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Old 01-11-2015, 20:30   #101
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Originally Posted by reverendg View Post
The problem has not existed for 2000 years! Islam dates back less than 1400 years.
The Crusades were defensive.
The muslim by dint of his religion is called to jihad, we are called to answer them, not by our religion, but by the desire to survive as free people.
Huge difference.
How far back did Mosses start the put them all to the sword tactics?
In what Area where the Battles of the Crusades fought?
Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Crusades began with the Roman Catholic Churches desires of Power and Money (Greed), the Defense of the Holy Land angle was just a Guise employed in an attempt to justify the annexation of the Holy Lands. When it became to costly in 1200's the entire plan was scrapped.
Once again the call to jihad is a direct result of the tactics initiated By Mosses.

Our desire to survive as free people sure has started may War's with other free people.
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Old 01-11-2015, 22:17   #102
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Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet View Post
How far back did Mosses start the put them all to the sword tactics?
In what Area where the Battles of the Crusades fought?
Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Crusades began with the Roman Catholic Churches desires of Power and Money (Greed), the Defense of the Holy Land angle was just a Guise employed in an attempt to justify the annexation of the Holy Lands. When it became to costly in 1200's the entire plan was scrapped.
Once again the call to jihad is a direct result of the tactics initiated By Mosses.

Our desire to survive as free people sure has started may War's with other free people.
Not even close. The Mosaic command such as regarded the Midianites is quite different from the islamic command. It was about a singular event, not an open-ended command to be in force for millenia.

Your conspiracy theories about the crusades are laughable. It is plainly evident that islam was conquering Christian lands and converting by the sword. With all those facts out there, including pleas for help from the Orthodox prelate in Byzantium, no conspiracy needed concocting to justify action against the saracens.
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Old 01-12-2015, 06:26   #103
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Originally Posted by reverendg View Post
....It is plainly evident that islam was conquering Christian lands and converting by the sword....
Yep, the Crusades were indeed a counter-attack. Right now I'm wishing that Western Civilization still had the cojones to launch a fresh Crusade against the growing islamic threat to civilization, but that isn't going to happen. Its far more likely that o-loser and his cronies will step up their attacks on middle class white Americans, claiming that they're a "domestic terror threat" or some such drivel. Brainwashed types who get their "news" from NPR and listen to every pronouncement from the SPLC eat that kind of stuff up. That lot deserves to live under Sharia law, but the rest of us sure as hell don't.

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Old 01-12-2015, 06:54   #104
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God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all and always well-informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had thirteen States independent for eleven years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each State. What country before ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon, and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. Thomas Jefferson
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Old 01-12-2015, 12:41   #105
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Wow, A/J/S/USNRet's is by far the most sane post on this page.

The Crusades were launched to rid Europe of its surplus of useless knights and brigands.
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Old 01-12-2015, 13:33   #106
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
Wow, A/J/S/USNRet's is by far the most sane post on this page.

The Crusades were launched to rid Europe of its surplus of useless knights and brigands.
What about the Children's Crusade ?
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Old 01-12-2015, 13:39   #107
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Originally Posted by reverendg View Post
Your conspiracy theories about the crusades are laughable. It is plainly evident that islam was conquering Christian lands and converting by the sword. With all those facts out there, including pleas for help from the Orthodox prelate in Byzantium, no conspiracy needed concocting to justify action against the saracens.
Try some Testimonials or Educational References when you toss out your Self Serving Flatulate, Please return to your chant prior to preforming your self-flagellation to receive purity prior to posting more Papal Fabrications.
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Old 01-12-2015, 13:45   #108
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Originally Posted by Gator Monroe View Post
What about the Children's Crusade ?
Which one? The one to save the children, or the one where muslims round them up to sell them off as slaves and brides?
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Old 01-12-2015, 13:53   #109
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Originally Posted by Parnelli View Post
Which one? The one to save the children, or the one where muslims round them up to sell them off as slaves and brides?
If they are females they are expendable so you strap an explosive device to them and send them into a crowd before detonation.
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Old 01-12-2015, 14:04   #110
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All rightwing nuts appear to be afflicted with innumeracy

In addition to their universally abysmal historical ignorance.

1095 AD:
Medieval Sourcebook: Urban II: Speech at Council of Clermont, 1095, according to Fulcher of Chartres

1212 AD:
Medieval Sourcebook: Chronica Regiae Coloniensis, s.a.1213 | The "Children's Crusade", 1212 | Internet History Sourcebooks Project
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Old 01-12-2015, 14:08   #111
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It was my twaddle originally...
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Old 01-12-2015, 16:23   #112
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Looks like Freeswill is the ignorant one. Did you even read what you posted?
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Old 01-12-2015, 17:08   #113
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Of course.

As usual your ignorance is showing, "reverend."
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Old 01-12-2015, 17:21   #114
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
Of course.

As usual your ignorance is showing, "reverend."
I know that when you say "ignorance", you mean lack of liberal brainwashing. Of course, to brainwash a liberal you give them an enema.

Jihad vs Crusades - Political Islam
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Old 01-12-2015, 17:48   #115
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First time you got half right.

Originally Posted by reverendg View Post
I know that when you say "ignorance", you mean lack of liberal brainwashing. Of course, to brainwash a liberal you give them an enema.

Jihad vs Crusades - Political Islam
Nice reference, now would you care to draw a conclusion from it other than the Liberal Bashing gibberish.
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Old 01-12-2015, 18:02   #116
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Talking A little known fact

I don't know about you , but back when I was a young man , I was no doubt in a crusade to stop the commies from taking over a little $hit hole of a country known as Vietnam !


I was there " killing for Jesus " , and I don't mean Paco's relatives either ! ................

Those folks who won out and wanted it better than our chicken-$hit allies , those damn worthless ARVINs, are today our trading partners and they allowed us crusaders who were there , the right to return for the right amount of money !

They learned to like us ! ...............


What a deal !
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Old 01-12-2015, 18:03   #117
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You are full of shіt, "reverend."

Originally Posted by reverendg View Post
I know that when you say "ignorance", you mean lack of liberal brainwashing. Of course, to brainwash a liberal you give them an enema.

Jihad vs Crusades - Political Islam
You are the one in need of an enema.

I provide the original source that proves my contention.

What do you do?

Ignore history and instead link to a modern-day hack with an un-American agenda.
Anti-Muslim crusaders make millions spreading fear | Tennessean

You and your hateful, lying sources are un-American and un-Christian. We have freedom of religion in this country, "reverend," and one of the Ten Commandments forbids the bearing of false witness against neighbors, both of which the pseudonymous "Bill Warner" violates as he peddles lies to the fearful and ignorant in exchange for money.
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Old 01-12-2015, 18:12   #118
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
The Crusades were launched to rid Europe of its surplus of useless knights and brigands.
The illterate and the addicts and idolaters of The Lie need not bother.

In 1094 or 1095, Alexios I Komnenos, the Byzantine emperor, sent to the pope, Urban II, and asked for aid from the west against the Seljuq Turks, who taken nearly all of Asia Minor from him. At the council of Clermont Urban addressed a great crowd and urged all to go to the aid of the Greeks and to recover Palestine from the rule of the Muslims. The acts of the council have not been preserved, but we have five accounts of the speech of Urban which were written by men who were present and heard him.

1. Fulcher of Chartres ...

Most beloved brethren: Urged by necessity, I, Urban, by the permission of God chief bishop and prelate over the whole world, have come into these parts as an ambassador with a divine admonition to you, the servants of God. I hoped to find you as faithful and as zealous in the service of God as I had supposed you to be. But if there is in you any deformity or crookedness contrary to God's law, with divine help I will do my best to remove it. For God has put you as stewards over his family to minister to it. Happy indeed will you be if he finds you faithful in your stewardship. You are called shepherds; see that you do not act as hirelings. But be true shepherds, with your crooks always in your hands. Do not go to sleep, but guard on all sides the flock committed to you. For if through your carelessness or negligence a wolf carries away one of your sheep, you will surely lose the reward laid up for you with God. And after you have been bitterly scourged with remorse for your faults-, you will be fiercely overwhelmed in hell, the abode of death. For according to the gospel you are the salt of the earth [Matt. 5:13]. But if you fall short in your duty, how, it may be asked, can it be salted? O how great the need of salting! It is indeed necessary for you to correct with the salt of wisdom this foolish people which is so devoted to the pleasures of this -world, lest the Lord, when He may wish to speak to them, find them putrefied by their sins unsalted and stinking. For if He, shall find worms, that is, sins, In them, because you have been negligent in your duty, He will command them as worthless to be thrown into the abyss of unclean things. And because you cannot restore to Him His great loss, He will surely condemn you and drive you from His loving presence. But the man who applies this salt should be prudent, provident, modest, learned, peaceable, watchful, pious, just, equitable, and pure. For how can the ignorant teach others? How can the licentious make others modest? And how can the impure make others pure? If anyone hates peace, how can he make others peaceable ? Or if anyone has soiled his hands with baseness, how can he cleanse the impurities of another? We read also that if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the ditch [Matt. 15:14]. But first correct yourselves, in order that, free from blame , you may be able to correct those who are subject to you. If you wish to be the friends of God, gladly do the things which you know will please Him. You must especially let all matters that pertain to the church be controlled by the law of the church. And be careful that simony does not take root among you, lest both those who buy and those who sell [church offices] be beaten with the scourges of the Lord through narrow streets and driven into the place of destruction and confusion. Keep the church and the clergy in all its grades entirely free from the secular power. See that the tithes that belong to God are faithfully paid from all the produce of the land; let them not be sold or withheld. If anyone seizes a bishop let him be treated as an outlaw. If anyone seizes or robs monks, or clergymen, or nuns, or their servants, or pilgrims, or merchants, let him be anathema [that is, cursed]. Let robbers and incendiaries and all their accomplices be expelled from the church and anthematized. If a man who does not give a part of his goods as alms is punished with the damnation of hell, how should he be punished who robs another of his goods? For thus it happened to the rich man in the gospel [Luke 16:19]; he was not punished because he had stolen the goods of another, but because he had not used well the things which were his.

"You have seen for a long time the great disorder in the world caused by these crimes. It is so bad in some of your provinces, I am told, and you are so weak in the administration of justice, that one can hardly go along the road by day or night without being attacked by robbers; and whether at home or abroad one is in danger of being despoiled either by force or fraud. Therefore it is necessary to reenact the truce, as it is commonly called, which was proclaimed a long time ago by our holy fathers. I exhort and demand that you, each, try hard to have the truce kept in your diocese. And if anyone shall be led by his cupidity or arrogance to break this truce, by the authority of God and with the sanction of this council he shall be anathematized."

After these and various other matters had been attended to, all who were present, clergy and people, gave thanks to God and agreed to the pope's proposition. They all faithfully promised to keep the decrees. Then the pope said that in another part of the world Christianity was suffering from a state of affairs that was worse than the one just mentioned. He continued:

"Although, O sons of God, you have promised more firmly than ever to keep the peace among yourselves and to preserve the rights of the church, there remains still an important work for you to do. Freshly quickened by the divine correction, you must apply the strength of your righteousness to another matter which concerns you as well as God. For your brethren who live in the east are in urgent need of your help, and you must hasten to give them the aid which has often been promised them. For, as the most of you have heard, the Turks and Arabs have attacked them and have conquered the territory of Romania [the Greek empire] as far west as the shore of the Mediterranean and the Hellespont, which is called the Arm of St. George. They have occupied more and more of the lands of those Christians, and have overcome them in seven battles. They have killed and captured many, and have destroyed the churches and devastated the empire. If you permit them to continue thus for awhile with impurity, the faithful of God will be much more widely attacked by them. On this account I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ's heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it.

"All who die by the way, whether by land or by sea, or in battle against the pagans, shall have immediate remission of sins. This I grant them through the power of God with which I am invested. O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ! With what reproaches will the Lord overwhelm us if you do not aid those who, with us, profess the Christian religion! Let those who have been accustomed unjustly to wage private warfare against the faithful now go against the infidels and end with victory this war which should have been begun long ago. Let those who for a long time, have been robbers, now become knights. Let those who have been fighting against their brothers and relatives now fight in a proper way against the barbarians. Let those who have been serving as mercenaries for small pay now obtain the eternal reward. Let those who have been wearing themselves out in both body and soul now work for a double honor. Behold! on this side will be the sorrowful and poor, on that, the rich; on this side, the enemies of the Lord, on that, his friends. Let those who go not put off the journey, but rent their lands and collect money for their expenses; and as soon as winter is over and spring comes, let hem eagerly set out on the way with God as their guide."

Source:

Bongars, Gesta Dei per Francos, 1, pp. 382 f., trans in Oliver J. Thatcher, and Edgar Holmes McNeal, eds., A Source Book for Medieval History, (New York: Scribners, 1905), 513-17
...
Medieval Sourcebook: Urban II: Speech at Council of Clermont, 1095, according to Fulcherof Chartres
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Old 01-12-2015, 18:28   #119
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Originally Posted by reverendg View Post
I know that when you say "ignorance", you mean lack of liberal brainwashing. Of course, to brainwash a liberal you give them an enema.

Jihad vs Crusades - Political Islam
Thank you for the link to that map. No surprise to those who've studied history, but its an excellent illustration for the common folk who never studied the history of Islam's conflict with civilization.

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Old 01-12-2015, 18:32   #120
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
The illterate and the addicts and idolaters of The Lie need not bother.


Medieval Sourcebook: Urban II: Speech at Council of Clermont, 1095, according to Fulcherof Chartres

And where does this back your assertion? I don't see anywhere that it references getting rid of excess knights. But it does reference the real, and documented conquest by islam.
I guess you aren't that literate.

"Although, O sons of God, you have promised more firmly than ever to keep the peace among yourselves and to preserve the rights of the church, there remains still an important work for you to do. Freshly quickened by the divine correction, you must apply the strength of your righteousness to another matter which concerns you as well as God. For your brethren who live in the east are in urgent need of your help, and you must hasten to give them the aid which has often been promised them. For, as the most of you have heard, the Turks and Arabs have attacked them and have conquered the territory of Romania [the Greek empire] as far west as the shore of the Mediterranean and the Hellespont, which is called the Arm of St. George. They have occupied more and more of the lands of those Christians, and have overcome them in seven battles. They have killed and captured many, and have destroyed the churches and devastated the empire. If you permit them to continue thus for awhile with impurity, the faithful of God will be much more widely attacked by them."

My source is quite valid. I know, you don't understand things like that. Every single one of the battles is very real, and if you look closely, you will see the years listed as well. Pay close attention.
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Old 01-12-2015, 18:33   #121
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You and the fake "reverend" have chosen ignorance over civilization, grumpy.
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Old 01-12-2015, 18:40   #122
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Originally Posted by freesw View Post
You and the fake "reverend" have chosen ignorance over civilization, grumpy.
Of course not, I would always choose civilization over you.
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Old 01-12-2015, 18:48   #123
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Guess you missed this part when you where reading Rev.

Originally Posted by reverendg View Post
Of course not, I would always choose civilization over you.
Sounds like a defensive action to me Rev:
The crusaders often pillaged the countries through which they travelled in the typical medieval manner of supplying an army on the move. Nobles often retained much of the territory gained rather than returning it to the Byzantines as they had sworn to do.[9][10] The Peoples' Crusade prompted Rhineland massacres and the murder of thousands of Jews. In the late 19th century this episode was used by Jewish historians to support Zionism.[11] The Fourth Crusade resulted in the sack of Constantinople by the Roman Catholics, effectively ending the chance of reuniting the Christian church by reconciling the East–West Schism and leading to the weakening and eventual fall of the Byzantine Empire to the Ottomans. Nevertheless, some crusaders were merely poor people trying to escape the hardships of medieval life in an armed pilgrimage leading to Apotheosis at Jerusalem.[12]
Don't get critical if you don't read all the links yourself.
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Old 01-12-2015, 19:12   #124
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Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet View Post
Sounds like a defensive action to me Rev:
The crusaders often pillaged the countries through which they travelled in the typical medieval manner of supplying an army on the move. Nobles often retained much of the territory gained rather than returning it to the Byzantines as they had sworn to do.[9][10] The Peoples' Crusade prompted Rhineland massacres and the murder of thousands of Jews. In the late 19th century this episode was used by Jewish historians to support Zionism.[11] The Fourth Crusade resulted in the sack of Constantinople by the Roman Catholics, effectively ending the chance of reuniting the Christian church by reconciling the East–West Schism and leading to the weakening and eventual fall of the Byzantine Empire to the Ottomans. Nevertheless, some crusaders were merely poor people trying to escape the hardships of medieval life in an armed pilgrimage leading to Apotheosis at Jerusalem.[12]
Don't get critical if you don't read all the links yourself.
Yes, it was a defensive action.
Love your use of "often" and "prompted", and "resulted". In other words, not the actual reasons, spurious events, and opinions instead of facts.
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Old 01-12-2015, 19:16   #125
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Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet View Post
Try some Testimonials or Educational References when you toss out your Self Serving Flatulate, Please return to your chant prior to preforming your self-flagellation to receive purity prior to posting more Papal Fabrications.
I don't chant or flagellate, you must be a bit weird.
i do bless bikes on occasion though.
You make far too many assumptions as to my identity.
I did not post any "papal fabrications", in fact the only quote I listed came from freeswill's posting. Oops.
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