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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a standard synthetic mini 14. This is my first rifle and I got this in March of 2002. One day I just decided I want to get into shooting, and thats exactly what I did. I have been screwing around at the range at 50 and 100 yards. I live in California and its illegal to have a muzzle brake, although i could do something under the table =). I would measure my best by hitting a 5 1/2 inch circle at 100 yards, 14 out of 20 times. Currently I am using Wolf 55gr 223 ammo. I got a deal on it, like 1000 rounds for 130 bucks. I am thinking about changing my rear sight, as its the standard factory issue and it looks like someone took a needle and poked a hole through some plastic. Any suggestions? I looked at www.aosightsystems.com and took a look around their sight packages, anyone have any experience with these?:ar15: I would say the grouping is about 5 inches, but it could just be my shooting fundamentals that need to be worked on. Any other thoughts of tightening up that group?
 

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Muzzle brakes are NOT illegal in California.
 

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Howdy Ken.Welcome to the site.I too live in the PRoK.Southern
area.I have a muzzle brake on my mini and it is NOT illegal.
If you put a flash supressor on,well now that's another can
of worms.I have the paperwork from the maker of mine and
it's legal.The only thing you have to do is once the barrel is
threaded you have to have the brake pinned and/or welded
on.This I have done to mine.There are a few different sights
for the mini.I don't know if you have a Ranch mini or standard.
I'm going to post a couple of different sites for you.You have
to remember that the barrel is not the best and if you want
to get tight shots you will have to spend some dough.Ask
Bill Watson.He is going thru this as well as I did.Our ways
of doing it are a little different but any way you look at it,
it's gonna cost some.One thing you can do to help is install
a recoil buffer.It will help accuracy a bit as you don't have
the op-rod banging into the receiver as hard.I use a buffer
from my Colt Goverment and it works fine.Anyway here ya
be.Muzzlebrake and then a site for different parts and such.
Any way you look at it,welcome to the shootin sport.bg
[I should say this brake is not for everyone.It does look
weird as all get-out,but does what I wanted which is
reduce recoil almost to a nil.I like it,but it does look
strange,and it makes cleaning the bore a bit difficult with
the seperated walls of the brake in trying to feed either
a cleaning rod or what I use an Otis kit.The rod will
get caught on the middle seperating wall.It's a little
bit of a pain,but considering what it provides for me,
I can live with it.]

www.jpar15.com

www.brownells.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The black warrior double muzzle brake on cheaperthandirt.com says it will not fit mini-14s with a serial number of 195 or higher, that the barrel diameter is too large. Mine is 196:( Of course. I have a K-Mini-14/5P Are their any other muzzle brakes that will fit and are good that dont look like their out of a space movie (lol sorry bgs). www.johnmasen.com says that muzzle brakes cannot currently be shipped to California:( So where do i get one then. Also what is this stock bedding I am hearing about? maybe ill wait on that one though.
 

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Like I mentioned the brake I have is not for everyone,in fact I've
gotten more than my fair share of abuse with it.That's ok as I
was an abused child growin up.[Just kiddin.my folks were more
than generous with me].There are a number of folks making
brakes for the mini-14. Brownells has some in their catalog,
which by the way for 5.00 is one of the biggest goodies catalog
going. There is a site called Accuracy Sys that have one along
with Clarks Custom Guns,etc. If you want more info,you can look
at the other threads on the the mini-14 forum.You'll find some
decent posts regarding the brake. You can also use your search
engine,Yahoo,etc. All you do is type in "Mini-14 Muzzle
Brake". You will get some sites that can help you.I know it is
hard to find a brake out here in the PRoK.The only thing I can
tell you is once you go for it,it will have to be attached in such
a way as NOT to be able to be removed.Pinned and welded.That
is what we got with Davis in office and SB23 as the so-called
"Assault Weapons"law.Here are some sites.

www.midwayusa.com
www.cdnn.com
www.AccuracySystemsInc.com
www.tapco.com
 

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Ken, I have a New SS Ranch 196-series, I installed the Black warrior double muzzle brake, on my mini $19.95. It fits perfect, and looks cool!!! It cut my groups in half. From 4 1/2" to 2 1/4" at 100 yds. It reduces recoil i.e. muzzle jump also. Installation is easy, just drive out the front sight pin, slip the brake over the front sight, drive in the longer supplied roll pin. Bam, your done. 5 min. tops. I have done a few other things to my mini so my average group is 1.5" with some groups sub MOA. I'm working on some reloads now to try and tighten things up a little more.
I didn't like my sights either so I scoped mine.
It might be a good idea to read for yourself the laws in your state, so you won't have to wonder if the guy next to ya is giving ya some mis-info. Check out this link:
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws.asp?FormMode=state
Note: I'd keep the receipt for the muzzle brake, in a safe place in case one day some commy points a finger at your mini, and you need to prove it is a muzzle brake. Some people don't know the diff.
 

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Hey, I gots a dumb question (being a newbie and all) ;)

If I were to take off my front sight completely, do you guys think I could still keep my Black Warrior Double Brake on? Is there a groove for the retaining pin cut into the barrel?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So it appears that I can buy that blackwarrior double muzzle brake. Ill buy it and tell ya how it goes. So I just weld that baby on there and I dont have to register it or anything like that. Every gun shop employee and gun range worker said that I can't get a muzzle brake, I would have to register it. They must have been mistaken with a flash suppressor. Thanks for the info people.
 

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No, I think the double-brake is a flashider/brake combo,so that would be a no go.
I went to a gunsmith today and they were saying a brake on an SKS was illegal. :confused:
Bill, do you know for sure about brakes in Kali? I have never heard about having to weld them on to be legal. Would JB Weld count?
 

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No it won't stay on. Yes there is a slot in the top of the barrel, but you need the Hole in the sight blade to hold the roll pin in place.

KEN you missed my post a couple up, you don't need to weld it on you pin it on. Also what Bam said is partly correct. I have seen a clone muzzle brake by John Mason, they call it a muzzle brake flash hider combo, Cheaper than dirt calls it a double muzzle brake, and my receipt says muzzle brake. Bushmaster has a real muzzle brake for $39. it also pins in you don't need to weld it. Here is your states laws:
Effective January 1, 2000, the definition of "assault weapon" also includes any of the following: (1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: (A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. (B) A thumbhole stock. 漏 A folding or telescoping stock. (D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher. (E) A flash suppressor. (F) A forward pistol grip. (2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. (3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches. (4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: (A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer. (B) A second handgrip. 漏 A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel. (D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip. (5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. (6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following: (A) A folding or telescoping stock. (B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip. (7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine. (8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder. (B) "Assault weapon" does not include any antique firearm. 漏 The following definitions shall apply under this section: (1) "Magazine" shall mean any ammunition feeding device. (2) "Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of accommodating more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds. (3) "Antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899. Firearms that fit the above descriptions which were possessed on December 31, 1999 can be kept if they are registered between January 1, 2000 and December 31, 2000. Firearms that are on the Roberti-Roos list, but not currently validly registered, cannot now be registered.

A person moving into this state, otherwise in lawful possession of an "assault weapon," shall do one of the following: Prior to bringing the "assault weapon" into the state, that person shall first obtain a permit from the Department of Justice, or the person shall cause the "assault weapon" to be delivered to a licensed gun dealer who shall redeliver that "assault weapon" to the person if that person obtains a permit from the Department of Justice.

Unless otherwise specified, registered "assault weapons" may only be possessed:

1. At registrant's residence, place of business, or other property owned by such registrant, or on property owned by another with permission.

2. At certain recognized target ranges or shooting clubs.

3. At certain recognized exhibitions.

4. While on publicly owned land upon which possession and use of "assault weapons" is specifically permitted by the managing agency.

5. While transporting the assault weapon between any of the places listed above, or to any licensed gun dealer.

It is a felony to offer for sale, give or lend any "assault weapon". The does not apply to a person who lends a registered "assault weapon" to another person who is 18 years of age or over if all of the following conditions apply: (1) the person to whom the "assault weapon" is lent is not prohibited from possessing a firearm and remains in the presence of the registered possessor, and (2) the "assault weapon" is possessed at a licensed target range, or at the target range of a public or private club organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets, or at an exhibition, display or education project sponsored by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized firearms entity.

If you go back and read the rest of it you will see SKS are considered assult weapons.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
cheaperthandirt's exact description: for Blackwarrior Double Muzzle Brake. "Double Muzzle Brake designed to fit the mini-14 only. Easy to install muzzle brake with both holes and slots to drastically reduce recoil and muzzle flip. Slips on around your original front sight and tightens in place. Requires no gunsmithing and allows you to keep your current front sight in place. Stainless steel, new in package. Legal to own, this is a muzzle brake NOT a flashhider." That convinces me that its not a flash suppressor. In the assault weapons identification a flash suppressor alters the flash in any way. No information about a muzzle brake.
 

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Thought I'd jump in here - I also have a 196 series SS Ranch, and the John Masen double muzzle brake fits fine, although a shim or two is necessary to make it tight to the barrel.

I think the problem lies in the precise definition of "muzzle brake" vs. "flash suppressor". I read somewhere (here?) that a muzzle brake should have an inside diameter similar to the barrel caliber (i.e. .223), whereas a flash suppressor has a much larger inside diameter, more like the outside diameter of the barrel. Under this definition, the John Masen model is definitely more of a flash suppressor than a muzzle brake. It stands to reason that if you want to reduce muzzle climb, it would be more effective to vent the gases directly from the barrel inner diameter rather than venting them after they've expanded to the larger inner diameter of the John Masen brake. Many muzzle brakes are composed simply of holes or slots in the upper surface of the barrel near the muzzle. I suspect the real issue is the appearance, not the function. If the anti-assault gun folks saw the John Masen rig, I bet they would declare it an assault gun component. Comments?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The real problem lies in the lawmakers of california. The rules are so vague and it IS a one party state. Everyone knows what their ultimate goal is, and since they can't achieve it just yet, they will make laws to harrass and annoy gun owners with these laws. Now, really, whats a flash suppressor. DEFINITION of A flash suppressor- alters the flash in such a way that it makes people spontaneously rob banks. :ar15: Puttin on sunglasses might also alter the flash, so we should ban those also. Hell youll need a license probably to own sunglasses. All we can do pretty much is vote for the NRA backed candidate, and even then change probably wont amount to much, im gonna move somewhere else, and believe me its a lot more than just the gun laws in california.
 

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Aren't ski masks illegal in California yet? I mean, look at those guys who robbed that bank in LA with automatic weapons ('97 was it?). They had full body armor on with ski masks under their helmets.

I thought it was the ski masks that made people rob banks?

I also wonder why someone in that police force didn't have a hig-powered rifle at hand? Pistol bullets and shotgun blasts didn't even slow these bastards down. Where was the guy with a Mini-14 shooting these guys in the head/neck/even their guns?

If you are wearing an 'armor' glove, wouldn't a direct hit at least break all his fingers? Makes it awful hard to pull the trigger when your hand is all busted.

My point is: Were the police not adequately armed because of some retarded Liberal politician? I wouldn't doubt it. Let me on top of a building for a few minutes with a Mini-14, a good sighted scope, and some FMJ rounds. Those bank robbers would have been liver sausage.
 

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" I suspect the real issue is the appearance, not the function. " I think vista is correct, so I sent an e-mail to the NRA asking for their definition of a "Flash hider", and Muzzle Brake. Also how we can tell the difference by looking at one. I tried to e-mail the ATF, but they won't answer an e-mail, only hand written letters. I guess that way they can expand their file, on individuals, finger prints, dna sample, etc. So tomorrow a.m. the letter along with dna will be sent to them posing the same questions. I figure 5 days there, 10 different desk shuffles ( min. 3 days each desk), 20 days in their legal dept. and 5 days back we will have our answer "Dear sir we have received your inquiry, and are in the process of processing it." Here is an example. Can you tell which it is?
Just got a reply from the NRA, they want it in writing also. What's up with that?
 

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Cajungeo:

Are you sure you want to ask the ATF for a definition? That might trigger a policy review and an answer we don't want to hear. Kind of like "...walking across the street to get your a** kicked!" I certainly would not recommend asking the California anti-gun politicos for an opinion.
 

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IT didn't get mailed, as your probably right, I will ask the sherrif. I shoot with him twice a month. He let me shoot his swat rifle, .5"groups all day long. Anyway I'd hate to think I was doing the right thing, and land in jail, or give some advise causing someone else to go to jail, because of a stupid definition. Thats why I'm keeping my recipt which says "Muzzle Brake"!
 

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I will only add this.Only on a site that involves weapons can
we agree to disagree.If you tried to talk to any left winger
regarding this issue they would turn you into the "Gestopo"
SS men dressed as ATF would be knocking down your doors
scaring you and your family;"Where's it at ! Come on we know
you have one.We're going to lock up your family for EVER !"
Ok maybe that is a little over-reactive,but you must admit
that everyday swat teams and tactical teams practice invading
urban areas.Anyway as to the reason my brake is welded on
is here.I followed the directions of this company regarding
their brake as it's my luck that I always seem to get the guy
with the badge who's just had a fight with his wife that
morning and looks to jack up some one,any one.Paranoid ?
Yea I guess so,but I'm still alive, sorta...If you decide to
look at this site,they have a paragraph at the bottom
regarding their brake and the crime bill.

www.jpar15.com/customer.htm
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
wish me luck my cheaperthandirt.com black warrior double muzzle brake just came in the mail, and im going to install it in california, and hopefully i wont be taken out by a sharpshooter while driving to the range. The receipt SAYS MUZZLE BRAKE
 
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