed (and irrelevant) comment about the website on which the article was posted, continued to call me a "globalist" after I'd corrected your error, and claimed my posts "lack substance."

And you still evidently insist on missing the point. Which is your prerogative of course.




Oh, I don't think so!
Are you saying your NOT a globalist? You are a progressive are you not?
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Old 03-16-2011, 07:49   #21
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Originally Posted by gossman View Post
Wages for the middle class worker have been losing ground since the 70's while CEO's wages have continued to rise. I do not see how by driving wages even lower will improve the economy or the ability of the middle-class to survive.

Warren Buffett's Corporate Governance and Succession Plan

Good livable wages allow for a better and broader tax base. It also allows for more Americans to purchase more goods and services therefore increasing the job market and productivity.
Gross, that right there pegged you as a liberal.
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:14   #22
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Free, did you know the United States is a Corporation?

United States is a corporation
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:04   #23
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Originally Posted by CZDiesel View Post
Are you saying your NOT a globalist?
That is correct.

Originally Posted by CZDiesel View Post
You are a progressive are you not?
Not in the way you think.

Originally Posted by Mini-14 View Post
Free, did you know the United States is a Corporation?

United States is a corporation

B. S.


Here's your "source"
Elden Photo Site

You guys are nothing if not tenacious, but you're still wrong.

(But if you posted that bizarre "US is a corporation" page just for the lol's, it worked. )
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:58   #24
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Not only do we not need public unions, we need to cut the number of public employees in half.
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Old 03-16-2011, 16:55   #25
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Originally Posted by Dead Man Walking View Post
Gross, that right there pegged you as a liberal.
Fair enough, though I think that your standards are pretty slim. Since liberals often refer to me as a right wing nazi and the far right like to refer to me as a liberal, I must be right on the royal road.

Originally Posted by CZDiesel View Post
This I agree with... CEO wages are as controllable as is the common mans. If a company abuses this and drives themselves into the ground because of CEO salaries and golden parachutes then shame on them and they deserve to go away. In these cases of mismanagement I truly feel for the displaced worker...
But there are many many companies that do not have unions but still give their workers good pay and their executives real salaries
Bad companies deserve unions. My argument is not that all companies should be unionized but unions do help keep all the wages higher than they would be if unions didn't exist. Of course since they do exist that is my theory, we will see when they are driven out where wages will go. You probably know my guess.
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