Is 1000 Ft Lbs of energy really needed? - Shooting Sports Forum


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Old 08-15-2015, 19:35   #1
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Question Is 1000 Ft Lbs of energy really needed?

I was going to put this in the Hunting Section, but I'm not sure where this is going to end up.

Many States that allow Rifle Hunting have a minimum caliber and a restriction of 1000 Ft Lbs of energy.

I've heard many folks state that they have taken Game Animals with Calibers and At Distances that flaunt both of these restrictions. So is there Really any Purpose for a State to have these requirements?
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Old 08-16-2015, 04:28   #2
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I think there is only because of the dummies out there that don't have a clue.
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Old 08-16-2015, 08:43   #3
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Old 08-18-2015, 18:01   #4
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Wink Here's what I think !

Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet View Post
I was going to put this in the Hunting Section, but I'm not sure where this is going to end up.

Many States that allow Rifle Hunting have a minimum caliber and a restriction of 1000 Ft Lbs of energy.

I've heard many folks state that they have taken Game Animals with Calibers and At Distances that flaunt both of these restrictions. So is there Really any Purpose for a State to have these requirements?
In Nebraska it is at least 1000 ft lbs. at 100 yards , so some heavier 223 rounds such as 64 grain Winchesters will work , as it's all about shot placement anyway !

I favor going to a 243 100 grain , which is what my grandson will be shooting instead of the 223 .

I got my any sex Wahoo zone Nebraska tag in hand as does my son and grandson !
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Old 08-19-2015, 18:52   #5
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What your asking is what is the minimum amount of something to HUMANELY dispatch the critter. Of course we should include archery to fully encompass the discussion. We can say that an arrow strikes at far less energy than a bullet and we instinctively say well it's designed to slice you nimrod Chill!
Wait a minute now..so if the archer does not practice good hunting skills such as, know your limitations, know your equipment, know your prey, know your hunting ground, become a proficient archer. I have seen archers headed back to their rigs/camp swinging an arrow in their hand cutting grass as they walk. So I ask them, is that a hunting arrow? because you just dulled the $hit out of your broad head their sport.
A rifle is no different except it takes a lot less hunting skill for the average dude to walk out and "hunt" and it shows in the people you meet. Like I stated in a different thread off topic, I can drop a deer in his tracks with a .22 lr placed in the eye at 25 yards all day long. What matters here is the hunter either they are ethical or not. The longest shot I ever took was an antelope buck at 440 long paces surrounded by does who circled him in an impressive display of defense. So I had his head and about 10" of his neck. Seated position .270 130 grain sighted in for 300 with a 4x Leupold. He dropped with a broken neck. Shot a big bull at 330 long paces same gun, hand loaded Nosler Partition 150 grains blew his heart up, dislocated his shoulder, and drove his feet 6" into frozen grass ground. A lot of guys consider the .270 too small for elk.
Like you said some states have energy specs, some have caliber restrictions. The 5.56 bullets available if used ETHICALLY at no more than 150 yds in my opinion is fine for medium game like deer. I cannot use it as Washington state minimum .24 caliber. YET they allow hunting with pistol!!! So now what because that is way less than 1000 lbs of kinetic energy potentially as it is caliber restricted as well. And they are allowed for deer as well. It is implied by all of these confusing parameters that it is up to us to be ethical and responsible hunters. I want to kill it with minimal disruption to the animal and I can tell you from experience a well placed broadhead can pass literally unnoticed by the target and they wobble over.
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Old 08-19-2015, 19:22   #6
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You have opened many doors chill1955. Before hunting was legislated there was no restrictions on where, when, how, and what with to Harvest Game.
Knife
Spear
Bow
Handgun
Shotgun
Rifle
Yet Today we have restrictions on all of them. Instead of it being Implied that it is up to us to be ethical and responsible hunters, I do believe that certain Libertarian Groups have convinced State Legislators that rules and requirements are needed because Hunters can't be relied upon to be ethical and responsible.

Almost anything can be used to Kill an animal if your only requirement is to eat, where do We draw the line on what is HUMANE?

If you hunt the Big 5 in Africa they have some really strict Guidelines on Major Power Rifle Calibers, yet Bow Hunters, Folks with Spears, Knives, and even their BARE HANDS have taken all of the Big 5. (Tribal African Rituals of the Passage to Manhood)

When does the time come when Firearms Hunter's (or any other variation of Hunter) have to prove their Marksmanship (Lethality) abilities, instead of the Potential of Weapon they have chosen to Hunt with?
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Old 08-23-2015, 11:53   #7
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Ive killed a few deer with my mini-14 using handloaded 65gr Gamekings. Not a combination I would use everywhere I hunt but it works just fine if you arent looking to make a 2-300yrd shot. Over a food plot where your longest shot is no more than 100yrds, certain corner of the field where a long shot isnt an option. Thats when I use it. Being a good shot and knowing what your equipment is capable of helps. I also hunt with a .243/100gr bullet, .270/130-150gr bullets, 30-06/150-165gr bullets, and I also killed a doe once with my Russian M-44 and S&B factory ammunition loaded with a 174gr Matchking. I shot her at over 200yrds and that bullet did some serious damage. Dropped like a sack of taters. I know its a match bullet and not a hunting bullet but it had no problems getting the job done.
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Old 08-23-2015, 14:59   #8
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If I'm following this correctly? Deer with Mini-14 .233 at no more than 100 Yards, which is at the end of the 1000 ft lbs energy line, and your other Kills have had more than 1000 ft lbs of energy at the other respective distances. So are you a proponent of the 1000 ft lbs requirement or is that just the way it worked out while you where hunting qwman?
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Old 08-23-2015, 20:37   #9
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What Im sayin is I would hunt a spot where long range shots are not required with my mini-14 up too 150yrds max. If I were hunting a bean field or powerline for example I would carry something more adequate. Shooting over a food plot where a 100yrd shot is max like I said in the other post was just an example.
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:12   #10
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Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet View Post
You have opened many doors chill1955. Before hunting was legislated there was no restrictions on where, when, how, and what with to Harvest Game.
Knife
Spear
Bow
Handgun
Shotgun
Rifle
Yet Today we have restrictions on all of them. Instead of it being Implied that it is up to us to be ethical and responsible hunters, I do believe that certain Libertarian Groups have convinced State Legislators that rules and requirements are needed because Hunters can't be relied upon to be ethical and responsible.

Almost anything can be used to Kill an animal if your only requirement is to eat, where do We draw the line on what is HUMANE?

If you hunt the Big 5 in Africa they have some really strict Guidelines on Major Power Rifle Calibers, yet Bow Hunters, Folks with Spears, Knives, and even their BARE HANDS have taken all of the Big 5. (Tribal African Rituals of the Passage to Manhood)

When does the time come when Firearms Hunter's (or any other variation of Hunter) have to prove their Marksmanship (Lethality) abilities, instead of the Potential of Weapon they have chosen to Hunt with?
I agree, I think this legislation came about in order to ensure that the lowest common denominator among hunters did the right thing.

Also, I like the idea of a hunter having to prove an ability rather than legislate specs, but that creates the conundrum of how do we allow others to be trained in hunting as newcomers would, due to inexperience, be unable to prove their ability.
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Old 08-26-2015, 21:00   #11
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Originally Posted by qwman68 View Post
Sounds like it could lead to more government intrusion to me. So you want people to prove they can shoot before they can hunt? To whom would they have to prove that to? A government lackie? Usually kids getting started hunting have to prove to their parents they can do it before they go hunting and thats the way it should be. Screw getting the f'kn government involved. Thats stupid.
It would be stupid if the parents that they were proving it to could also prove that they were capable of shooting. But one failure determining the outcome of a future generation of failures is not what we are looking for qwman68. So a standardized shooting test would give all the past failures grading future failures a chance to break the unending chain of lost wounded game dying fruitlessly in the wilderness. JMHO.
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Old 08-27-2015, 12:12   #12
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Originally Posted by A/J/S/USNRet View Post
It would be stupid if the parents that they were proving it to could also prove that they were capable of shooting. But one failure determining the outcome of a future generation of failures is not what we are looking for qwman68. So a standardized shooting test would give all the past failures grading future failures a chance to break the unending chain of lost wounded game dying fruitlessly in the wilderness. JMHO.
I dont know about where you are but around here people were raised with a scoped rifle in their home and I havent seen too many parents that couldnt shoot or teach their kid to shoot. My son was shooting less than 2" groups @100yrds with his .243 when he was 11yrs old. My friends daughter is 16yrs old and she has killed deer with her dad's 7mm Mag. She didnt like the 7-08.

Still dont think we need a government stooge getting involved with parents teaching their kid to shoot. I like to think if a parent is willing to take on the task of teaching a child to shoot they would be up to the task.

Who gives a sh!t if they cant shoot 1000yrds or break down an AR. Teach kids the basics and let them decide how much they want to learn based on their interest in shooting.
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Old 08-27-2015, 12:22   #13
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Lets see if I can put this another way. When Hunters arrive at a Guided Hunting Facility (Camp), do they have to prove that they have attained a level of proficiency with their firearm to the Guide? (ie shoot a water jug at 50 yards etc) Even if it's under the guise of ensuring the rifles zero hasn't changed?
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Old 08-27-2015, 12:37   #14
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I do that before hunting season. Make sure my rifle is still zeroed. I was under the impression that the reason for shooting upon arriving at the camp was for the same reason, to insure the rifle was still zeroed after traveling across the planet. If you are stupid enough to go hunt Africa with very little hunting skills you are an idiot. Maybe those people could take your test!
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Old 08-27-2015, 12:47   #15
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What I'm getting at is that all the Regulations are placed on the weapon, as if the weapon was in control. Even with all the weapons based regulations wounded game expiring in the field unharvested hasn't declined. So maybe a quick can you hit a water jug at 50 yards test before you got into the lottery etc for a license would be More Humane?

After all, shot placement is the Number One Factor in Humane Hunting.
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Old 08-31-2015, 14:22   #16
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Hard evidence and bleached bones, I am not in your area, but when was the last time you wandered over a pile of bones with the tell tale markings? In nature the predators only take the Young, Sick, or aged.
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