Hypothetical Case - No Semi Autos - Shooting Sports Forum


Guns Guns Guns Miscellaneous firearms forum

Like Tree55Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-25-2018, 06:28   #1
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,286
Hypothetical Case - No Semi Autos

Okay guys this one is not supposed to be political, but is supposed to provide info to the noobs out there as to a good working battery of guns in the event that semi-autos are banned at some point in the not-too-distant future.

Really just a thought experiment (hopefully). Rules of the road are no self loaders, none, nada.

1. Self defense. I would break this into two problems, EDC and fullsize sidearm for home defense.
a. Full size: Ruger GP100 4" Stainless. Its a .357 so you've got a decently powerful cartridge and the ability to accept lower powered .38 spl for training and interoperability with your EDC. Adjustable sights are a must and a stainless gun won't have problems with marring of the finish or corrosion that a blued gun will.
b. EDC: S&W J frame. Whether its a Chief's Special, a Bodyguard, or a Centennial, they all work and work well. An alloy frame will weigh down your pocket less, and again stainless is nice particularly since it will probably be carried where sweat induced corrosion can be an issue.

2. Home Defense longarm: 12 ga pump. Remington, Mossberg, and Ithaca all make good guns. Remmy has an edge in that some models of 870 come with a short mag tube so you can go mild (if your local laws prohibit bigger mags) or wild (if they don't). My personal poison of choice has always been the Ithaca 37, though its pricier. Very old guns will only take 2-3/4" shells but will have a "slamfire" trigger. On those guns, hold down the trigger and every time you pump the action closed, it fires. Very very fast in the right hands, dangerous in the wrong ones. I would load with buckshot if in a home, slugs if in the country. And get a full stock, pistol grips look sexy but cut the utility of the gun, while I have yet to have a satisfactory folding stock on a shotgun.

3. Rifles: For a true carbine, I would go with a lever gun in .357. Range is limited over what a "real" rifle cartridge can do but you have good firepower with quick followup shots. Problem is which one. I'm a lifelong Marlin guy, but their guns of late have not been as good as previously (my last two Marlins both went back to the factory immediately upon purchase). Still I would probably stay with a Marlin but test it thoroughly. Other options are Rossi and Henry. For a lightweight bolt rifle, something of the Scout configuration, whether a Ruger GSR or a Mossberg MVP seems like a good candidate. For caliber, .308 is the best option, cheap (for a full power round), good range, hits hard. Get a good optic too, since the whole point to the exercise is to engage targets that are beyond shotgun slug range, and if you're like me your eyes ain't gettin' any younger.
For me though I like a heavier rifle for real reach out and touch 'em hard work. That would be the Rem 700 SPS tac, 20" heavy bbl in .308 with a decent bipod, Turner shooting sling, and kevlar stock. For an optic I would try to keep it under a grand, but SWFA makes some nice glass in that price range.

So for me personally if I had to start over after a terrible boating accident and the ground rules were "no semi autos", I would pick GP100 4", S&W Airweight Bodyguard .38 spl, Ithaca 37 5 shot 18-1/2" tube Home Defense and Remington 700 SPS Tac .308 with goodies outlined above. For a carbine style rifle, I would pick up a Marlin '94 in .357 and hope I got a good one. Torn on the MVP vs GSR.

Just ideas. Hope we never need to put 'em to the test.
What are your ideas for a good (legal) battery of guns in a post semi-auto version of America?

Grumpy
grumpy_old_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 06:55   #2
Full Member
 
dh1633pm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Central New York
Posts: 6,771
Sorry but your dead right. Well almost. The 45 Colt in a modern lever gun will tear the 357 a new one. With the 357 also perfect for the job. A good lever gun can fire fast and be reloaded on the fly like a pump. For hunting and all around carry the GSR or an equivalent works well. I like the synthetic stock better due to weight issues.

For reach out, there are plenty with the 700 being the rifle of choice.

Other options that we have already played around with are AR's with no mag wells, mag wells with bolts welded through, and other options to convert them to single shots or non semi's with straight pull actions.
grumpy_old_man likes this.
dh1633pm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 07:08   #3
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,286
Originally Posted by dh1633pm View Post
Sorry but your dead right. Well almost. The 45 Colt in a modern lever gun will tear the 357 a new one. With the 357 also perfect for the job. A good lever gun can fire fast and be reloaded on the fly like a pump. For hunting and all around carry the GSR or an equivalent works well. I like the synthetic stock better due to weight issues.

For reach out, there are plenty with the 700 being the rifle of choice.

Other options that we have already played around with are AR's with no mag wells, mag wells with bolts welded through, and other options to convert them to single shots or non semi's with straight pull actions.
Y'know I personally prefer the .45 Colt over the .357 myself. Went that way due to commonality with the snub nose, but I could easily be persuaded to swap my Redhawk in for the GP100 in that scenario, and (if money allowed) add in a Marlin in .45 Colt, then look into a Bond Arms derringer in .45 Colt (one of the ones that is purely set up for the Colt, not a .410/.45 bbl) as a hideout gun.

All time favorite defensive revolver is the Colt Detective Special, '70's era with the shrouded ejector rod. Never had a bad one either in steel or alloy (Cobra) and they usually have a better trigger out of the box than the Smith. But the Airweight Bodyguard fits a pocket better so there's that.

Yeah, it won't be the end of the world if there is a semi auto ban, but there will be a lot of adapting that has to happen to the changed circumstances.

Grumpy
grumpy_old_man is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 02-25-2018, 07:21   #4
RJF
Full Member
 
RJF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Spotsylvania, VA
Posts: 5,544
Well, I guess I'd be screwed...
Only have two non-semi pistols, both .22LR (one is .22LR/.22Mag).
Only have two non-semi rifles: an ancient Rem Model 12 .22 pump that was my Grandfather's, and a Savage Axis II XP in .223.

Everything else is semi-auto.
grumpy_old_man and Ben Dover like this.
RJF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 08:34   #5
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,286
Originally Posted by RJF View Post
Well, I guess I'd be screwed...
Only have two non-semi pistols, both .22LR (one is .22LR/.22Mag).
Only have two non-semi rifles: an ancient Rem Model 12 .22 pump that was my Grandfather's, and a Savage Axis II XP in .223.

Everything else is semi-auto.
Nah, you wouldn't be screwed, that's what boating accidents are for.

But for home defense in that hypothetical case, I really would pick up a 12 ga pump and a .38 revolver. If only one revolver and neither hunting nor EDC are an issue I would consider strongly a S&W M10 "M&P". Early ones had lighter tubes, very quick handling, later ones had heavy tubes, better for snappier loads, all the M&P's had slick sights.

Probably my all-time favorite 4" .38 spl duty revolver was the S&W M15 Combat Masterpiece. Light tube, walnut target stocks, adjustable sights and a very high level of fit and finish. If y'all ever see one of those up for sale cheap, snag it. I wouldn't feel in any way poorly defended with one of those, and they're wonderful for use with 148 gr wadcutters. Used to spend hours at the range with one, shooting groups, not combat style, just relaxed target work. Great fun.

Grumpy
RJF likes this.
grumpy_old_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 11:14   #6
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mn.
Posts: 192
If they take the AR’S, all semi autos,pumps,lever actions of any type will be eventually banned. What do you think will happen the first time some nut walks into a crowd with a pump shotgun loaded with buckshot ? I don’t think people will give up AR’S without a blood bath.
2rangers likes this.
Augie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 11:31   #7
Full Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 106
All the semi-auto's just need to be turned into full auto's. Plenty of them around and nobody is using them to shoot up the people.

You know how they will solve this is money. They will tax and insure everyone to death and line their pockets with the money as they always do.
PFerris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 13:10   #8
RJF
Full Member
 
RJF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Spotsylvania, VA
Posts: 5,544
But for home defense in that hypothetical case, I really would pick up a 12 ga pump and a .38 revolver.
Yup. I sorta have regrets getting a Mossy 930, but for differing reasons. Shoulda gone with a pump, but thought if one arm is disabled, can still put five rounds through it. Problem is it needs a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked to load the "+4". I just don't trust safeties...at least on the Mossy: too easy to accidentally move it to "fire"...
grumpy_old_man likes this.
RJF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 14:15   #9
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 54
The media was circling the drain with the Russia Collusion case, so they jumped on the Florida school shooting story, and fanned the flames. The democrats bought and paid for the obviously scripted "Children's Crusade". If this is the best they can throw at us, it's
doubtful auto-loaders are going anywhere, any time soon.

OTOH, a Marlin 1894, in 44 MAG, and a S&W 629 make a nice combo...
Danoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 15:38   #10
Gunslinger
 
HopalongCassidy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: California
Posts: 608
Let's see... Don't show up to Grumps at night, unless you call ahead! Other than that, I have no idea what anyone is talking about.
2rangers, grumpy_old_man and RJF like this.
HopalongCassidy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 18:34   #11
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,286
Originally Posted by RJF View Post
Yup. I sorta have regrets getting a Mossy 930, but for differing reasons. Shoulda gone with a pump, but thought if one arm is disabled, can still put five rounds through it. Problem is it needs a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked to load the "+4". I just don't trust safeties...at least on the Mossy: too easy to accidentally move it to "fire"...
Dependin' on where you are, best bet on a used shottie is a police trade.

These days even tiny departments in podunk towns are trading up for Colt 6920's and that means they're dumping their old 12 ga riot guns. Picked up one a while back at the LGS that came from the local Sheriff's Dept and needed some tender loving care - an old Ithaca 37 Police Special DS (Deer Slayer). That's the 7 shot tube, slam-fire trigger, and ray-bar fiber-optic sight (those things go back to the late '50's!) with rifle style rear sight. Wood is beat and it really needs to be properly refinished, you can see the rust patterns from its being left in a cloth case. But she slings lead out with the best of 'em and that's all that counts. Very smooth action once I cleaned her up inside.

Seen plenty of 870's and Mossie 500's over the years too, but they usually go quicker in the shops. For some reason Ithacas never caught on with most people but they do have a cult following.

One thing to watch for is steel shot damage in older tubes. I generally don't see much of it in police trades since they're usually shot with slugs and buckshot.

Should have mentioned a couple other service revolvers to be on the lookout for - the Security Six was a fine Ruger product, usually in .357 though I have seen some in .38 spl. If you really luck out you can get a '76 model - it will have "Made in the 200th Year of American Liberty" stamped on the left hand side of the frame. Brings tears to my eyes when I see that kind of sentiment on a gun. Anyway, Security Sixes were a hell for stout gun, very rugged. Slick sight version was called the "Speed Six". Another gem is the Colt Diamondback .38 spl. Everyone is lookin' for Rick Grimes' Python (at hugely inflated prices) but the Diamondback is a beauty in its own right.

Sorry I always wax poetic over the older guns. New polymer framed things just don't seem to have a soul to 'em the way an old blued revolver with wood stocks does. Service wear from honorable duty just makes 'em more appealing and when I get one that needs some TLC I get all fatherly over it and make sure its put right so it will keep bangin' away long after I'm gone.

Grumpy
PS Thinkin' about it, though the M1 Carbine is indeed a semi auto and thus beyond the pale of this thread's premise, I wouldn't feel at all badly armed with my M1 Carbine, Ithaca 37 Police Special, and Colt Cobra revolver. Kind of a '70's vibe to it for 3-gun, but inside the range limits of the carbine I think it would rock.
grumpy_old_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2018, 00:52   #12
Full Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 8
I have a 110-year-old S&W 32-20, Marlin 30-30, and a Ruger GP100 .357 6" that fit that bill. I only have a .380 auto and an AR in 7.62-39 that fall under the Semi-auto category.

A Lever action .357 sounds nice. I love .357 Magnum.
grumpy_old_man likes this.
xitywampas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2018, 07:44   #13
Keeper of the records
 
Ben Dover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: high up in the Rockies
Posts: 501
Consider that if one needs a shotgun, and assuming that one is not planning on shooting up a school, there are several advantages to a good double barrel over a pump action.

Firstly, if you need more than two shots with a 12 bore, shame on you.
Secondly, a quality double with 18 inch barrels is several inches shorter than a pump action, and therefore superior in tight quarters such as a home or vehicle.
Thirdly, there is far less likelihood that doubles would be outlawed even by the most radical democrats.
The double is also more reliable since there are two separate lock mechanisms. In the event of parts breakage, you still have a single shot.

And perhaps the most important thing in a face to face confrontation is the psychological factor. Two 12 bore barrels pointing at you is unnerving, to say the least.
RJF likes this.
__________________
Mors ultima ratio
Ben Dover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2018, 12:41   #14
RJF
Full Member
 
RJF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Spotsylvania, VA
Posts: 5,544
Ben, all good points!

The OP still gives me occasional nightmares...
grumpy_old_man likes this.
RJF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 21:31   #15
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,286
Originally Posted by RJF View Post
Ben, all good points!

The OP still gives me occasional nightmares...
That's two of us. Way things are going in states like Kali and NY that day may be here in parts of the US sooner than we would like.

While I'm really partial to DH's suggestion about .45 Colt (its pretty much my all time favorite handgun cartridge) for use on the road I really think the .38/.357 route is going to be easier to supply from less well stocked gun stores/sporting goods stores. 1x .38 snub, 1x .357 maggie service revolver and 1x .357 maggie lever gun. Really simplifies logistics.

Grumpy
Ben Dover likes this.
grumpy_old_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 18:28   #16
Honor our Constitution !
 
Rockys Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: N.E. Alabama foothills
Posts: 4,066
Originally Posted by grumpy_old_man View Post
That's two of us. Way things are going in states like Kali and NY that day may be here in parts of the US sooner than we would like.

While I'm really partial to DH's suggestion about .45 Colt (its pretty much my all time favorite handgun cartridge) for use on the road I really think the .38/.357 route is going to be easier to supply from less well stocked gun stores/sporting goods stores. 1x .38 snub, 1x .357 maggie service revolver and 1x .357 maggie lever gun. Really simplifies logistics.

Grumpy
the very reason I have a .45 LC set made up of a C-45 Taurus Lightning pump rifle (14 rd. tube 26" barrel) and a Taylors (Uberti) El Patron competition Peacemaker.
and Rockys Mama has an 1873 Winchester short rifle and an El Patron Peacemaker both in .357/.38spl.
__________________
Well i'm just all broke up about that mans rights !!
Rockys Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2018, 07:29   #17
Keeper of the records
 
Ben Dover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: high up in the Rockies
Posts: 501
a seven round S&W 686 in .357 magnum would be a very practical and versatile sidearm if semi-autos were unavailable.
__________________
Mors ultima ratio
Ben Dover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2018, 09:58   #18
RJF
Full Member
 
RJF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Spotsylvania, VA
Posts: 5,544
Still get chills. Hopefully, nothing like that will happen in my lifetime. The heir to my "great" estate will get almost nothing but semi-autos, but he is well set with .45 LC in both revolver and lever.

Lots of places to hide things should it ever come to that...
RJF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2018, 10:07   #19
Keeper of the records
 
Ben Dover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: high up in the Rockies
Posts: 501
Should it come to that, the country will have turned into something like the E.U. i.e., A place unfit for human habitation.
__________________
Mors ultima ratio
Ben Dover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2018, 12:05   #20
Full Member
 
LoneWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: NJ
Posts: 99
I get a two for one with my Mossy 500. I have the shotgun barrel and switch to the rifled barrel and it's more or less a rifle. It's accurate out to 100 anyway.
__________________
Those who are brave are free.
LoneWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2018, 15:34   #21
RJF
Full Member
 
RJF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Spotsylvania, VA
Posts: 5,544
If push-comes-to-shove, I could take out the gas bushing in my Mini(s), replace with a bushing plug, and make them single-shot - much like they do in the UK. What a PITA!
RJF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2018, 06:29   #22
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,286
Originally Posted by RJF View Post
If push-comes-to-shove, I could take out the gas bushing in my Mini(s), replace with a bushing plug, and make them single-shot - much like they do in the UK. What a PITA!
What really makes me sick is that in the UK gun owners were not given that option. They had to turn in (or h̶i̶d̶e̶ "misplace") their "illegal" semi autos and later buy neutered versions that never had gas systems fitted. Sort of like ATF's "once a machine-gun always a machine-gun" BS only applied to semi autos.

BTW, Was recently reading the transcripts of the House hearings on the 1934 NFA, and it was really laughable that less than one year after Prohibition ended because it had created a nation of scofflaws, the gun grabbing ***holes claimed that people would turn in the guns that were being effectively outlawed (via oppressive taxation) because "most Americans are law-abiding"!!

Best quote though was this: "...if the law-abiding citizen does not register, and does not get into any kind of difficulty that would cause him to come to notice of the police, and there are not going to be snooping squads going around from house to house to see who does and does not possess arms; this is a practical piece of legislation..." (Mr Joseph B Keenan, Assistant AG under the tyrant Roosevelt). It should be noted that handguns were included in the NFA, just like machine-guns. Any of this "we won't go looking for things we outlaw" sound familiar? Or do people think the ATF just never got the memo not to go looking for otherwise law-abiding sorts who hadn't paid their NFA taxes? Sarcasm off, we all know that as soon as semi-autos are outlawed there very much will be efforts to find owners on a one-by-one basis for arrest and prosecution. The "we won't go looking for them" **** is just another lie to keep people from fighting for their rights.

Grumpy
grumpy_old_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2018, 07:00   #23
Keeper of the records
 
Ben Dover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: high up in the Rockies
Posts: 501
Every one of us has a vote.

But if you use it to vote for whomever your union, your boss, your pastor, your neighbor, your in-laws etc tells you to, your vote is wasted.


If we elect representatives who are willing to pass this kind of law, perhaps we deserve it.

And big corporations, big unions, rich people, etc do not elect representatives.. "We the people" one vote at a time, elect them.
__________________
Mors ultima ratio
Ben Dover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2018, 10:54   #24
RJF
Full Member
 
RJF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Spotsylvania, VA
Posts: 5,544
The end result will be a megaphone for home defense: shaming the invaders/attackers with nasty sentences. Of course, then, the homeowner will be sued for hearing loss...

And hurt feelings.
RJF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 05:19   #25
Honor our Constitution !
 
Rockys Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: N.E. Alabama foothills
Posts: 4,066
Originally Posted by RJF View Post
The end result will be a megaphone for home defense: shaming the invaders/attackers with nasty sentences. Of course, then, the homeowner will be sued for hearing loss...

And hurt feelings.

and dozens of dog bites in my case
Marlin 45 carbine and RJF like this.
__________________
Well i'm just all broke up about that mans rights !!
Rockys Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ejector deforming case rim Breezl Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 0 12-01-2014 04:22
wts: XMRE 1300XT - MILITARY MRE GRADE (12 PACK CASE) $115.99 [email protected] Cope's Distributing Inc. 0 11-04-2014 12:51
New Mini-30 Tactical HATES steel case ammo!! Locutus_of_Borg Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 154 11-13-2013 23:31
$26.97 for a DC Rifle Case from Galati Gear - Choose from 4 different sizes: 30", 38" GEARHOG GEARHOG 0 01-04-2012 00:00
.204 in the Mini frdsrul Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 2 07-29-2004 07:16


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:51.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All information is copyright by Perfectunion.com unless already under copyright.