Will Ruger's Mini ever become as accurate as the M1A/M-14? - Shooting Sports Forum


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Old 06-06-2015, 19:40   #1
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Will Ruger's Mini ever become as accurate as the M1A/M-14?

It is time for the Faithful to confess that at the 600 Yard Target Competition line Rodent Rifles (AR's) in 5.56/.223 have become every bit as accurate as the M-14/M1A. Some members of this forum have expressed the opinion that Ruger's Mini have become as accurate as the M-14/M1A, but I don't know of any Sanctioned Competition that bears this out. How many shooters have ever meet a fellow competitor on the 600 or 300 Yard Line armed with one of Ruger's Mini's? How many have lost a Match to anyone armed with a Mini? I'd sure like to understand what makes the noncompetitive believe that Ruger's Mini is as accurate as either the M-14 or M1A? Until someone can attest to a Ruger Mini Winning a Sanctioned 600 or 300 Yard Event against M1A/M-14 Competitors I'm putting this in the category of Fantasy. Sound off if you have any rebuttals or Affirmations. Thanks ahead of time. SMOKEY.
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Old 06-06-2015, 20:21   #2
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Personally I think that's asking a lot from the Mini ,while it's heritage belongs to the M1 platform/design the calibers are vastly different ... Frankly speaking it's no comparison out past 200 yards IMO . I'm no ballistic expert and my only comparison is to my own Socom 16 , it is not really a long distant shooter either, but capable out to 300 yards .Wts you can expect similar groups in 150 yards . Recently My best group with my 580 series is just under 1 1/4" My Socom will do about the same.
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Old 06-06-2015, 20:29   #3
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seadawg, I'm not a Mini-14 Expert, but I've never shot over two inch groups at 300 yards with any of the M-14/M1A platforms I've been issued or owned. I haven't seen anyone posting verified groups like that yet with a Mini? Maybe I missed them?
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Old 06-06-2015, 20:40   #4
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Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet View Post
seadawg, I'm not a Mini-14 Expert, but I've never shot over two inch groups at 300 yards with any of the M-14/M1A platforms I've been issued or owned. I haven't seen anyone posting verified groups like that yet with a Mini? Maybe I missed them?
Well I have yet to shoot past 225 yards with mine and that's as far as my out door range goes but I am also a member of the M14 forum and some of those guys can really reach out and touch someone ...my eyes are getting old and my optics are not very hi-power either so I can't really say if I have pushed my rifles to there limits...
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Old 06-06-2015, 20:42   #5
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Zeroed 6.5" high at 100 ms my 189 series M30 groups around 3.5" @ 200ms with Lapua or Sako 123 gr fmj from standing rested on a good day for me.
I have 2x7 Burris mil-dot mounted. Not bad for a M30.
I've been trying schedule range trip to practice prone and kneeling. I'm confident can , do well if I do my.part.
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Old 06-06-2015, 20:44   #6
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I doubt many people would put as much money into accurizing a Mini-14 as an M14/M1A. You'd have to put some money in a Mini to get sub-MOA. Of course that's the beauty of a decent AR-15, it's going to cost less to get sub-MOA out of 5.56/.223.
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Old 06-06-2015, 20:52   #7
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Originally Posted by Marlin 45 carbine View Post
Zeroed 6.5" high at 100 ms my 189 series M30 groups around 3.5" @ 200ms with Lapua or Sako 123 gr fmj from standing rested on a good day for me.
I have 2x7 Burris mil-dot mounted. Not bad for a M30.
I've been trying schedule range trip to practice prone and kneeling. I'm confident can , do well if I do my.part.
I do believe we have discussed the Mini-30 at 200 yards and beyond Marlin 45. But to put it into the same category as the M-14/M1A at those ranges isn't even conceivable. (Not to mention that other members of this forum have witnessed)
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Old 06-06-2015, 21:05   #8
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Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
I doubt many people would put as much money into accurizing a Mini-14 as an M14/M1A. You'd have to put some money in a Mini to get sub-MOA. Of course that's the beauty of a decent AR-15, it's going to cost less to get sub-MOA out of 5.56/.223.
Quentin, I started this with a nod to the AR. Don't expect an OLD TIMER to cow-tow to a cartridge rifle combo that's ineffective on our enemies at 300 Yards, even if It can puncture paper at 600 Yards. But many in Restricted States have turned to the Mini instead of the AR. (I will be forced to agree with you on the Mini vs AR Platform Accuracy thing) But this is about the Mini vs M1A/M-14 Platform.
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Old 06-06-2015, 21:47   #9
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You're right cheif that is a bit off topic. At 300ms though I'm sure I could provide cover fire for close assault troops.
If situation called for and I had a good rest and day my bolt. '06 with 3x9 Luepold and good 168gr Sierra match loads is apple sized targets every bang standing rested.
That's as long range field.available hereabouts.
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Old 06-06-2015, 22:00   #10
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As well you might! But how many rounds of cover fire could you produce when facing a DM with a M-14 Mod 0 or a Sniper with an M-25 while fielding a Mini? Not to Ruffle Your Feathers, but just to remind you of your roots. I'm not saying anything BAD about the Mini, but it ain't an M-14 or M1A. If your reaching for an '06 you have left your Mini in the Mire, and the 175 M118LR should be the round of choice or you just got the Second Place Trophy on the 2-Way Range. JMHO.
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Old 06-07-2015, 01:31   #11
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If I'm reading the question right, its what will it take to get Ruger to accurize its Mini to levels the M1A/M14 is capable of?

1) The LRB rifles are forged receivers, and about as good as it gets short of the original M14 receivers. Can Ruger match that with castings?

2) The M14 has sights that can be dialed in for M80 ball and set for any range the shooter can identify. Ruger would need to develop their own calibrated for M855 or similar.


3) The original M14 is chrome lined bore. In this one circumstance Nitride coating is superior to chrome, cheaper than chrome and Ruger could easily adapt.

4) Ruger would also need to improve quality control, especially with gas block torquing.
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Old 06-07-2015, 10:43   #12
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One word. No.
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Old 06-07-2015, 15:21   #13
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Originally Posted by Scorpion of Mars View Post
Hey, froggy are we leaving the target Mini-14 model out?

Also, are we looking at an unmodified Mini vs. a USGI M1A, or its it a free for all?
If we make it a free for all then you would have to match up the Mini with a Super Match, and that probably won't go so well. JMHO.

But I'd consider minor modifications, maybe even a Barrel Change to the Mini just to let it become competitive. Target model is in the mix if you so desire.

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Old 06-07-2015, 15:38   #14
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Originally Posted by jor-el View Post
If I'm reading the question right, its what will it take to get Ruger to accurize its Mini to levels the M1A/M14 is capable of?

1) The LRB rifles are forged receivers, and about as good as it gets short of the original M14 receivers. Can Ruger match that with castings?

Castings have been improved along with CNC Machining. It could be a push on receivers, especially with a rear lug and bedding block.

2) The M14 has sights that can be dialed in for M80 ball and set for any range the shooter can identify. Ruger would need to develop their own calibrated for M855 or similar.
M855 by it's design wouldn't be an Optimal Accuracy Round, MK262 would be better, but would require a change of twist rate. Maybe they should set the sighting system for M193?

3) The original M14 is chrome lined bore. In this one circumstance Nitride coating is superior to chrome, cheaper than chrome and Ruger could easily adapt.

I believe that the barrel could be one of the vast improvements that will be required to compete with the M1A/M-14. Air gauged Cryo Treated maybe even a different rifling style.

4) Ruger would also need to improve quality control, especially with gas block torquing.
There is no doubt about the Quality Control needing to be improved, and standardizing torque values would just be a start.

Excellent Post jor-el.

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Old 06-07-2015, 16:57   #15
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Originally Posted by Scorpion of Mars View Post
I love my Mini-14, it was my first centerfire autoloader. It is a handy little carbine, but it is what it is, a "ranch" rifle.

So lets look at a few things. I have a rear peep, and front winged sight - fast target acquisition, but decrease accuracy. I did a trigger job and added a strut. Improved accuracy from those. Now, Ive never even bothered in all these years to shoot at targets out to 200m with it. Theres a reason for that, and most of you can figure it out.

Lets look at my M1A. Someone good, should be able to hit at minimum 600yds with this. Choice of ammo? Whats it matter, its a .30 caliber main battle rifle? Nuff said.

No really, I will pass on the 357magnum, I would prefer the little 380 over there, its just as capable!
The ammo question concerns the potential to keep your round accurate (above super sonic) beyond 800 Meters should you have the ability to manage such shots SOM.

The AR in 5.56 has challenged if not surpassed the Old Records of the M-14/M1A out to the range of 600 Yards. So if the Mini can fire the same 5.56 Round, why hasn't Ruger been able to produce a Rifle Capable of providing the same results as the AR with the 5.56 Round? What will it take to do so?
I'm pretty sure we are all in agreement that the 357 (M-14/M1A) has far superior Battlefield capabilities than the 380 (Mini-14) but why hasn't the Mini been able to replicate the Target Performance of either the M-14 or AR Rifles?
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Old 06-07-2015, 18:01   #16
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Well, the Target Model against a Super Match (M1A Target Model) Ruger didn't invest much time or money did they.
Guess Uncle Bill was more interested in Fleecing the Flock, then Defending the Flock.
It just irks me that at 1000 Meters the main component that differentiates the systems ( Bolt, AR, M-14) is the Nut behind the Trigger! At those distances the mechanical accuracy of any of the platforms usually exceeds the shooter and there isn't an appreciable difference with the 7.62 NATO Round.
So the failings of the Mini-14 can't be mechanical deficiencies, they must be production deficiencies.
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Old 06-08-2015, 07:48   #17
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It could just be a "Bean Counter" thing, Time/Production Cost vs Profit Margin. Ruger after all hasn't developed a stellar reputation for listening to Consumer Requests. The Target Model may have been just a quick fix to their reputation instead of a serious effort at a Target Grade Mini.
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Old 06-08-2015, 14:51   #18
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Well, ran a quick test at the range today. Bowling pins are 4.75 inches wide and 15 inches tall. At 600 Yards I went 10 for 10 with my M1A. At 300 Yards I can go 10 for 10 with my Mini-30, but I was hard pressed to accomplish that. The Mini vs M1A accuracy drill, anyone that want's to put them into the same category is either a poor shot, or has one heck of a Great Mini. I'll wait for someone to post any actual proof that a Mini is as Accurate as an M1A.
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Old 06-08-2015, 16:37   #19
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Originally Posted by Scorpion of Mars View Post
Maybe some people flinch when they shoot the M1A.
Do they flinch when they shoot the Mini?
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Old 06-08-2015, 16:58   #20
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Originally Posted by Scorpion of Mars View Post
Maybe not. I think the M1A has a reasonable recoil. The MB does its job, and while it give you a good push, slight shove, its better than a bolt gun.
Let's try to leave the turnbolts out of this, I don't know if I've got what it takes to differentiate between a Turnbolt and an M1A/M-14 anymore. You are talking about splitting hairs at over a Thousand Yards. Tell you what, I'll supply the rifles and ammo, you shoot them good enough that we can post the difference here on the PU.
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Old 06-08-2015, 19:56   #21
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After spending time behind a Bolt Action 50 BMG, none of them seem to produce enough recoil to be of much concern. But maybe that's only me.
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Old 06-08-2015, 20:13   #22
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Old 06-08-2015, 20:25   #23
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Originally Posted by Scorpion of Mars View Post
Not sure if .50 is big enough for me. Theres a 20mm out there
Take it for a 2 mile swim then hump it up Mount MF'er, by the time you pet the frog's butt I'm betting .50 will be plenty big enough.
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Old 06-09-2015, 08:35   #24
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Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet View Post
Will Ruger's Mini ever become as accurate as the M1A/M-14? )
Not without a better quality barrel with a heavier profile.
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Old 06-09-2015, 15:35   #25
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Originally Posted by H2O MAN View Post
Not without a better quality barrel with a heavier profile.
I believe I've already agreed with that one page 1. But it's a very valid point H2O MAN.

"I believe that the barrel could be one of the vast improvements that will be required to compete with the M1A/M-14. Air gauged Cryo Treated maybe even a different rifling style."

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