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Old 01-29-2016, 04:49   #1
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Independence Ammo

Took my brand new Stag #2 AR to the range with some Independence 55gr ammo. Shot about 20 rounds and then one exploded in my chamber. Locked the gun up and I had to take it to a smith to get the case out. New extractor, charging handle and labor costs later I had a functioning gun again. Haven't shot it yet although they did at the gun shop. These pics show where the case failed. Any other experiences like this with this ammo. The folks at the gun shop told me it was poor quality ammo but every review I have seen on the net rates it at least average to good.Click image for larger version

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Old 01-29-2016, 08:18   #2
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Thanks for the reply. Brand new ammo.
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Old 01-29-2016, 09:37   #3
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The Independence M193 is contracted out to IMI (made in Israel), and is usually good in quality. I haven't heard of anyone having this problem with it, but things can happen...
I usually stick with the Federal/American Eagle/AR556 M193 when cheap and available, but will supplement with Winchester Q3131 and the IMI/Independence M193. IMI also produces ammo for Israeli forces.
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Old 01-29-2016, 10:40   #4
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I've shot thousands of rounds of Independence XM193-I and never had any problems of any kind.
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Old 01-30-2016, 01:24   #5
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Couple Of Quick Things ...

XM193 5.56 ammo. The X means that particular batch of ammo was not accepted by our US Government for government use. It does not particularly mean the ammo is bad. It does means that for any number of reasons, big, small, petty, whatever, that ammo was not accepted. I will not use the word rejected.

We also for years thought factory ammo was the best. We were wrong. Years ago we experienced problems with performance using factory ammo. Finally got to the point where we had to face our false assumptions that factory ammo could never cause concerns. It was. Overall case length was all over.

Our latest discovery was with factory .30 Carbine ammo. Under power. Again, over long cases. A bigger concern with the USGI M1 Carbine. A straight wall case. Ouch. Our solution to return to hand loading does not rest with fun or money saved, but for producing safe ammo. Higher precision. Yikes!

Hundreds of AR15 builds using fine factory ammo that wasn't.
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Old 01-31-2016, 12:10   #6
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Are government shoots some from every batch and if they have any trouble they reject the hole batch. That tells you it is a BAD batch stay away from it also!
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Old 02-02-2016, 13:47   #7
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I first encountered Indpendance ammo when I was having some major Fails on a kimber ultra 1911... i thought I was having ectractor, springs etc problems...I'd take it into the local shop and the smith would work on it, test fire and hand it back to me saying it was running great... i'd take it out in my back yard and jammomatic!! i was getting really fed up..then on the 3rd visit he asked me what brand ammo i was shooting.. i told him the range stuff was just walmart winchester white box..same as i'd always used in my 3rd gen smiths etc with no issues other than dirty guns at the end of the day.

he recommended I try the shops's cheap range stuff... Independance..after firing the box of 50 with flawless performance i was amazed that my gun was suffering from walmart-i-tis ammo...yeah, iknow..tight short frame 1911...but my point is..the Independance stuff became my standard range ammo for the next couple years as it was readily available and priced right.
I'm guessing 1200rds of 45, bout the same 9mm and even some 40cal in there...always ran great.
when Sandy hook hit and the ammo shelves dried up, I seldom saw Independance again...there's still a "few" boxes in my closet and I'm glad to have it.
I don't currently own an AR15 platform, but i can tell you that my old mini 14 ranch rifle has never had an issue with the stuff...course that rifle would try to cycle marbles if you fed it...sorry to hear about the damage..glad you didn't get injurred
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Old 02-02-2016, 14:23   #8
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Rejected May Be The Wrong Word ...

COSteve brought up some very good points and thank you. A particular lot of ammo may just be fine in normal conditions, but may not quite be right at extreme conditions, like minus 40F degrees. Or 125F. Other reasons may be too much discoloring on the annealing around the bullet. Too much visible primer sealant, or too little.

Like already said, slightly irregular mixes in the brass or bullets. Crazy silly little differences in the powder used. Soss ... the X means the ammo was not accepted by our USA government. It does not necessarily mean the ammo is dangerous. Remember most ammo folks pay a ton in product liability insurance. It has to be safe.

Some rifle platforms seem not to care that much about ammo. The AK is one. The M16 is kinda another. The AR15 platform with in-spec chambers will tolerate some excessive head space. If a case failed on me like shown, first thing I would do is determine exact head space. If it happens again, cast your chamber for a good look see.
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Old 02-07-2016, 01:48   #9
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Bad ammo sucks. I bought some 5.56 ammo last year called Hot Shot Elite, its made in Romania, and its total crap. I got two shots off with this ammo before my Stag AR15 failed to eject the second round, and I didn`t have a cleaning rod with me to knock out the case. When I got home and was able to remove the case from the chamber, the rim of the case was torn were the extractor tried to grab it. All of the fired cases from this ammo show some type of deformation around the base of the case, like the brass is to soft, or something. I still have six boxes of this crap, and I wont be saving any of these cases for reloading.
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Old 05-08-2016, 15:24   #10
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Originally Posted by BWM View Post
Are government shoots some from every batch and if they have any trouble they reject the hole batch. That tells you it is a BAD batch stay away from it also!
This is in no way accurate.

Not even a little bit.
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Old 05-10-2016, 09:46   #11
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Originally Posted by COSteve View Post
Actually . . . . . . . . . . No. Rejecting a batch doesn't mean it's necessarily bad, it means it didn't meet the specs it was ordered to. Something as minor as a faulty cert on a lot of copper used in bullet manufacture could cause the Government to reject the lot.

41 years in U.S. Government procurement and I've seen things rejected for being out of spec . . . . . by being better than spec'd range. Still out of spec so the lot was rejected. Stupid? Certainly, but still the way Government Procurement under FAR (Federal Acquisition Regulations) works.

IF it is not good for are government then is is no good for me!! You see what happen to him. IT could had been a lot more damage and some one hurt bad or killed!
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