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Why are these factory Ruger extractors so different?

7K views 16 replies 8 participants last post by  Dale_R 
#1 · (Edited)
I know I just did a thread on an extraction issue, but because I discovered two VERY different factory extractors I am doing a separate thread for the benefit or future searches and those who don't want to read yet another extraction issue.

Long story short: Had extraction issues, discovered new factory replaced extractor is VERY different from OEM Ruger placement part # KMS01400A

Here are pics first of my problem and the the old factory installed vs. new Ruger brand extractor:


Look at the differences- The old one in the first pic (on the left) clearly has a much smaller groove and bearing area than the stronger looking one on the right. It may also be nicked (not sure). Is it broken? maybe, but the overall shape is different and the finish/quality is equally different.

In the 2nd pic, which is a little fuzzy, the same thing is visible & the new one has a K in a circle. Its also shaped slightly differently.

Why would Ruger install a crappy extractor during a previous repair?? Why are there 2 different types?

In any event, this is why I keep spares of everything!
 

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#2 ·
I'm guessing, it could be for a different rifle mini 30 or 6.8, or an older series bolt. If they are new to the rifle assembly and don't know the difference in extractors sizes.

Could be Ruger has someone making certain parts for their rifles and not all were inspected for proper fit.
 
#3 ·
Could be but for one thing---

I'm guessing, it could be for a different rifle mini 30 or 6.8, or an older series bolt. If they are new to the rifle assembly and don't know the difference in extractors sizes.

Could be Ruger has someone making certain parts for their rifles and not all were inspected for proper fit.
Could be but for one thing---This rifle was supposedly gone over & worked on by a senior tech for extraction issues 3 months ago! Hmmm....... Test functioned it with dummy bullets, but real ammo is the real test of course. I've already put aside 3-4 brands for next time.
 
#4 ·
To the OP, y'all ought to ask Gundoc - he's the expert in this area.

MY WAG would be that the more primitive lookin' extractor could be an older design, and the more "developed" lookin' one could be a more recent update to the design.

Could even be differences in the manufacturing technique, i.e. investment casting vs MIM. MIM allows for more extreme and finely finished shapes. This is just the sheerest speculation, so for heaven's sake don't take any of my WAG and take 'em too seriously.

Gundoc is the fella who is most likely to know.

Best,
Grumpy
 
#7 ·
Partial solution:

I called Ruger. The newer looking extractor with much more defined "claw" is correct. They were puzzled at the first one, much less how and why it was installed by a senior tech.

On the plus side, I fixed it myself & didn't need to send the gun back to Ruger. They are sending me replacement parts to replace ones I used from my personal stock. Although this is a new gun I always acquire common spare parts for every gun. Already had an extractor, spring & plunger.
 
#8 ·
The extractors are basically the same - the difference is in the ejection system.

Older Minis have a spring loaded ejector (plunger) in the bolt face ala the Garand, M1A/M14, M1 carbine, ARs and a host of others - including many bolt guns such as the Remington 700.

The Ranch and newer Minis have a fixed, side-mounted ejector working via a slot in the bolt near the left locking lug.

That said - the extractor that was in the rifle from the "repair" looks horrible.

YMMV
 
#9 ·
True.

The extractors are basically the same - the difference is in the ejection system.

Older Minis have a spring loaded ejector (plunger) in the bolt face ala the Garand, M1A/M14, M1 carbine, ARs and a host of others - including many bolt guns such as the Remington 700.

The Ranch and newer Minis have a fixed, side-mounted ejector working via a slot in the bolt near the left locking lug.

That said - the extractor that was in the rifle from the "repair" looks horrible.

YMMV
I often wondered why they switched from a spring loaded plunger to a fixed ejector. Most likely cost.

It appears as though a senior tech inexplicably installed either a wrong or broken extractor a few months ago when the rifle was in for service after ejection issues a few months ago. The rep had no answer. I guess "crap happens" is the best explanation.

Good thing I had spare parts & Ruger is sending me new ones to replenish me.
 
#11 ·
I'm still having similar intermittent issues with my Mini. I'm not nearly as competent as you/jws360 in this arena -- I've never disassembled a bolt and would not personally attempt it.

A lot of guys say "if you have any issues send it to Ruger, their costumer service is excellent, they'll fix it no questions asked" -- but I'm also reading quite a few people who have sent their rifles back and had them returned unfixed, or with new issues. It sounds a bit like the folks who answer the phones are very helpful, but the ones who work on the rifles are hit or miss.

I think I'm going to just save up my money and have GunDoc work on mine. I've reduced my gun collection considerably, and now I'm looking for just a few rifles that are 100% functionally reliable. I'm hoping that this can be one of them, so far, that's not the case.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Don't say you aren't as competent.

I'm still having similar intermittent issues with my Mini. I'm not nearly as competent as you/jws360 in this arena -- I've never disassembled a bolt and would not personally attempt it.....
Don't say you aren't as competent. Better to say you have yet to learn.

I started small & taught myself. Now I can build an AR and more. I research, get specs/torque settings, etc and determine what tools I need (new tools are always fun) and only then proceed.

What I do is get a parts breakdown so I know what to look for & what tiny springs, plungers and other parts are prone to getting lost. Ruger has one in the manual or it can be downloaded online.

Lets start with disassembling the rifle. Can you do this? Here are some links I just looked up:



(this is 1 of 3 )



General service info/article:

http://www.gun-tests.com/special_re...esert-Storm-Brownells2266-1.html#.U-plbFb0eR8

How to remove the bolt assembly:



How to remove the extractor:

Ruger Mini 14 Bolt Maintenance by Great West Gunsmithing

Let me know if this helps or if you need more. FYI, the following is my list of mini spare parts (and yes, I keep a list for all I own. It is 14 pages):

Ruger Mini 14

1 KMS01400A Extractor
2 MS01500 Extractor spring
1 KMS01600 Extractor plunger
1 KMS02400 Secondary sear spring
1 KMS03100B Mag latch
1 KMS03210 Ejector bolt stop
0 KMS03901 Guide rod
1 KMS04500 Bolt lock
1 KMS04600 Bolt lock plunger spring
1 KMS04700 Hammer spring
1 KMS04800 Trigger spring
1 KMS04900 Safety detent spring
1 KMS05000 Mag latch latch spring
2 KMS05101 Recoil spring
1 KMS06700 Bolt lock cover
1 Wolff brand recoil spring
1 KMS02200 Heat shield
1 OEM Ruger firing pin from Ruger fit to gun
1 "Glend Arms Oversize Firing Pin". Part N/A from Ruger- may need
minor fitting. See package
1 OEM rear right. Replaced by Tech Sights Mini200
1 Hogue Overmold stock, Ruger branded. Must be used w/ heat shield (Has
caused some 10 rd. mags to jam)
1 Ruger heat shield (on stock)
1 Set OEM scope rings and rail.
 
#12 ·
humanrobert:

I hope you are not referring to me as "Competent" would not apply in my case. :rolleyes:

I've launched more ejectors and springs and little pins than I can count.

I once launched the ejector and spring from my M1 carbine bolt. Couldn't find it for weeks - it was laying on top of a 5' high book cabinet - right at the edge.

My friend grabs screw drivers out of my hand whenever I get anywhere near his guns.

And don't get me started on my adventures with dremels and other power tools...literally a tale of blood, sweat and tears.:lol:

YMMV
 
#14 ·
ssm -- someone once told me that a healthy mix of confidence and a good sense of humor will get you through the hard part of the learning curve, seems like that's served you well :)

jws -- thanks, that's a lot of excellent information. :)

I'm just putting together a shop in my garage (recently bought a house), but the last time I tried to take apart a rifle (beyond cleaning it), I was doing it on my lap on the couch, springs flying across the living room and small parts disappearing into the carpet, etc. If I have the right tools, good lighting, and some guidelines, I suppose I might give it a try some time.

The rifles I own for fun, I'm much more likely to attempt to work on -- if it sits in a box in a dozen pieces while I do more research or track down some part or tool I don't have, that's not an issue. It's kind of like with my car; I might change the oil or replace the stereo, but when it comes to things like brakes, I have someone with a lot of experience do the work. Some things I won't risk with my learning curve.

I'm down to one semi-auto in 5.56, and that's my Mini, so my primary objective is that it's working flawlessly when I reach for it.
 
#15 · (Edited)
For me learning is 3/4 of the fun.

.....

jws -- thanks, that's a lot of excellent information. :)

I'm just putting together a shop in my garage (recently bought a house), but the last time I tried to take apart a rifle (beyond cleaning it), I was doing it on my lap on the couch, springs flying across the living room and small parts disappearing into the carpet, etc. If I have the right tools, good lighting, and some guidelines, I suppose I might give it a try some time.

The rifles I own for fun, I'm much more likely to attempt to work on -- if it sits in a box in a dozen pieces while I do more research or track down some part or tool I don't have, that's not an issue. It's kind of like with my car; I might change the oil or replace the stereo, but when it comes to things like brakes, I have someone with a lot of experience do the work. Some things I won't risk with my learning curve.

I'm down to one semi-auto in 5.56, and that's my Mini, so my primary objective is that it's working flawlessly when I reach for it.
I use a workbench and good lighting. The spare parts are half intended for when springs launch themselves or I turn the bolt over & forget the spring is still in it and it falls to the concrete floor only to bounce who knows where.

My thinking is that I want to be intimately familiar with my firearms when I have no need to be. This way, if confronted with a sudden need to fix something in adverse conditions I know what to do. I have spares for everything. Both spare parts AND spare guns.

If I were you I'd buy common spare parts- extractors, springs, plungers, op rod spring and more. It'll cost you maybe $50. Once you have the parts THEN try to disassemble. If something goes flying you have a spare. Note that my part numbers are for a stainless rifle. Not all will match with a blued one.

Funny you mention brakes. I taught myself to do pads & rotors. The way vars are today & all the electronics (my car doesn't even have a dipstick & must be on a lift to change the oil......) there is less and less I can do.

Again, hope this helps. Let me know if you need more.
 
#16 ·
One more point- The plunger

One more thing- another poster's picture caused me to re-examine my bolt. The plunger was slightly damaged for unknown reasons. One edge of the top most part was rounded. I just replaced it as well. Polished the bolt load bearing surfaces and a gently fixed a tiny nick in the round part which engages the op rod at the same time. Perhaps one of my jams caused all these issues.

Re greased and ready for testing.
 
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