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Old 11-22-2015, 20:24   #26
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I know it's impolite to answer a question with a question, but are either of the cartridges you mention at least .30 Caliber? Will the .25-06 or .257 Mag suffice, yes. Folks that like the 7 mm -08 or 7 mm Rem Mag will argue that they suffice or maybe even outperform. Folks like me that consider a .30 caliber hole to be min spec, we'd use .308 Win, 30-06, 300 Win Mag. But if we took a poll of the majority of hunters, the 30-30,.308 Win or 30-06 would be the most likely to win the whats in your hands on opening day question. The mystery of the .25-06 or .257 Mag is no greater than that of the .444 Marlin, and their are probably about as many folks that have used or now use any of the three. The popularity of the .30 caliber offerings have made all 3 more antique than arcane. JMHO.
But across North America I'd be willing to venture that more game animals with hooves are harvested with .30 caliber and above than below .30 caliber. As long as there are those that like shooting outside of the main stream there will be many niche calibers that come and go, the mainstream of shooters will follow the Armed Services lead and surplus calibers will remain popular much longer than specialized/niche calibers. Once again JMHO.
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Old 11-24-2015, 00:14   #27
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I love my 30-30, and my dad's 30.06, but I will have to testify on that 7mm Mag. Even though it is not a .30 cal round, it does its fair share of damage. I have one in a Browning A-Bolt Medallion, that I seldom use. But When I do, no dear I shot ever walked a step further. I have had a few of my deer kills where that little bullet ricochet inside the rib cage many times before exiting. Those bullets just rip stuff apart, and the power that is behind that bullet is something else, it may not be a .30 but it dam near acts like one
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Old 11-24-2015, 14:57   #28
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The 7MM Remington was developed for Elk hunting by Les Bowman a Wyoming Guide and Outfitter. It was loaded with a 175 grs. bullet and a fast twist. As in every caliber the recoil sensitive shooters had to reduce the bullet weights down to 140 grs. This made the 7MM Remington nothing more than a "loued" .270 Winchester.
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Old 11-24-2015, 15:19   #29
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The 7 mm Rem Mag has the same problem as the 300 Win Mag, they both terrorize barrel throats. At 400 Yards there isn't enough of a terminal difference performance wise on game with hooves to negate the use of either the 7 mm-08 or the .308 Win. Either of which will have a much higher round count between barrel changes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7mm-08_Remington
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Old 11-24-2015, 15:29   #30
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I don't think we see an epidemic of barrels burned out in the .300 Win Mag. That caliber by the way is and was a much used by the Military. The hunting rifles are used much more in the Rocky Mtns and Alaska than any place else in the country.
The .30 caliber is more of a "Niche" caliber in these environs. Calibers above and below .308 are more popular. The old days of using Milsurp .30 Cals has passed long ago.
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Old 11-24-2015, 16:01   #31
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This year it's a Winchester model 88 in 308. It's a lever gun so it works well in the woods. It's a 308 so it'll reach out for those longer shots.
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Old 11-24-2015, 16:33   #32
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Durango, as a Seasonal Hunter the odds of your rifle reaching 2.5K rounds in a lifetime are low. As a Military professional tasked with 100 Rounds a day, everyday, barrel changes are part of the culture. (Target shooters have the same concern) The smaller the neck, the greater the powder, the faster the throat erodes. The only thing you can do to erode the barrel quicker is shoot it faster (Make it hotter). But you need not take my word for it, Link: exterior ballistics

Didn't we already settle how small a percentage of North Americas Hunters are in Alaska and the Rocky Mountain States? Guess you passed on the top ten, and associated statistics. The Great Lake States run ten to one with the fly-over country my Old Friend.

As to the demise of the 7.62, perhaps you need to recheck the ammunition sales. I must admit that you are one of the few that I shall grant a get out of jail free pass to, but this time you need to use that card. Perhaps you should goggle the most popular caliber in North America. Just because you have a Romanticist view of "Western Culture" (Ala Zane Grey and Louis L' Amour) it is time that you come to the realization that there are far more hunters East of the Mississippi, and along the Western Coast, then game animals or hunters in the fly-over states. Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, but when it comes to meat in the freezer, critters per square foot in the empty lands got thier moniker by being empty lands. More than just My Humble Opinion.
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Old 11-24-2015, 17:46   #33
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Sorry I missed this one with the turning of the page.

Originally Posted by Durango Ranger View Post
There is a big difference in arms carried by Guides and their clients. The Guide who lives off the "Grid" most of the year more often prefer large bore lever guns. The lever guns are chosen more for the flat receivers than anything else. They ride comfortable under your leg for those long hours in the saddle. They also pack securely on pack horses.
The Client is the first responsibility of the Guide at close range. The clients may choose what ever arm they prefer. You do not protect hunters 400 yds.away.
You are absolutely correct, "You do not protect hunters 400 yds.away.", the last 50 yards of the hunt are the responsibility of the Guide. Thus the preference to large bore "Charge Stopping Calibers". Client's can have any opinion they pay for, Guides must face the realities that Client's don't comprehend.

In the Military, Client's can be as much as 2000 Yards away, But as the guide you shall be tasked with the responsibility to protect the "Hunters" at that distance.

But I can't recall a single event that a Client was mauled by a hoofed animal at range while supported by a Guide in the field!

While I fully understand your preoccupation with Horse borne travel, there are far many more Guides that travel on waterborne pathways. We do need to expand upon the methods that you consider as normal operations Durango. Not to mention your your predilection to exclude "MULES" as the perfect pack animal, nor your exclusion of said animal as the primary means of travel in the lower 48.

But, I seriously doubt that any viewers have a clue as to the differences that We are expounding upon. So I tip my cap to you Sir, but I shall not bend a knee to your preferences. As I have lead many more than one into the "Land of Folks fear no evil" and brought them HOME against all odds. Against MAN & BEAST I have never failed at the task that was ordained upon me. Do you have an equivalent record of accomplishments?
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Old 11-25-2015, 13:00   #34
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Ruger 77 .280 Rem and Marlin 336 30-30
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Old 11-27-2015, 00:42   #35
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6.8mm or .270 Win. Don't need a .30 cal.
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Old 11-27-2015, 06:47   #36
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Yes, the .30 caliber bullet sales are high. And yes Eastern folks shoot many of them. That is because there are more folks in the East shooting targets on controlled ranges. I don't know what Western Authors have to do with the fact that the Rockies and Alaska offer far more hunting than the East. Hunters visit these states from all over the World. The Hunting dollars maintain many communities in the West and Alaska.
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Old 11-27-2015, 17:50   #37
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MG74 without a doubt, especially if you have more than one tag.

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Old 11-28-2015, 08:17   #38
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Originally Posted by Durango Ranger View Post
I don't know what Western Authors have to do with the fact that the Rockies and Alaska offer far more hunting than the East.

Hunters visit these states from all over the World. The Hunting dollars maintain many communities in the West and Alaska.
Durango, the shear disparity of Hunting Licenses alone is testament that there is far more hunting going on in just the Great Lakes Area than in the Rockies and Alaska combined. So it is even more ludicrous to compare the area to the entire "East".

Yes hunters visit Alaska and the entire Rocky Mountain Chain, but that is not due to (higher game density) better hunting, it is as a diversification (hunting game that isn't resident) of thier local hunting.

Since the Title of this thread is "Deer Rifle" I'll stick with the .30 Calibers as harvesting the most Deer annually.
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Old 12-02-2015, 13:26   #39
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Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet View Post
Haven't meet many sporting the .257 Mag outside the lower 48. Most Yukon Guides prefer the Old .444 Marlin or 45-70 in the Land of the Midnight Sun. But every geographical area has it's particularities. Folks East of the Mississippi used to boast about the .348 Win when I grew up. The 45-75 has much more credibility (Teddy Roosevelt etc) above the 49th parallel than the .257 Mag has earned since it's inception, but in the small picture of US Open sky hunting I can understand why stagnant Folks revere such outdated technology. There are much better Modern Rifles and Calibers for Western Big Sky Game, but there is still a place for tradition, no matter how small the genre. JMHO.
Most folks,when they see the price level of Weatherby Rifles and Ammo , walk away...especially when your paying almost 5.00 a pop when siteing in a Weatherby...I like the ballastics, and am willing to pay for it..I like them so well, that I purchased a new Merkel in 257 Weatherby...
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Old 12-02-2015, 14:38   #40
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Best part about this Country, it's your money and you can spend it on what you like. Never spent allot of time piddling with Weatherby Rifles or Chamberings, but if that's what floats your boat I'm Happy for you snakeoil.

I've just spent so much time with a .308 Winchester that I haven't found a situation Harvesting Deer, that the 7.62 x 51 mm/ .308 Win. couldn't handle. When it comes to Deer, most times the capabilities of the .308 Win. isn't needed.

Back in the times when I grew up Ya'll would get more than a tongue lashing for using a High Cost Shotgun Shell on critter's that could be harvested with a .22 short (duck swimming on the Mississippi) cause Money was precious. But if you enjoy lighting a 2 bit cigar with a hundred dollar bill, who am I to say Ya'll are wrong?

Just might be a couple more folks that trend towards a little frugality goes a long way, but it's Ya'll's cash and Ya'll's enjoyment, so Ya'll can part with it as soon as Ya'll wish.
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Old 12-03-2015, 23:31   #41
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Damn Smokey, If you had a dollar for every time you say "Y'all", you could own an ammunition company.
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Old 12-04-2015, 13:23   #42
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AJS: I do have money to spend on rifles,the kind I want! I also can read an am a very good shot,so I demand good equipment.Read Weatheby ballastics,and you will see why Roy Weatherby developed his high powered cartridges....."nothing shoots faster are harder"....even The "Duke " was a Weatherby guy!....I have shot 308's..and they are good in a battle (war) situation,better than a 223 in my opinion...but for shear hunting situations, ballastics don't lie...Weatherby is the best. How many times will you shoot a rifle in a hunting senario?1-7 ? so it cost me 35.00....Guess what,its much cheaper than my huntng dues,which are $3000.00 per year, and all my equipment cost in excess of 50,000 bucks......so a 5.00 bullet is cheap...Not bragging,but facts....Times have changed from the days I was told to take 5 22 bullets and go kill 5 squirrels....are 6 shells and kill 4 ducks....I am fortunate that I didn't have to pay for college or anything else in life,so I can afford my hobbies....I like a rifle that will kill a white tail @ 100-600 yds...and Weatherby fits my bill...
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Old 12-04-2015, 16:26   #43
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While I limit my hunting of unarmed game to 300 Yards, I can assure you that the .308 Win. is quite capable of taking white tail class quarry beyond 1000 Yards. It's Your Money, spend it however you like. (Ya'll-less just for Durango)
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Old 12-05-2015, 20:41   #44
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Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet View Post
While I limit my hunting of unarmed game to 300 Yards, I can assure you that the .308 Win. is quite capable of taking white tail class quarry beyond 1000 Yards. It's Your Money, spend it however you like. (Ya'll-less just for Durango)
...you would take a shot @ 1000yds with a 308?....at unarmed game?...LOL!
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Old 12-05-2015, 20:52   #45
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What's the ROE's, was I hot, and what directive was I passed.
My record is impeccable snakeoil.
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Old 12-06-2015, 00:38   #46
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I've shot more deer with both a 12 gauge (#1 buck) and an old bone stock SKS than any other gun I've owned.
that said.......
anyone that's been in my area (maybe even stationed at Ft.McClellan Al.) knows that if you get a 100 yd shot, that's pretty long and if you'll wait a few minutes another deer will likely pass within 50 yds.

I've never needed MOA accuracy for hunting.......shotgun for ground hunting , or anything that will hit a pie plate at 100 yds for the treestand.
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Old 12-06-2015, 05:37   #47
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Originally Posted by Rockys Pop View Post
I've shot more deer with both a 12 gauge (#1 buck) and an old bone stock SKS than any other gun I've owned.
that said.......
anyone that's been in my area (maybe even stationed at Ft.McClellan Al.) knows that if you get a 100 yd shot, that's pretty long and if you'll wait a few minutes another deer will likely pass within 50 yds.

I've never needed MOA accuracy for hunting.......shotgun for ground hunting , or anything that will hit a pie plate at 100 yds for the treestand.
Got to use what works best for you/your area.
While I'm in what most folks would consider "woods & swamp" country (northern Michigan), here's what I'm actually seeing (farm land).

FYI the near treeline is 175yd out, and it's 400yd out to the far tree line.
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Old 12-06-2015, 19:52   #48
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That treeline on the very far, far right corner, it appears to be a bit further than 400 Yards to me. But I have been known to overestimate in my career. (Don't think I'm in error this time?)
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Old 12-07-2015, 02:20   #49
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The "gray" line? Much further.
The "green" line, 400 (though my buddy claims it's 440 to the corner)
You can also see the ridge of grass (but not the fence) that marks the east boundary of that field/property, running on a diagonal.
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Old 12-08-2015, 19:58   #50
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How many yards are these fields...?
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