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old grump, I disagree but for a different reason. Most shotguns are not drop safe with a round chambered and the safety on. All the safety does is block the trigger, not the hammer or sear. I do not keep a round chambered in any of my 870's for that reason. I keep mine cruiser ready, hammer dropped on an empty chamber with the tube loaded. That the way I was trained.
 

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old grump, I disagree but for a different reason. Most shotguns are not drop safe with a round chambered and the safety on. All the safety does is block the trigger, not the hammer or sear. I do not keep a round chambered in any of my 870's for that reason. I keep mine cruiser ready, hammer dropped on an empty chamber with the tube loaded. That the way I was trained.
Good point and if I was carrying it out in the field I'd worry about that too but I'm talking house use probably with carpeted floors like I have in my bedroom where I keep my guns in a rack ready to grab. Again depends on who else is in house and your experience with firearms and familiarity with that shotgun. In the service I had to carry my magazine full but hammer down on an empty chamber. Considering some of the instances we had even that wasn't fool proof. Today I carry my 45 cocked and locked and all my modern revolvers with 6 rounds the older ones with 5 rounds for the same reason you stated. No single right answer and everybody has to determine their situation and comfort level.
 

· Odd Pachyderm thingy
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old grump, I disagree but for a different reason. Most shotguns are not drop safe with a round chambered and the safety on. All the safety does is block the trigger, not the hammer or sear. I do not keep a round chambered in any of my 870's for that reason. I keep mine cruiser ready, hammer dropped on an empty chamber with the tube loaded. That the way I was trained.
that's how I do it too, hammer down,empty spout, full tube, safe off. all you need to do is rack it, aim, and pull the trigger - it'll be racked as I mount it. by the time it's socked into the pocket of my shoulder - it's ready to fire.
as for the reduction in rounds... if i can't take care of "it" with 5 rounds of 12 gauge 00 - then it probably can't be taken care of with 6 ;)

if that is the case... I'll use that 5 rounds to get to my Mini 14 - which has 180 rounds in 6 mags available at a moments notice.
 

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I agree.

old grump, I disagree but for a different reason. Most shotguns are not drop safe with a round chambered and the safety on. All the safety does is block the trigger, not the hammer or sear. I do not keep a round chambered in any of my 870's for that reason. I keep mine cruiser ready, hammer dropped on an empty chamber with the tube loaded. That the way I was trained.
Children are all grown and out on their own, but the grandkids show up fairly regularlly. Plus I'd hate like hell to come in from a movie or dinner with the wife and have some scumbag holding it on me. Bottom line there is no absolute, anything can and does happen. However, going back to my military training we only locked and loaded when the crap was fixing to hit the fan.

Reb
 

· ANTI anti-gun activist
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Thanks grump I seen this thread and read it and was worried where it may go... too many like that lately...

kinda sounds like there going on a mission in COD or something lol
 

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Alittle know fact !

I hope and pray if I ever have to pull out my Mossberg 500 with my short slug barrel on it, that all it takes is the sound of me racking the action to load that 00 12 guage shell. Sure would mess the house up, but the scum bag that broke in a lot worse.

Reb
I much prefer 4 buck for my thought of taking out as many as possible with just one shot !;)
 

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Actually, the bird is easier to hit than the man, cause at 5 yds, which is long range, actually, for justifiable civilian defensive shooting, a 00 buck pattern is just 4" wide, and dangerous men offering only quickly bobbing head/shoulder as targets. Don't kid yourself about something that is so important, man. Birds aren't trying to kill you, while men "gang up" on you.
 

· I am NOT an animal.......
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Actually, the bird is easier to hit than the man, cause at 5 yds, which is long range, actually, for justifiable civilian defensive shooting, a 00 buck pattern is just 4" wide, and dangerous men offering only quickly bobbing head/shoulder as targets. Don't kid yourself about something that is so important, man. Birds aren't trying to kill you, while men "gang up" on you.
:eek:

Whatever happened to the 21 foot rule mister know it all???
 

· Walking Dead
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Pardon, for not reading the entire thread. I'm just relating personal experience.

While in the Navy, I was part of two security details. One, was just a matter of circumstance. Being in Weapons Department, we ran the armory. We stood the watches. We made up the security force.

Prior to Desert Storm and as our battle group was the one, heading there for the fireworks (I was there for Shield and Storm)... we started getting tactical training. They formed Visit, Board, Search and Seizure teams. They selected from the ships security detail. My firearm qualifications got me in.

I always grabbed an 870 or 500. Armorer finally asked me one day, "why?"

I asked him what were the bulkheads made of? Overhead? Deck? Pretty much everything in the P-way? Answer of course is, steel. So I don't care what someone's opinion is... yeah, you can pretty much point it in the general direction and hit what you want to. I know physics and that much about firearms, to know that much is true.

Now, because I carried the shotguns all the time, its what I got used to shooting, even when not in the confines of a 4' P-way (and because we didn't do range time in the P-ways). So, the fastest way I can grab one, get on target and pull the trigger, is from the hip. So I trained that way.

Inside of 50 yds, from the hip. I'll hit what I'm pointing at. Aiming? Some wouldn't call hip shots, aiming.

But, even if I pull it up to the shoulder, I don't really think of it as aiming. No... I just know where my POI is going to be, from the way my gun is setup and firing it enough.

As ManyFeathers wrote... I point a shotgun. I aim a rifle.

Outside that range, I'm going to want a different weapon. Which is why I have pretty much all my bases covered.
 

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If you do what you are supposed to do and look down along the top of your receiver and barrel and center it on your opponent, you'll hit him somewhere every time (within 50 yards). Whether or not that is considered "aiming" or "pointing" is semantics as far as I'm concerned.
 

· Draw, Varmint!
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Ref: 'whoa;748929'

hmmm...i thought the volume and "expertise" of his postings sounded familiar:

And, from our old buddy "tap", aka gunkid (5/10/2011):

knew a guy who did 114 daylight home invasions
during a 30 day period. His skin was green from using "speedball"s (heroin and speed mixture) and not eating at all during that period. He would just kick in the door, or cover up with his jacket and dive thru a window, grab a tv or something of value, and run sell it to the dope man. Not once did he hear a shot or see a gun, even tho people usually were in the house. So much for having the time needed to go get a "home defense" firearm! :). If you are not wearing it, you probably won't have the chance to use it., except by pure luck.
Brilliant Catch! (My compliments!) :D

PS: Would anyone like to bring this incredibly wandering thread back online? The original topic is one of my favorite subjects; and I taught it, with some success, for years.
 

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you ASSUME that he'll be fully exposed to your fire, and that your pattern will be centered. But it wont be. If you were the type to actually center your pattern, you'd be using a rifle. When people are using cover, 00 buck and a typical riot barrel have head-and shoulder sized holes in the pattern at 25 yds.. Random hits to shoulder and gut, with what amounts to a 38 lrn from a snubby cannot be counted upon to mean diddly for quite some time, meaning many minutes, or even hours in some cases.
 

· AKA CRABBY
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you ASSUME that he'll be fully exposed to your fire, and that your pattern will be centered. But it wont be. If you were the type to actually center your pattern, you'd be using a rifle. When people are using cover, 00 buck and a typical riot barrel have head-and shoulder sized holes in the pattern at 25 yds.. Random hits to shoulder and gut, with what amounts to a 38 lrn from a snubby cannot be counted upon to mean diddly for quite some time, meaning many minutes, or even hours in some cases.
LOL you're responding to a 4+ year old post :blink:
The member isn't even around nowdays but that's OK we understand its a corona thing.:rolleyes:
 

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regardless of who's around, the post still gets read by current and future people. Do you really 'think' that these issues change every month, or what? They were the same thing 50 years ago and my answer still applies. Nothing is going to change about it. If you make the pattern tighter, like a Vang Barrel does, it might as well be a rifle inside 30 ft. The choice of shotgun is the mark of the guy who wont train enough to be waf with rifle and pistol. I haven't bothered to own one in over 40 years and never will. I do my small game hunting with a pocket .22lr, to make it interesting. Birds all land and can be stalked just like game. Critters all stop running. it's for SPORT, so what if you dont score? It doesnt mean anything and I'm getting practice with one of my shtf guns, as well as my stalking.

If you really do need to score on small game, better have a fighting rifle with a sound suppressor, night sights, night vision and armor, and be using 40+ traps, snares, trotlines, bird lime, fish poison and net weirs and seines. That will be the only way that you can reasonably count upon having 5-10 lbs of live weight flesh food every day. Walking around with a shotgun, making all that noise, is just going to get you shot if it's shtf.
 

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Wow, lots of fire, little light here. While I am sure very one who has posted here has far more experience than I do running night drills through the house, running night drills in the dark at the range, what will or will not blind/deafen you at night in the house (enclosed area) from actual experence, than I do, but if I might ask a few questions, so I can learn from all the expertise here.

Have any of you gone to the range and set up a series of note book paper (8 1/2" x 11" should be fine/will work, bigger is, of course, better) at 5' with one straight behind it at 10'-15'-20' on out to 10 yards or so (I get tire of lining all of them up on cardboard boxes, but YOU do what YOU want, more, less, what makes YOU happy. If YOU are happy, I'm happy), and then shooting (I need to be sitting or prone so everything is lined up, I don't have enough stands to get them all high enough to stand, which of course would be ideal), so gun barrel, target, back stop, are lined up to actually SEE what YOUR shotgun does with various loads (bird shot, 00 buck, #4 buck, slug, whatever, maybe a Dragon Fire for fun, but probably not out of a gas auto though) at various distances, so you ACTUALLY know what your gun does with what?

DO you need to aim a shotgun, or does "pointing in the general area of where you heard to noise" (which I am assured by nearly everyone, who admits, eventually, they have never tried/done it, claims is/does work fine) actually work because "the shotgun will spread so much it doesn't matter!" at 10 ft to maybe 30 feet (or as far as your house has straight aways anyway).

Maybe lean a few sheets of plywood together to make a "hall" to shoot through at night to test for flash/bang? DOES the flash blind you? DOES the noise (concussion) about "knock you down"?

Ever tried "shooting them in the eye" with turning/swinging targets at close range? In broad day light? At three feet? 5 feet? In the dark? At three feet or maybe 5 feet? I love hearing about how everyone is going to do that when they can barely keep 5 shots on a 3'x3' target at 10 feet after running (or walking) in place for two minutes to get the heart rate going. (But I'm sure you can do a 5 minute mile and hit a 3" target at 10 yards with 10 shots at minute 6. Me? I'll be about ten minutes behind you, to back you up, so don't worry.)

Pleae let me know, I am wondering!
 

· Patron Saint of Rye
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I point a shotgun

I aim a rifle/pistol

At close range, I will point all 3

At 2am in the morning, I hear a bump in the night, I will be pointing and not aiming

When I'm bird hunting, I can't even honestly say I see anything other than the bird itself
Why when aimed fire is actually effective and literally takes no more time?
 
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