Building a Lee Enfield No 4 Mk1 Scout Rifle - Shooting Sports Forum


Like Tree80Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-06-2020, 20:06   #1
Full Member
 
daddyusmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 161
Building a Lee Enfield No 4 Mk1 Scout Rifle

I have always thought the Scout Rifle concept was an interesting, and versatile one. Some rifles that have always caught my eye are the "tanker" Garands, and the M1A Scout Squad. They just have a real cool look that I thought was handy, and could lend them to the scout rifle concept. I wanted to stay with a bolt gun though, and the Lee Enfield has always fascinated me by the cock on close design, and 10 round magazine. I decided to make a "tanker" Lee Enfield version of a Scout Rifle.

I like the design, and the look of the No4 Mk 1 more than any other, so that had to be the one. Also, I wanted it to look very close to a normal issue rifle when I got done, just with the enhancements to suit me that I wanted. That meant I was going to need a complete rifle to start with. I couldn't just grab up any old bubbaed up sporter. I needed all the top wood, everything. Well, I found one. I found one so nice I started second guessing if I wanted to do this, but I'm not a collector. Never have been, never will be. I care zero about dollar value, only my enjoyment of what I buy. I got the gun, and I started in. BTW, the receiver had previously been drilled and tapped for a scope mount, but the mount was not on it, and one screw was broke off in a hole...

I took it apart, and off to the gunsmith she went. A week later, and the 25" barrel is now 18" with an 11 degree target crown. The original front sight has been moved back with about 1.75" or barrel poking out in front of it just as in the original. However, it doesn't have the little tabs for mounting a bayonet anymore... They don't make the Clifton mounts for the Lee Enfield anymore, so he took some bar stock and turned me down a custom mount to fit the barrel. It's pressed on, then two set screws hold it in place as he dimpled the barrel. On top of that is a section of picatinny rail I gave him to work with.

The rear sight will be in the way of the scope as it will sit pretty low, so I had him remove the long range (600M) peep. I can't see very far to shoot with irons anyhow. I'll leave the 300M peep pointed back, (flat) to use the scope, then flip it up should I have to remove the scope and use the iron sights. As it sits now, I'm starting in on the wood work modifying the stock to shorten it so that it maintains the classic looks, but in a shorter package. The top wood has the front piece shortened, the rear piece a hole cut for the mount to stick up through. The fore end has been shortened and reshaped (roughly) to fit the black metal end cap. I'm replacing the butt stock with one from Boyd's as I want more of a pistol grip style, but I'm going to attempt to affix the brass butt plate, and original sling swivel to it. Then everything will be refinished to match. There's still a lot of wood work to do to get the shape the way I want it, but the idea is there... My first try at reshaping a stock too, so I'm trying not to screw it up, and have to go shopping for another stock... Scope is the 2.5 Leupold, and a set of low QD Leupold rings, and a pair of scope caps are on the way. Then I'll have to find a sling.



daddyusmaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2020, 04:37   #2
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Silver Springs NV
Posts: 2,269
Well you ruined a piece of history but to each their own, whatever floats your boat.
__________________
Nevada, The last free place in this country.
Jeff F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2020, 05:27   #3
Full Member
 
daddyusmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 161
Originally Posted by Jeff F View Post
Well you ruined a piece of history but to each their own, whatever floats your boat.
I kinda figured someone was gonna jump in with some kind, tolerant, supportive words like this... May I ask, what history was ruined?

I didn't steal this from a museum... Are you going to forget about the sacrifices of British, and Canadian forces in WWII now because I'm doing this? If that ever happens it will be because of the piss poor state of the modern education system there falling apart just like it is here in the States, not because I modified a rifle.

Some guy who never used it, probably never even looked at it because it just sat in his gun safe, sold it to me at a gun show...

Just because there is some small group of people out there who collect certain items, doesn't mean that every single item on the planet of that type is a valuable commodity. There are only so many collectors... Those collectors do so for their own gratification, not for public education, so history isn't being saved... at least not for the public. In fact, the fewer items for them to collect, the more they are worth. It could be said that I helped out the collectors. I made theirs worth more, at least to each other, who are the only people who should really care.

I believe in history, and all, but there were millions of these made. Why were they made? They were made to preserve freedom. Nothing wrong with taking that freedom, and using it to make this rifle into the gun I want it to be. Besides, people taking old surplus military weapons, and re-purposing them for their own use has been done all through the history of firearms... That in itself is a historically accurate thing, at least in America, and Europe.

I'll be taking this historical firearm out of the back of the safe, and back into the woods... to be used, rather than neglected, and forgotten.
daddyusmaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 02-07-2020, 06:23   #4
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Silver Springs NV
Posts: 2,269
Well I have 13 Enfields of various flavors and none are safe queens. My elk rifle is a No4 Mk2. like I said whatever floats your boat.
__________________
Nevada, The last free place in this country.
Jeff F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2020, 08:32   #5
Full Member
 
51colt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Joaquin valley Ca
Posts: 354
303 British?
__________________
Be vewy vewy quiet I'm hunting wabbits! Hahahah
51colt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2020, 08:54   #6
Full Member
 
daddyusmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 161
Originally Posted by 51colt View Post
303 British?
Yes.
2rangers likes this.
daddyusmaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2020, 12:16   #7
Honor our Constitution !
 
Rockys Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: N.E. Alabama foothills
Posts: 4,062
that "piece of history" was made in the millions and yours is in no way "ruined".......the value is definitely higher now that it's customized.

I used to sporterize and sell both #4mk.1's & #1mk3's when I was a working gunsmith.

i've always had a soft spot for the Lee designed rifles, my favorite being the Ishapor (India) #1mk.3 tanker carbine in .308.

the .303 British will give ballistics slightly better than the .30/40 US Krag but a shade short of the .30/06.

Nice Rifle BTW........love the looks & the concept !!
__________________
Well i'm just all broke up about that mans rights !!
Rockys Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2020, 20:47   #8
Full Member
 
daddyusmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 161
Did the sanding, and two coats of stain today, but not sure I'm gonna come out with a perfect match. The 80+ year old Canadian front wood, and the bran new Boyd's butt stock isn't made of the same stuff... Probably close enough for me normally, but I really wanted this to be nice, so I may look for someone who does refinishing of furniture look at it. My woodworking skills are make stuff strong, not pretty.
daddyusmaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2020, 21:23   #9
Full Member
 
51colt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Joaquin valley Ca
Posts: 354
I am a retired flooring installer I had to color match wood moldings all the time. Buy some Rit dye scarlet red, dark brown, and a mustard yellow color. with these three colors, you can make any color stain. Mix the dye with Isopropyl alcohol. Your stock is a dark reddish-brown so start with the brown and red then tone with yellow. Practice on a scrap piece of wood. Just apply in thin coats it will dry really fast you can re-apply every few minutes you will be able to get the stain as dark as you want. You might want to let the oil-based stain to dry well then sand it off before restaining.

51
__________________
Be vewy vewy quiet I'm hunting wabbits! Hahahah
51colt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2020, 21:28   #10
Honor our Constitution !
 
Rockys Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: N.E. Alabama foothills
Posts: 4,062
it all looks like Sycamore wood but the original is unfinished, the new has either a tung oil or linseed oil gloss finish

once you've touched up the nose to the color you like, give it (just the original wood) 2 coats of True Oil and it should look great
__________________
Well i'm just all broke up about that mans rights !!
Rockys Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2020, 21:48   #11
Full Member
 
daddyusmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 161
Originally Posted by 51colt View Post
I am a retired flooring installer I had to color match wood moldings all the time. Buy some Rit dye scarlet red, dark brown, and a mustard yellow color. with these three colors, you can make any color stain. Mix the dye with Isopropyl alcohol. Your stock is a dark reddish-brown so start with the brown and red then tone with yellow. Practice on a scrap piece of wood. Just apply in thin coats it will dry really fast you can re-apply every few minutes you will be able to get the stain as dark as you want. You might want to let the oil-based stain to dry well then sand it off before restaining.

51
Any special way to mix up this, or just however it says on the package? Also are you talking about the brown and red together, or coats of each then the yellow? I have two pieces of wood from the rifle to practice on where I shortened it. The remainder of the bottom wood, and front top piece. My sanding did not remove 100% of the original stain, just the surface dings. The front portion that was re-shaped,however, was down to bare wood. It's taking the color differently.
daddyusmaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2020, 05:51   #12
Full Member
 
51colt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Joaquin valley Ca
Posts: 354
Rit dye is for dyeing cloth you can buy it at Walmart. I like the powdered dye. Put about eight oz of alcohol in a cup and start adding the dye you need to just play with it. Start with the brown if gets too dark add more alcohol or yellow dye. I think you are going to come close with red and brown dye. Just add a little dye at a time and remember this type of stain dries fast it may take four or five coats to get the color dark enough. Practice with a scrap pine will be fine. With this type of stain, you make different types of wood the same color it's just a matter of how many coats and how it is tinted. when you are happy with scrap wood try it out on your scrap stock parts. Before staining, I like to polish the wood with steel wool after sanding I start with #000 and finish up with #0000. To get an idea of what the stain will look like with a finish you can use a rag dampened with water. Only do this with scraps water will raise the grain. As far as finish BLO is the easiest applied with your fingers and rubbed in with your palms. But BLO is not waterproof. Minwax Wipe-on poly is pretty easy to use. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Minwax-Wipe...l-oz/999914303 Just apply in thin coats with a rag. After a few coats color sand with worn-out fine sandpaper in between coats. practice doing a complete Finnish on scrap wood to get the hang of it then do your stock. hope this helps.

51
__________________
Be vewy vewy quiet I'm hunting wabbits! Hahahah
51colt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 15:47   #13
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Pensacola, Fl.
Posts: 6
Scout

First, I want to give homage to the person I first heard of the Scout rifle from: Col. Cooper. His idea was to be used in a safari setting when a very large, enraged beast suddenly charged in on a rampage. He wanted a short rifle of a large caliber, that would stop the charge, with follow up shots, if necessary. IIRC, he preferred a bolt action (personal preference? plenty of accurate semis) and iron sights. He intended for the rifle to be a close-in weapon and quick to get onto action, hence the shortness. After saying all that, I got a Scout MiA that I used for a "Scout". I didn't like it at all and it reminded me of why: the Scout rifle is a specific, single-use weapon, for a specific purpose. I will never be on a safari and in my 61 years, I've never been on the occasion to be charged by a very large beast on a rampage, intending to kill me, here in the USA. I sold the "Scout" and bought a nice full-sized, near match grade M1A, with iron sights. I also have a Stevens Mod.12 in 30-06, with a long-range scope. I shoot match grade light loads in both. YMMV
Marlin 45 carbine likes this.
GeneC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 22:02   #14
Full Member
 
daddyusmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 161
Originally Posted by GeneC View Post
First, I want to give homage to the person I first heard of the Scout rifle from: Col. Cooper. His idea was to be used in a safari setting when a very large, enraged beast suddenly charged in on a rampage. He wanted a short rifle of a large caliber, that would stop the charge, with follow up shots, if necessary. IIRC, he preferred a bolt action (personal preference? plenty of accurate semis) and iron sights. He intended for the rifle to be a close-in weapon and quick to get onto action, hence the shortness. After saying all that, I got a Scout MiA that I used for a "Scout". I didn't like it at all and it reminded me of why: the Scout rifle is a specific, single-use weapon, for a specific purpose. I will never be on a safari and in my 61 years, I've never been on the occasion to be charged by a very large beast on a rampage, intending to kill me, here in the USA. I sold the "Scout" and bought a nice full-sized, near match grade M1A, with iron sights. I also have a Stevens Mod.12 in 30-06, with a long-range scope. I shoot match grade light loads in both. YMMV

Pardon my French but, If you don't like scout rifles, what the hell are you doing commenting on someone else building one for?

Why not just go to some other thread?

Or do you get a kick out of bashing other people's ideas because they're different that yours?

Thanks for sharing, by the way...
daddyusmaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 23:45   #15
Honor our Constitution !
 
Rockys Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: N.E. Alabama foothills
Posts: 4,062
Originally Posted by daddyusmaximus View Post
Pardon my French but, If you don't like scout rifles, what the hell are you doing commenting on someone else building one for?

Why not just go to some other thread?

Or do you get a kick out of bashing other people's ideas because they're different that yours?

Thanks for sharing, by the way...



was wondering that myself.

still wanting that Ishapor Jungle or preferably Tankers carbine in .308.
or an Aussie .303 Jungle carbine would be just as nice.......
__________________
Well i'm just all broke up about that mans rights !!
Rockys Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 04:25   #16
Full Member
 
daddyusmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 161
For those of you wondering about progress being made, there isn't any. Not by me. Furnace died at the VFW (I'm Commander, it's winter, we got fish fry season, and barstool golf...) and one of my good friends from college died as well. (stood up for me at my wedding) Been busy, so I farmed off the re-finishing to a local lady known for her ability to do magic with wood. Also decided to have the gunsmith lower the scope mount down just a tad. Sling came in yesterday. Not a traditional scout type ching-sling, but an original WWII Lee Enfield sling. Should have it all together in a week or so.
daddyusmaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 04:29   #17
Full Member
 
daddyusmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 161
By the way, I built our barstool golf hole in keeping with a military theme, us being not a normal bar, but a veterans center...






However, not wanting to waste an M38A1 front clip, I used one from a CJ-5.
daddyusmaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 09:14   #18
Full Member
 
Baltimoreed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: NC
Posts: 237
In the back of my mind is a 1903 Springfield build using an 18 inch bbl. NOT cut by me but a bubba cut job. I haven’t found a suitable donor rifle yet though. Thought that I had found one in Alaska but the guy wanted too much and then 65.00 shipping. Nah. I’ll keep looking. But I like the op’s build, looks cool with the short bbl. like your golf course too. Never messed with golf but played putt putt some. BTW, I built my scout on a sporter Krag, guess I ruined an even older piece of history. My bad. But in my defense I have remilitarized two bubbaized 1903’s.
Baltimoreed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 10:10   #19
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: out in the country..1,327 meters from nearest neighbor
Posts: 2,598
I had a BSA made no.4 mk.1 that developed a crack in the barrel from stock "Up" pressure about 3" or so from the muzzle. I turned into a no.5 mk.1 complete with everything, and it shoots very well. Did I ruin a really nice BSA rifle, yes. But I have several more to have fun with.
__________________
Rangers lead the way-All the way.
2005 series 1 co-champion-scope class- in the brotherhood of true marksmen.
2005 series 2, modded barrel class champion-
MOA club member
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2rangers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 14:23   #20
Full Member
 
daddyusmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 161
I also "ruined" a 1916 Spanish Mauser by having the gunsmith machine down the rear sight base, and put grooves in the sides of it so I could mount a red dot on there as low as possible. What the hell, I can actually USE it now, and it's mine anyhow, so FREEDOM!!!






Had him do an M44 for the boy. He came home last weekend and got it.



I guess I am the destroyer of history. Keeping things useful in the present.
daddyusmaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2020, 00:43   #21
Honor our Constitution !
 
Rockys Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: N.E. Alabama foothills
Posts: 4,062
if it was a 1st year (1888?) L/E bolt rifle I could understand people being upset about cutting it down.
The #4 was made in extreme haste starting just before WW2....and was mf'd in the MILLIONS LITERALLY.....plus, as you said, it's yours (!) .
If some of these folks knew how many .303s + Mausers of almost every model I rebarreled in popular calibers & usually either disgarded the stocks or cut them down & sporterized to sell back in the 90s they'd likely want to crucify me......

Historic rifles are in museums......shooters are whatever makes the owner smile !!
__________________
Well i'm just all broke up about that mans rights !!
Rockys Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2020, 08:06   #22
Full Member
 
Baltimoreed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: NC
Posts: 237
As I said in another post, a milsurps value is based on it’s current availability and intended use. When cheap Krags flooded the milsurp market companies grew up around the business of modding clunky 30 inch rifles into sporters. The same thing happened when 1903s became milsurps and Garands were cut down into fictional ‘tankers’. These guns had no value as surplus but did as sporters and range toys. Nowadays these same guns are more valuable as they once were as a military rifle so repro wood and parts are again being created to put them back together. Original rifles bring a premium. The bolt and semiautos we see today are the last of the true milsurps as M16s and all the other select fire guns will never be available to all of us except as semi auto reproductions. I’m afraid that unscrupulous dealers are stripping guns as there seem to be too many krag and 03 parts out there. The sum of the parts is greater than the whole unfortunately.

Last edited by Baltimoreed; 02-15-2020 at 10:05.
Baltimoreed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2020, 11:41   #23
Full Member
 
51colt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Joaquin valley Ca
Posts: 354
If you are not a collecter having rifles in the back of your safe that you do not enjoy shooting do you no good. My old eyes are not able to shoot iron sights very well. I have a post-war MN M44 I put an N-C Star 2-7 pistol scope on it. I bought the rear sight mount from a guy named Darrel 20 years ago the mount is great I put on and have touched it. It's no tack driver but it is a solid two-inch rifle at 100yds loaded with X39 and 308 non-BT 165gr bullets. Very enjoyable to shoot.

Look forward to seeing pics of your Enfield finished
__________________
Be vewy vewy quiet I'm hunting wabbits! Hahahah
51colt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 09:17   #24
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Pensacola, Fl.
Posts: 6
Sorry, you misperceived that as bashing, but that was NOT my intent. I was simply pointing out how the concepts of "scout" rifles and 'Tankers" and "Carbines" have evolved from their original intents. I didn't say that I didn't like "scout" rifles, I said that they have a specific purpose and I found that a "Scout" rifle didn't fit in my wheelhouse. The M1A SOCOM that I had was not accurate enough to follow up shots (too much recoil with the short barrel). I find it interesting that the "Carbine" concept , originally used for tankers and paratroopers has caught on as the "go-to " rifle today, where a full-sized AR would do much better Unless house clearing is my daily job, I'll stick with full sized guns. YMMV (that means what works for me , may not work for you and that's ok).
51colt likes this.
GeneC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2020, 09:55   #25
Full Member
 
daddyusmaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 161
Done at last... I tried,and failed to get the different woods to match. Ended up taking them to a local lady who does stain work, and antique restorations. It was worth it...

Couldn't get very good shots outside. the sun was so bright on the snow it was playing hell with my phone...




Last edited by daddyusmaximus; 03-30-2020 at 22:09.
daddyusmaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:55.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All information is copyright by Perfectunion.com unless already under copyright.