Shooting Sports Forum

Shooting Sports Forum (http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/index.php)
-   M14 and M1A Talk (http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=85)
-   -   HereĚs why itĚs a good thing the US military is getting rid of the M14 (http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=134057)

whofarted 09-09-2016 06:08

Hereís why itís a good thing the US military is getting rid of the M14
 
It's a good thing the US military is getting rid of the M14 - Business Insider

"The M14 is one of the worst DMRs in history, and should have never been adopted by the military."




I thought you guys may like this one.

Lurp2 09-09-2016 07:52

Don't care what the article says I always liked the M 14, and as in the article the men who carried one in Iraq an Afghanistan liked them too.
Better rifles will always come along but the M 14 has its place and in this "spray and pray"
combat world the guy with the M14 stands tall.

RJF 09-09-2016 08:00

Quote:

Interestingly, postwar investigations suggested the M1 Carbineís light weight and high cyclic rate of fire were more responsible for this lack of stopping power than the cartridge itself ó meaning, most soldiers simply missed their targets because of the gunís recoil.
WTF??? That para sorta made me somewhat skeptical of the rest of the article.

Durango Ranger 09-09-2016 08:32

Is this the failure of a Military Rifle? Or better yet is this the success of the Lobbyist who work for the trade unions and arms companies who need more government contracts. I find it interesting this news is being released 3 months before an election.

Voyager28 09-09-2016 09:41

In Vietnam I had the option of M-14 or M-16. Opted for and carried the M-14 for 18 months and would do it all again. Even with the extra weight of both rifle and ammo, I loved it. More times than I can count I was able to take out targets the 16 just couldn't get to.

Bob

RJF 09-09-2016 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager28 (Post 1124017)
In Vietnam I had the option of M-14 or M-16. Opted for and carried the M-14 for 18 months and would do it all again. Even with the extra weight of both rifle and ammo, I loved it. More times than I can count I was able to take out targets the 16 just couldn't get to.

Bob

My brother's sentiments, exactly.

H2O MAN 09-09-2016 17:43

A few facts that are not included is this poorly researched article.

1. Was the AR-10 meant to be a sniper or DMR platform when it was developed in the 1950s? No it wasn't.

2. There really isn't anything wrong with the M14, this is more of a training issue & desire for similar manual of arms.

3. The M14 EBR came into being in 2000, BUT it didn't get any serious backing / funding until 2010 when TACOM started building the highly successful M14EBR-RI.

Also:

"The Infantry School and the Army Marksmanship unit both actively campaigned against the reintroduction of the M14 because if successful it would have taken money away from newer weapons that would have taken years to develop and field. We needed a solution in 2001 and at the time the M14 original rifle was the only approved 7.62mm auto loading rifle in the inventory." * Lw Worrell

Sabotaged from within, just as I always suspected. I wonder how many American lives were lost due to this internal struggle...


http://www.sageinternationalltd.com/...ock_Island.pdf

Durango Ranger 09-09-2016 17:53

H20 Man a very insightful post.

hks95134 09-09-2016 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by whofarted (Post 1123713)
It's a good thing the US military is getting rid of the M14 - Business Insider

"The M14 is one of the worst DMRs in history, and should have never been adopted by the military."


I thought you guys may like this one.

In truth, although the M-14 is not great for CQB, it is the very best combat rifle the USMC has ever had. With iron sights it is accurate to 750 yards.

And the cartridge itself is perfect for killing people and small deer.

The only combat rifle that even compares favorable with it is the Japanese 6.5 mm.

RJF 09-09-2016 19:03

Quote:

The only combat rifle that even compares favorable with it is the Japanese 6.5 mm.
Or the M1 Garand???

hks95134 09-09-2016 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJF (Post 1124673)
Or the M1 Garand???

You do not need a 30-06 cartridge to kill a man.

The 308 is plenty from 750 yards.

And 750 yards is plenty of distance.

nac82xx 09-09-2016 19:32

Blatant Instigation! :P ;)

H2O MAN 09-10-2016 05:57

When the hit piece article mentions accuracy, keep in mind that TACOM RI rejected any EBR that wasn't shooting 1.5 MOA or better.

http://www.sageinternationalltd.com/...ock_Island.pdf

Durango Ranger 09-11-2016 21:00

Too bad they will not sell these to American civilians. These are classed as Machine Guns. I expect the BATFE would block such sales. Our government does not trust us? Whoa!! Maybe the government fears it's citizens. No! would they do that??

Ontos 09-11-2016 21:06

While there are some factual issues with the article, the bulk of it is on. Time for the M-14's to go away and be replaced with M110's.

nac82xx 09-12-2016 05:00

Ontos, you seemed to have missed a couple of issues of Army Times. https://www.armytimes.com/story/mili...m110/82526646/

dh1633pm 09-12-2016 16:08

Hit piece.

Chieftain 09-13-2016 13:37

Like my brothers above stated, I carried a M14 in Vietnam for two tours with the 3rdMarDiv. (67/68/69). I considered myself lucky to be in a situation that allowed me to fend off having to trade my M14 for a Mattey Mattel POS, When the XM16E1 was issued to our units,

My M14 NEVER failed to go bang, unlike the Mattey Mattel. Many a fire fight I had to give my sidearm to a Marine with a single shot automatic rifle.

If I went to war today, I believe I would get my SCAR Mk16s big brother, the Mk17 in 7.62 NATO. If restricted to iron sights, my M1A/M14 would be fine. The M14 is not practical when optics are needed.

There is a reason no other serious military gun maker world wide uses gas impingement, not practical in a combat weapon. Fine for amateurs and/or low intensity combat purposes, but not high intensity combat, where the M16-M4's still regularly fail.

Who ever wrote the article was at best ignorant, at worst propagandizing.

Go figure.

Fred

D2wing 09-13-2016 17:05

As someone who put new nine out of ten shots in the same hole with an off the rack M-14, I would say this article sells the M-14 short. One of my best friends was a sniper in Nam using a scoped M-14. He has high praise for it and pictures of him and his M-14 are in three books on Vietnam. A least one book tells of his exploits in combat with it.
While I agree that the M-16 is even more accurate, the M-14 is as good or better than any other rifle in it's vintage. I would not dispute that new AR10 type rifles may be an improvement, the M-14 has served extremely well considering it is designed to be a main battle rifle.

H2O MAN 09-17-2016 06:11

We will see more new HK G28E & SCAR H CQC rifles, and less of the old M110 & MK14EBR-RI.

M14sRock 10-08-2016 20:50

Accurate.
Reliable.
Durable.
Ergonomic.
Great trigger.
Best sights ever put on a military rifle.

The M14 is as useful today, maybe more so, than it was when first fielded. I've never known anyone who used one in the field who has a single bad thing to say about it.

rWt 10-09-2016 09:49

I entered the Army in March, 1967. The issue rifle was the M14. Like with a helmet, you simply get used to the weight. I remember easily qualifying expert with it.

Entered OCS later that year and recall barely achieving expert with a M16. Too light and whippy.

Served with the 101st Airborne in I Corp during 1968 and into 1969. The M16 was our only option. To avoid failures we swapped out ammo and magazines for new ones whenever we could; loaded only 18 rounds in the magazines and cleaned them every day.

I have a Ruger Mini 14. At the age of 69 I appreciate light weight and low recoil for the casual shooting I do now. I chose the Mini because if I ever need to I'm sure I could reliably run several hundred rounds through it without a cleaning. Can't say that about a lot of AR's. I lucked out and got a Mini 14 that happens to shoot small groups if I do my part. From time to time I look at the M1A's, but I am happy with what I have.

101 airborne 10-23-2016 08:45

The M14 was a life taker and a heart breaker. RVN 68/69

RJF 10-23-2016 17:36

101, welcome aboard from Central Virginia!

Scorpion of Mars 11-19-2016 16:37

Meant to comment on this a while ago.

So its the worst DMR. - Problem, it is not a DMR, it is a main battle rifle, that in certain cases was modified to fill the DMR roll. Outdated when it came out, by what? Gotta be a crappy rifle since its never used in competition!:rolleyes:

Main battle rifles and assault rifles are different creatures. I guess he doesnt understand the range and stopping dynamics.:wacko:

Yes the M1 carbine has terrible kick. It has nothing to do with a weak cartridge and multiple layers on clothing. Military said so, so it must be true!:rolleyes:

Note he says bridges the gap between the M4 and the M24. Well I would say more like a full size m-16 and the M-24. His argument really starts to fail here. You did what you asked the M-14 to do, and it did it.

If its in a Sage EBR chassis system, why would it be glued. Second, not all where in chassis.

Accuracy is not a measure of consistency, precision is!

Camp Perry dumped the M14, really, did someone tell Camp Perry????????

The M1A is sooo bad, and useless, that Springfield Armory is even holding there own shooting category.

Just to toss it in there, the AR10 came first!

No additional training is needed either. So they just train our boys to shoot an m-16 or m-4, then give them a AR10, and set them loose on the battle field.

Oops, almost forgot, what about bolt guns? Eh, nevermind

This has got to be one of the stupidest, most ignorant, uniformed pieces I have ever read.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:03.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All information is copyright by Perfectunion.com unless already under copyright.