Will Ruger's Mini ever become as accurate as the M1A/M-14? - Page 3 - Shooting Sports Forum


M14 and M1A Talk M14 and M1A rifles - General Posting

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Old 07-22-2015, 21:58   #51
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well it's simple.
steve - the chief wants to arm wrestle w/you.
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Old 07-23-2015, 10:02   #52
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Old 04-07-2016, 13:51   #53
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Bill Ruger really dropped the ball when he didn't gear up to make the M1. He had Al Cole working for him who was engineer in charge of M14 and all could have called Julio Savioli to come work for him as he was Chief Draftsman on the project. Wouldn't it be spiffy to have a M1A in stainless ! ! ! !!
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:25   #54
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The Filipino Marine Scout-Snipers are using refurbished old M-16 rifles with scopes mounted on them for sniping purposes. They also use a heavier weight bullet instead of the 55 grain standard and they're reaching out to hit some targets when needed. So the .223/5.56 cartridge has already been proven to be an effective sniper round to a certain degree in some cases and situations. But you also have to keep in mind that the Philippine Islands are a poor nation which has to make do in a lot of situations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Scout_Sniper_Rifle

https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...mp=yhs-att_001

In spite of what the Filipino Marines are doing, which is really great, I think that we could come up with a lot better rifle.
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Old 04-18-2016, 07:01   #55
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Originally Posted by Herd Sniper View Post
The Filipino Marine Scout-Snipers are using refurbished old M-16 rifles with scopes mounted on them for sniping purposes. They also use a heavier weight bullet instead of the 55 grain standard and they're reaching out to hit some targets when needed. So the .223/5.56 cartridge has already been proven to be an effective sniper round to a certain degree in some cases and situations. But you also have to keep in mind that the Philippine Islands are a poor nation which has to make do in a lot of situations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Scout_Sniper_Rifle

https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...mp=yhs-att_001

In spite of what the Filipino Marines are doing, which is really great, I think that we could come up with a lot better rifle.
We did and Ruger did. It's called an AR15.

The rifle you mentioned is at the core a DPMS Bull 24 with a threaded barrel upper on an M16 lower, JP trigger installed. The ammo in question is Federal Gold Medal Match in 69 grain trim.

DPMS is generally considered a second tier AR manufacturer, if that means anything, and that just shows the potential of the AR design.
The LEGO-like modularity of parts and the dozens of boutique parts and rifle sources means given a minimally competent armorer and sound basic lower receiver, an AR can be tailored to any quality desired restricted only by budget.

Doesn't Ruger make a piston as well as a Direct Impingement AR15? Something, something, SR-556... AR-556. Ruger really dropped the ball and let the Mini design languish; the 5800s should have been brought out back in 1990. All of the whiz-bang technology the ARs have now existed that same year, just needed development to make it cheaply enough for the average person to buy.

I seem to recall a flame war that went over this like 10 years ago.
http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewt...hp?f=16&t=8419
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Old 06-30-2016, 18:00   #56
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Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet View Post
Well, ran a quick test at the range today. Bowling pins are 4.75 inches wide and 15 inches tall. At 600 Yards I went 10 for 10 with my M1A. At 300 Yards I can go 10 for 10 with my Mini-30, but I was hard pressed to accomplish that. The Mini vs M1A accuracy drill, anyone that want's to put them into the same category is either a poor shot, or has one heck of a Great Mini. I'll wait for someone to post any actual proof that a Mini is as Accurate as an M1A.
Hey Navy which M1A were you shooting; SOCOM, Scout, Standard, Match?

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Old 11-21-2018, 16:35   #57
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I’m pretty new to this mini game having had one for twenty years but only recently gotten around to the nuts and bolts of the rifle. It seems to me that the huge gas block is the achilles heel of the mini ‘any caliber’ rifle. Too much going on here, thinnist part of bbl, the only stock to bbl attachment point, uneven compression of the bbl creating crazy bbl harmonics, even the sling swivel hung on it, I’m sure there are other issues. But has anyone ever attempted to reprofile a mini bbl and machine a slip on [ala AR type] gas block held in place with a couple set screws? As to the op’s question, it’s a shame that Ruger couldn’t work out the bugs on his first idea, the .308 XGI. Unfortunately, what he finally came up with is chambered for intermediate cartridges which are not 600 yd capable what with all the rifle’s other issues. Just my thoughts and I hope everyone travels safe and has a good turkey day.
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Old 11-26-2018, 04:55   #58
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I am afraid it is kind of like redesigning a giraffe to work like a elephant. At this late date if something could have been done it would have. The industry makes decisions on sales potential and at this late date outshooting the AR just ain't in the cards.
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:45   #59
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No, the Mini is never going to outshoot the AR, but mine are pretty close:

And with a few brands, the Mini will do better:

Not every shot requires taking out a target by putting one through it's eye.
The Mini is plenty accurate for me to get COM hits at 300 yards and a bit beyond.

I have AR's and so do friends. Off a bench, the AR's will do better, but you aren't going to be carrying a bench around with you in the field.
From unsupported positions, I can do just as well with a Mini.
My 3 Mini-30's are easily as accurate as their bigger brothers that I've owned, Garands and M1A's.

Guys will brag about how their AR will shoot 1/2 MOA, but when I get them out to the range, they are lucky to keep all their shots on the paper, and that is from a bench.
A guy that is a 1/2 MOA shooter will do just as well with his 3 MOA rifle, as the guys that have a 1/2 MOA rifle but are only 3 MOA shooters.
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:30   #60
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Good enough works for me. My 2004 Explorer isn't a Corvette...Never expected it to be (other than pulling out a Corvette in a snow-storm).
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:37   #61
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Sandog, hopefully I will get to the Raleigh gun show next weekend and can find some of your silver bear hp, is it the same accuracy wise as the silver bear soft point? Also are there any other brands of x39 that I should look for?
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Old 01-13-2019, 13:57   #62
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I haven't tried the soft point, but some guys like it for hogs.
There are several others that are decent, any of them are better than Tula.
I just bought some Golden Bear, brass plating over the steel case, will try that next weekend.
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Old 08-05-2019, 14:19   #63
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very interesting thread as i have never read anything that made it sound like the m14/M1A was significantly more accurate than the mini 14?

at greater distances? sure the 308 will outperform the 223...but that is really a cartridge comparison...not rifle.

i know their are "match" and "super match" models of M1A and some that have been made to be very accurate. but the average M1A/M14 has never gotten props for being much more accurate than a mini 14 at say 100-200 yards....

no expert here at all. just a curiosity question really. i tuned my mini to shoot about 2" at 100 yards, others i know tuned minis to close to MOA. never heard of a standard M1A doing so much better than that. what generally kept me from buying an m14/M1A was accuracy reports similar to the mini 14 in a rifle that cost twice as much.

but a recent turn of events (i'm not telling...heehee) MIGHT give me an opportunity to test them out "head to head."
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:38   #64
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Alright Hawkguy...if you tease me you will make me mean.

Now that you have left that dangling you better deliver...inquiring minds want to know!

Details man...we need details...
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Old 08-06-2019, 12:06   #65
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Originally Posted by jumpluff View Post
Alright Hawkguy...if you tease me you will make me mean.

Now that you have left that dangling you better deliver...inquiring minds want to know!

Details man...we need details...
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Old 08-12-2019, 16:12   #66
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I once heard a story about a rich guy who tried to improve the accuracy of a Mini-14. He went to great lengths to get the job done. He had the whole rifle taken apart. He had some parts replaced with stainless steel. He had some parts put in cryogenics freezing to align molecules. He had the barrel and upper receiver glass bedded to the lower frame. The cryogenics itself cost a wheelbarrow load of money. In the end, the design of the mini made all his efforts useless. The rifle still shot like a Mini-14. It's just the way those rifles are.

The Mini-14 is meant for high speed, close quarter combat like the Miami Shootout shows us. When you use the Mini-14 like a modern carbine you have accuracy and a highly maneuverable firearm to use for personal defense. It can't be beat for that kind of operation. For longer range accuracy, let's face it, the Mini-14 won't have it.
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Old 08-12-2019, 16:59   #67
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Originally Posted by Herd Sniper View Post
I once heard a story about a rich guy who tried to improve the accuracy of a Mini-14. He went to great lengths to get the job done. He had the whole rifle taken apart. He had some parts replaced with stainless steel. He had some parts put in cryogenics freezing to align molecules. He had the barrel and upper receiver glass bedded to the lower frame. The cryogenics itself cost a wheelbarrow load of money. In the end, the design of the mini made all his efforts useless. The rifle still shot like a Mini-14. It's just the way those rifles are.

The Mini-14 is meant for high speed, close quarter combat like the Miami Shootout shows us. When you use the Mini-14 like a modern carbine you have accuracy and a highly maneuverable firearm to use for personal defense. It can't be beat for that kind of operation. For longer range accuracy, let's face it, the Mini-14 won't have it.
Well I'm not one for fish stories, but it sounds like the "rich guy" took his Mini to the wrong people or tried all the wrong moves. As a poor trade skills worker, I didn't spend a fortune to accurize my Mini 14. I just went out got a better barrel and fitted all the moving parts in the rifle. It will carry that little .223 bullet as far as it can go... accurately.

As I said, I'm not one for fish stories so I made documented proof of an "Accurate" Mini 14 shooting a 5 shot group at 100 yards producing 1.3 inches with basic winchester ammo... Not match grade or tuned hand loads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgpvVvB4SOo
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:15   #68
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Herd Sniper;1576936]I once heard a story about a rich guy who tried to improve the accuracy of a Mini-14. He went to great lengths to get the job done. He had the whole rifle taken apart. He had some parts replaced with stainless steel. He had some parts put in cryogenics freezing to align molecules. He had the barrel and upper receiver glass bedded to the lower frame. The cryogenics itself cost a wheelbarrow load of money. In the end, the design of the mini made all his efforts useless. The rifle still shot like a Mini-14. It's just the way those rifles are.
did this guy's name begin with dumb and end with....nevermind. honestly, this the guy would have had better results to come to the PU and spend 100 bucks with some expert advice. he was "looking for love" in all the wrong places....

The Mini-14 is meant for high speed, close quarter combat like the Miami Shootout shows us. When you use the Mini-14 like a modern carbine you have accuracy and a highly maneuverable firearm to use for personal defense. It can't be beat for that kind of operation. For longer range accuracy, let's face it, the Mini-14 won't have it.
i agree. its a carbine and really made for inside 300 yards. i think to compare a mini to a M1A or AR-10 in regards to distance, simply isn't an apples to apples comparison.

but the title "will the mini ever be as accurate as the M1A?"....well, @ 100 yards, i'd like to see real evidence that the M14/M1a significantly outperforms the mini....because nothing i have ever seen or read, supports this idea.

if the title said "@500-600" yards....well, ok then.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:45   #69
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The guy I was told about had more money than sense. What he did with his Mini-14 to make it a better shooter happened many, many years ago. If I had to guess, probably about 7 to 10 years after the Mini-14s first came out. He actually went to a university cryogenics lab to see if they could help him and paid them to freeze his barrel for him. According to the story, cryogenics aligns the molecules in the same pattern and, for this rich guy, he thought such a treatment might help increase the accuracy in some fashion. Not being an engineer, I don't understand the science behind the use of cryogenics that this rich guy was trying to produce.

Any way, the Mini-14 is good in some ways and lacking in other ways. Like all firearms, it's not the perfect firearm because there is no such thing as a perfect firearm. The Mini-14 does fill a niche if you train to properly use it. You can whip a Mini-14 around with great speed and accuracy in a tactical situation to deliver deadly fire where needed. Same thing can be said about Marlin lever action saddle carbines too. I know one police firearms instructor who considers carbines to be the best emergency firearm for law enforcement officers to have on hand in a tactical situation.
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