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Old 02-17-2011, 12:50   #1
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Where are the jobs

Time magazine has an article asking where the jobs are, and for some reason the talk is aimed the the GOP?

'Where Are the Jobs?' Talk Aimed at GOP - TIME

The jobs are in China, thanks to free trade passed by both parties.
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Old 02-17-2011, 14:29   #2
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No surprise TIME did this. Where are the jobs? Ask Obama! Ask Pelosi! Hairy Reed!

If we don't give incentive for businesses to make and produce goods in America, we're not going to HAVE jobs. If we have a strong industrial base, we have a strong work force. Combine that with lower taxes on big business and ESPECIALLY small business (which freaking employs a LARGEEE portion of our workforce) and you've got what's known as a trickle-down effect. It's worked before, and it will work again.

These basic fundamental ideas were put into place not ONLY by the great Ronald Regan but also a lesser known POTUS named Harding. We almost went into the great depression in 1920. That's when the great, underappreciated Harding spung into action. He lowered taxes, got our industrial base fired up, and got everyone off their asses. What happened next? Ever hear of the "roaring twenties?"

P.S. you might think I'm crazy for saying lower taxes for BIG business. I don't mean TOO low. Look at GE. Obama's multinational buddy! They get taxed what .. THREE percent? Well, Wal-Mart gets taxed over SIXTY FIVE percent!!!! While they don't buy many AMERICAN goods, they DO give back to the community HERE versus making Korea and China rich off overpriced incandescent LIGHT BULBS! =)
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Old 02-17-2011, 14:47   #3
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Originally Posted by Jsh1284 View Post
No surprise TIME did this. Where are the jobs? Ask Obama! Ask Pelosi! Hairy Reed!
It really started back in the 1990s when king bush I and bill clinton started nafta and GATT (general agreement on tariffs and trade.)
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Old 02-17-2011, 14:48   #4
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Oh, I do agree with that! However, if you're asking the GOP where the jobs are at RIGHT NOW, you have to look in the opposite direction .. because Obama and company have been doing the textbook opposite of how past leaders have gotten us out of recessions.

The good news? Folks like Michelle Bachmann and company are holding everyones' feet to the fire. I think they're going to come in and just chizzle at Obama's budget, his healthcare, block his spending frenzies, and expose RINO republicans and far left democrats alike so that we can get some balanced leadership who actually respect history and the constitution (on both sides) in 2012 and 2016.

I consider myself a Tea Party type conservative fiscally and a borderline libertarian in other areas. I am ticked off about the Patriot Act's passing. The good news is a LOT of the TP guys and gals DID vote against it. There are a few who did NOT, though .. and I think that's going to cost them.
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Old 02-17-2011, 14:50   #5
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Originally Posted by Jsh1284 View Post
because Obama and company have been doing the textbook opposite of how past leaders have gotten us out of recessions.
Regardless of what party is in office, china still keeps its most favored trade nation status
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Old 02-17-2011, 14:55   #6
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That's because true conservatism has been DEAD for quite a while now. It's coming back with a vengeance with the TP and other groups, though. One of the biggest grassroots movements of modern times FTW!
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Old 02-17-2011, 14:57   #7
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Harding was the most corrupt president that the USA has ever had, this according to legitimate historians. And what happened to the country after his "Roaring Twenties"? Plunged into a morass of poverty and war. Sound familiar? Ronald Regan did the working man no favors. His administration was the administration that finished nailing the lid on the coffin of the working class, it was then that the middle class worker's wages were disconnected from productivity. This allowed the corporations to remove any real worker benefits for an system in which allows them to enrich themselves (the 401k program) with employee money then bankrupting the very system later to keep the profits and leave the working man high and dry. Our wages have remained stagnant over the last 30+ years while the CEO incomes have risen to obscene rations, now over 300:1 and rising quickly. Where are the jobs? In the pockets of big business. Instead of a country where we are a community, where we care for all, we have become a nation of selfish self-centered people, where the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" may sound nice but was not the reason America was prosperous. It became prosperous through men like Ford, who realized the value of efficient hard working men, by paying real wages to employees who then could place that money into the economy by buying the very products they produced. The mentality of that time boohoo'd this idea, but Ford made it work. Really interested into putting America back to work? Raise wages of the middle class and put a bridle on the runaway wages and benefits of the CEO's and their ilk. Instead we will cry socialism and continue our downward spiral into implosion.
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Old 02-17-2011, 15:11   #8
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That's not going to work. About Ford .. the reason he was prosperous was because he was innovative. HE created the assembly line .. the first production car .. etc etc .. and he benefited. His workers did too, because he was selling a new idea and it was popular. He paid them well because he could .. and because they worked HARD. We need more AMERiCAN innovations. How do we do this? Give incentive to companies to make things HERE again.

Harding was corrupt according to most LIBERAL historians. Wanna know the most corrupt president ever? Woodrow Wilson? He created the FED and generally set us up for far left tyrants today.

Harding brought us out of a MAJOR recession by doing exactly what we should do today. The reason for the WAR? Well, let's see .. who was in power and creating horribly corrupt policy during that time? FDR? Yeah, that's him. His "RAW deal" was the most disrupting and devastating piece of legislation in American history. The war DID bring us out of the depression, but that's because everyone was working again. They were all getting paid and nobody was lazy or on welfare. You work or you don't EAT! That's how it SHOULD be!

FDR SHOULD have stepped into the war BEFORE he did. Why didn't he? It would have ended up costing him the 1940 election. If he had went to war before that, he'd have lost, and his corrupt policies would have never came to fruition. He was simply looking out for his own interests. If we had done that, Germany might not have ever commuted the atrocities it did.

As far as Regan goes, he brought us out of another TEERRIBLE recession caused by Jimmy Carter. I admit, I didn't like EVERYTHING Regan did. Every president has his dark days. However, if he had not come along when he did, we might have become the "Peoples republic of America" by 1990. Not to mention we might have collapsed due to a major depression. And again .. the Harding tactics worked.

If I'm wrong. If Harding is WRONG, if REGAN is WRONG, if ALL of the past leaders who have cut budgets, lowered taxes, etc are WRONG .. why has it worked nearly every time?
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Old 02-17-2011, 15:24   #9
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You're wrong and they were wrong. The recession that was inherited by Cater was being fought by Nixon, who slowed it down during his administration by a series of freezes set by law. Big Business has no incentive to decrease it's take while raising the income of the middle class. Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush 2 allowed the CEO's to strip America clean, to fill their coffers with short term profits at the expense of the middle class. The call the Harding administration a good example is revisionist history. To ignore the past by claiming it's based on liberal historians is straight from the disinformation guru himself, Heir Beck. His would be the last voice I would depend on. Big Business is pocketing the jobs of the middle-class.
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Old 02-17-2011, 15:26   #10
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So what shall we do? Raise taxes on big/small businesses and then expect them to pay the MIGHTY hand of the workers .. and the ACLU & Company MORE money?
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Old 02-17-2011, 15:34   #11
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FDR and his programs brought on the golden age of the middle-class. They were making good wages, purchasing products, building families, and with that building America. The "no work no eat" mentality is a false god, blaming the plight of America on the disenfranchised and unemployed makes good television, but is a red herring brought on by those who wish to maintain the power and the wealth of the country.
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Old 02-17-2011, 15:40   #12
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Originally Posted by Jsh1284 View Post
So what shall we do? Raise taxes on big/small businesses and then expect them to pay the MIGHTY hand of the workers .. and the ACLU & Company MORE money?
ACLU=red herring and not the problem. The answer is that taxes need to be paid to maintain a quality infrastructure. The tax system needs to overhauled to where all pay the bill. Incentives and tax breaks should be given only to companies that offer realistic livable wages ( $12 an hour is NOT realistic nor livable in most areas of the country) and benefits. Simply by reigning in the greed of corporate America and paying those wages to the middle-class will result in more jobs and through more jobs more taxes can be raised reducing the tax burden on the middle class. First step, increase the minimum wage for adult workers to a realistic wage.
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Old 02-17-2011, 15:51   #13
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I don't even have time to go into all the things that are wrong with the FDR statements, so I'll come back to that later.

Yeah, taxes need to be paid! First step? Stop abuse of the welfare system and cut its budget! Make people who are living off the government who are able to work .. WORK! That's a good bit of cash right there! I agree about raising minimum wage, too. That's a great idea!

Raising taxes on businesses is not the answer. Oh, and we can't pay off our deficit or run the government on Taxes alone. They are the employers and they are the ones who pay our meal ticket. Sure, we should get CEO and corporate wages under control! That's a definite step in the right direction! No real conservative will disagree with you on that, either! The problem is though .. is that your solution is flawed. Higher wages alone don't fix the problem. If you DON'T HAVE A JOB .. how are you gonna get a raise? Unless you are on SSI ...

We have to CREATE jobs. The way we do that is start bringing business back to America. We HAVE to do this. Industry .. blue collar work .. is the reason the MIDDLE CLASS flourished for so long! Now we're struggling because factories and businesses are CLOSING their doors and moving to MEXICO and CHINA and JAPAN and KOREA ... and so on! If we can bring them BACK, problem solved. Combine that with LESS government SPENDING (we're fixing to start paying a virtual MORGAGE to China if we don't do this) so we don't drown in debt .. and then get the extremists who obviously despise America ... OUT of Washington (both sides) and out of our state governments as well.

Fixed.

The solution is the constitution. Small government, low taxes, free market, and individual liberty. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 02-17-2011, 16:34   #14
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Again, sorry to DP but I wanted to say this:

Don't take it personal, Grossman. I hope you aren't offended by my comments. I guess we simply have a vastly different POV .. and I understand where you're coming from. I just don't think that kind of policy will work. Thank goodness, though .. that we still have the right to disagree! =)
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Old 02-17-2011, 17:08   #15
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Not offended by the least. I disagree with placing the blame on SSI, it may be a problem but it is not THE problem. If the tax burden was placed equally on all the shoulders, CEO wages reigned in, with that more jobs would be created, more production would mean more products for the middle class to purchase, and the tax would increase by even more allowing for moneys to be spent on infrastructure. Once jobs are created, it would then reduce the dependants on SSI and welfare. We cannot fix the SSI and Welfare problems until there are realistic livable waged jobs available.
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Old 02-17-2011, 17:30   #16
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Reagan did the working man no favors? I gotta disagree with that. Reagan loosened the grip of high corporate tax rates on businesses, and the flood gates opened wide for the US economy to turn on the after burners. It's not a big trick. It works every time. When the Feds lower the tax rates on businesses, they flourish, hire workers, and tax revenues actually increase as the economy cranks up. Carter didn't get it, Clinton woke up after the '94 elections and made some smart choices, but now we have a guy who just flat doesn't understand how the private sector works. Sadly, he has also surrounded himself with staff members who think government is the answer to everything. Government cannot be the job creator in a free market economy. The Feds need to step aside and let the engine run.
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Old 02-17-2011, 18:30   #17
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Originally Posted by KMO View Post
Reagan did the working man no favors?
Regan stabbed the working man in the back by moving our oil production overseas. Tens of thousands of people who built drilling rigs were put out of work.
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Old 02-17-2011, 18:44   #18
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Who's stabbing us in the back right now by not allowing us to drill offshore and in Alaska? That's what really matters as far as oil production. Regan is gone. Obomba is now.
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Old 02-17-2011, 18:46   #19
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There are still some jobs here, one of the local chicken processing plants just imported 200 workers from overseas because they couldn't find enough help. I realize that these are not high paying jobs,but some people would rather collect welfare than work.
we need to bring the factories back to this country, and get the government out of businesses.
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Old 02-17-2011, 18:54   #20
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There are still some jobs here, one of the local chicken processing plants just imported 200 workers from overseas because they couldn't find enough help. I realize that these are not high paying jobs,but some people would rather collect welfare than work.
we need to bring the factories back to this country, and get the government out of businesses.
EXACTLY! That's what it boils down to in the end! Free markets CAN and WILL thrive when the govt leaves them alone. Once we start dabbling in enterprise, that's where we run into trouble. Big government is just not constitutional. A foundation for a house will not hold a skyscraper. That's where we're at right now, and it's going to collapse eventually unless we dramatically bring down the size of our system.

Big government is a friend to no one. Small government is a friend of the PEOPLE!
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Old 02-17-2011, 19:20   #21
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Originally Posted by Jsh1284 View Post
Who's stabbing us in the back right now by not allowing us to drill offshore and in Alaska? That's what really matters as far as oil production. Regan is gone. Obomba is now.
Reagan, Bush, GW Bush, all did it. Production and efficiency went up, CEO and big business wages went up, and the middle-income wage earner went down. Drilling will not provide America w/ jobs and is a very short term band-aid. Again, more jobs at livable wages will get more people to work. The pig in a poke that was sold to Americans by these conservatives borders on criminal for the average guy. I am not leaving out the liberal politicians either since they are only another side of the same coin. I say it's time for a new coin.
Originally Posted by Rifleman55 View Post
There are still some jobs here, one of the local chicken processing plants just imported 200 workers from overseas because they couldn't find enough help. I realize that these are not high paying jobs,but some people would rather collect welfare than work.
we need to bring the factories back to this country, and get the government out of businesses.
I took a buyout 3 years ago and decided to take an early retirement when I saw what was available on the job market. I was told that a person can live on $10 an hour. Hmmm, let's pencil it out. $10 = $1733.33 an hour. After taxes = $1299. Housing $800, leaves $499. Utilities=$200 (very optimistic) leaves $200.33 Now you have food, transportation, insurance,and living expenses, wow, what do you leave out? And these jobs are being given to college graduates at this time. Until wages are brought back up to 1960's levels, we will always be behind. Yes, it's wrong to bring labor from outside the US to do work. Perhaps if they increased the wages and benefits to a viable amount they could have more than enough workers. I can tell you for sure, America does not need $5 buckets of KFC dark meat bad enough that they have to import slaves again. What was the average wage of those 200 jobs, $8 an hour or less?
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Old 02-17-2011, 19:26   #22
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Oh, so Clinton .. doing all the damage he did .. and Obama .. by single handedly tearing the constitution in half .. have done NOTHING to damage the US economy? I won't even go into the HUGE laundry list of damage that BOTH of those guys did, but let's just say it isn't pretty.

Wanna know a fun fact? From the time George Washington went into office and George W Bush LEFT office, we borrowed $10 Trillion Dollars. Since Obomba went INTO office, we've borrowed $5 Trillion Dollars. How is that not UTTERLY disastrous to the US Economy?

You talk of paying a morgage. Well, think of it this way .. once China and the Saudis want their money back, we'll basically be paying a morgage on our very economical EXISTENCE! We'll have to pay a HUGE portion of our GROSS income for the next DECADE to pay off those nations. Do you have any idea what that will do to us?
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Old 02-17-2011, 19:32   #23
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Gallup Finds U.S. Unemployment Up to 10.0% in Mid-February
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Old 02-17-2011, 19:40   #24
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The crap began with the Republicans decades ago. The hole is dug deep for sure and no one party is exempt of blame. And we have lost plenty of rights under the so-called Right. Our refusal to recognize this will only dig the hole more. We complain on how much money Obama spent on attempting to improve the economy, but it seems we ignore the greater cost of the ignorant war we are engaged in. Just how many billions does that cost us a month? That could pay a hellava healthcare bill. Or fix the roads and bridges, that alone would provide Americans with great paying jobs and benefits for quite a while. I'm no dove, but the money we spend bombing Afghanistan to move rocks around is quite silly, let alone of our attempt of nation building in Iraq. Not trying to be rude, but I think I have said all that I can in this matter. No doubt we are at an impasse here.
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Old 02-18-2011, 00:24   #25
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I don't think it began with the republicans at all. The big government crap, the welfare state, the FED, internment camps, and the whole shebang came from Mr Woodrow Wilson. If you aren't familiar completely with the dozens and dozens of horrible things he did for this country .. please .. look him up. Use an unbiased source. That man not only put Americans in prison (So did FDR) but he also laid the groundwork for today's far leftists, for the ponzi schemers on Wall Street, and was generally the first of the modern corrupt executive leaders.

I was no fan of GW Bush. He did a lot of wrong. The patriot act, namely. However, he did initiate the longest growth spurt (jobs-wise) in the last 30 years. We had continuous positive job growth for .. what was it .. six years? That isn't very common. It started right after his tax cuts, too.

Reagan might not have gotten everything right, but he was in there when the Berlin Wall fell, he told the Iranians to let our people go (and it happened. Immedaitely) .. not to mention his amazing job of ending the worst recession to date since the Great Depression. These are just simple facts. He was no corrupt politician. He was the right man for the job at the time. If he were young and alive today, I am sure he would beat Obama in 2012 in a similar fashion to how he beat Carter and (that other guy that nobody cares about) in 1984.

I just hope someone like Michelle Bachmann, Marco Rubio, or Alan West get nominated for the presidency. If West makes it .. namely .. he will win. Not to mention the fact that he will be America's first African-American president.
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