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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a question gents,

After reading about Wolf ammo and the possible problems it's
steel casings could present I was a concerned about possible barrel and chamber wear. I hope they use weaker steel then Ruger. Any how then I heard about steel bullets. So I did the magnet test on some Wolf 7.62x39 and they were magnetic. I then scrapred off some copper and saw a shine in side. Now I hope the copper jacket is thick enough to meet the rifling with out exposing steel.

So the other thought I had was how soon before they start calling this ammo cop killer bullets because a steel bullet will go right through a Kevlar vest, it doesn't deform. For all intensive purposes if they are made out of steel they are armor peircing
rounds.

So are they made out of steel? and if so are cops in danger?
Will they be banned, should they be banned?

I have heard both pro and con about possible wear and tear on our weapons as well, should we really be concerned?

I used it and it seemed to work fine in my mini-30, I will attempt to trap a few on my next range outing to check on the rifling grooves. I also have a surplus Israeli Kevlar army helmet which I will subject to some ballistics tests. I'll post results

TC :cannon:
 

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I was making some 65-75 yard shots at some 1/4" iron plate scrap this weekend. I was using 7.62x39 Wolf h.p. in a Mini-30. I had a 6"x6" plate dangling from some fishing line, expecting just dents in the plate. I was amazed to see 8 super clean holes much the same as my 30-06 with AP military rounds!
As for barrel damage, all I can say for sure is: "I sure hope not!"
As far as your question: "Should they be banned?" is concerned:
I believe that nothing should EVER be banned except child abuse, warm beer, antigunners, and Ruger's current quality control inspectors. Besides, it's a good CHEAP plinking round. Criminals who shoot at cops will get any ammo they want.....banned or not.
Good luck with kevlar test. Should be interesting.
J2H
 

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I always wondered why the Ruskies would sell us cheap ammo. To wear out our rifles? Maybe Wolf powder expires on about Jan, 2003.

On more serious note, I'm taking the advise of this forum. Some say the lacquer on Wolf ammo burns and builds up in the chamber. Steel bullets are a reasonable concern, too. I have to believe there's lead in there, or the weight/volume ratio wouldn't look right.

Also, for anybody concerned about cop safety or your own safety: Kevlar is not armor. It does not stop rifle bullets of any kind past .22LR. Kevlar helmets are even less effective than Kevlar vests. You can punch a hole in a Kevlar helmet with a rock hammer.

Just my 2 cents worth of attitude.

KC

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Don't get me wrong I'am not for a Wolf ammo ban by any means and a face shot gets them anyway. I was concerned about uneducated liberals going off the deep end as usual.

I do think the box should be labeled if the bullets are of an unusual composition. I will have to take one apart and section a bullet.

S&B bullets were also magentic by the way. But the cases aren't laquered.

The vest I wore on airport National Guard secuity detail for 6 months had a steel plate that was proof against 7.62x51 ball.
We also had the new berets which everyone knows are sabot proof.

Steel bullets or some type of non lead may be in the future for environmental concerns. I read a while ago that the Army was looking for a non polluting bullet to cut down on lead contamination on its ranges. Tree huggers strike again.

TC :cannon:
 

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Fellas I don't own a mini 30. Unless my brain damage is worse from the nitro from burning rounds, here is a little news. The 7.62x39 is a .311 diameter bullet. The groove diameter in your mini according to literature is .308. Shooting steel jacketed bullets might present a wear issue. Unless you have found some steel cored ammo out there that is surplus, it's no longer allowed to be imported. When olympic arms came up with there 7.62x39 type pistol(Watch "Clear and Present Danger") One of the actors had a .223 type version of the same pistol. The ATF immediately banned further import due to the penetrating capability of the steel cored 7.62x39 when olympic arms put their pistol on the market. AP pistol ammo is a NO! NO! and you will go to jail If your caught with it and a pistol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I sectioned a Wolf 7.62 hollow tip bullet last night. They are steel cased and copper washed. The fill is some type of alloy it was magnetic but malliable. I saw them described as bimetal on the Sportsmansguide site. Well so much for Wolf steel jacketed bullets cannot be good for a mini-30 barrel.

Anyone know if all Russian ammo is that way? I'll use what I have left then look around for other makers. I will also shop with a magnet.

Still have to trap a bullet and check the rifling grooves.

TC:cannon:
 

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Good idea, Tank. What's the best way to trap a bullet? I've tried wet phone books backed up by wood. It's good for handguns, but my 7.62x39 and '06 go through it like butter. How about a box of clay?
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Joe
 

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Hmm, isn't there a way to use a kinetic hammer to pull the bullet and then force it through the barrel? I suppose this doesn't have the same effect?

You might want to contact a local police detective unit. Talk to the forensics dept and ask them how they trap for rifle ballistics tests.
I think they use a material like newspapers hung inside a long box.
 

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Forensics uses a big, big steel, enclosed vat of water. I've seen it done on the Discovery Channel. I KNOW!! I'll try my bath tub!!!
Nah, people downstairs might complain.
J2H
 

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Some of the Wolf 7.62x39 does not have the steel jacket. It is a bit more expensive than the other. The steel is soft, much softer than the gun steel. Also, the copper wash over the jacket provides a separating coating. I would be more worried about the extracter wearing out than the bore.
The Mini-30 bore is supposed to be .310 to .311 according to Ruger, who I talked to just recently. Pre '93 models had a bore that started at .310 or .311 and necked down to .308 at the muzzle.
I use Russian ammo in my 30 and don't really worry about it. It's too cheap to pass up for me.:ar15:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Wolf ammo uses berdan primers.

The more I think about it the less I like it. I have to believe a steel jacketed bullet will cause more wear on the rifling the conventional ammo. Once I use up my stock pile of Wolf no more.

I wonder, is all Eastern Block ammo steel jacketed or does Wolf make non steel ammo as well?

TC
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When I say steel on target I mean APFSDS not my small arms.
 

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My marksman friend and I were talking today about buying surplus ammo from CMP, and clear out of the blue he said that WWII surplus 30.06 ammo is steel jacketed. Really? I asked. That was certainly news to me.

Before we get too bent out of shape about steel swaging down our mini's, maybe we need the ammo maker's input.

How bad does it wear, and when did you know it?

Any thrillseekers want to make a HALO jump into Kazikstan?

KC
 

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The U.S. military 30'06 I used to get was brass, boxer primed, and with annealed case necks. After initial trimming, they could be reloaded many times. They came on chain link in ammo cans marked U.S. M-2 BALL, and I think they were made by Lake City Arsenal. This was back around 1979 to 1982. That supply may be depleted. It was made in the late 40's. Extremely accurate. I used to get it from Martin B. Retting gunshop in Culver City, Kal.
Joe:beer:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I remember reading about the steel jackets on some military ammo, especially European stuff. I don't think the Army would be to concerned about wearing out barrels. They were fighting a war and when the barrel wears out you issue a new rifle or just rebarrel it. Theywere not thinking in the long term, if they got the soldier to fire enough rounds to wear out the gun they were doing great.

The Army did a study after the war and found that most soldiers never fired their rifle in combat. The guys with the automatic weapons did most of the shooting.

We gun owners however want the longest life possible out of our guns so I am concerned about steel jackets.

Sending a e-mail to Wolf may be a good idea lets see what they have to say.

TC:cannon:
 

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I thought Wolf, and Bernauls bullets were of the same design i.e.: Steel case, berdan primed, steel core bullet with lead surounding the steel core, and wraped in a copper jacket. The Bernaul I cut into was of this type. The only steel contact was the case in the chamber, and steel on the extractor / bolt face. Is Wolf different? I've never used it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The Wolf round I cut in half was ahollow point 122 grain round.
It had a steel jacket that was copper washed and a bimetal core.
TYhe filling was a soft alloy that was also ferous.

If Bernauls ammo has a steel core with a real copper jacket I would say it would cause less wear.

I raised this question on another site and someone stated that the steel jackets would be a softer steel and not wear to badly.
I'm not sure about that, steel on steel has got to be worse then copper on steel.

I'm going to look at the S&B ammo I have to see how that shapes up.

TC:cannon:
 

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Good idea TC. I tried a few weeks ago, and all I could find was the Wolf importer in San Diego. I doubt if they know anything but counting cash, but let's give it a try.
Joe
 

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The US Army tested steel cased ammo against copper cased ammo and found no real difference in barrel wear. As I said before, the copper wash provides just enough separation to make the steel on steel contact not happen. Plus the steel of the cases is much softer.
But if it makes you feel better, Wolf carries copper jacketed rounds. They advertise it as not wearing out the barrel as fast as the bimetal, and I seem to recall that I contacted them about it and they said the copper jacketed stuff was easier on the barrel. Then again they are the only Russian ammo maker that carries copper jacketed 7.62x39 as far as I know, so maybe they want to hype it?
 
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