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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just as a trivia question:

Does anybody know what Government Agencies use the Mini 14 as their issue weapons? I have heard the Mississippi Highway Patrol issues them to their Troopers, as well as many Nuclear Energy facilities and Correctional Agencies.

And another question? Of these Government Issue Mini 14's (I believe called the G Model) are they selective fire----say semi-auto and 3 rd. auto burst?

glynb

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For those who fight for it
Life has a meaning that the sheltered will neve know.

unknown U.S. Marine/ Khe Sanh
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some police departments issue a mini to be carried in the patrol cars. Sorta like the shotty they keep in the trunk.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Originally posted by tunedcivic
some police departments issue a mini to be carried in the patrol cars. Sorta like the shotty they keep in the trunk.
I was looking at the latest addition of S.W.A.T. magazine and lo and behold was a Ruger Ad on the front inside cover. They offer not only the Mini Government model, but a select auto fire version that has a folding stock and a flash suppressor. The G Model appeared just like the civilian version except it had the front sight mounted about half way up the barrel because of the flash suppressor at the end of the barrel.

glynb

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When those around you are losing their heads, open fire.
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i read somewhere that the US Marshall service uses the mini-14 as their issued 'long gun' not quite sure if this is true or not though.
 

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Texas Department of Public Safety (Highway Patrol) issues the standard stainless Mini 14 to Troopers. Texas Game Wardens are issued same standard stainless Mini's along with Remington 870 shotguns.
I don't know if the US Marshal's Service has the Mini on it's "approved" list. Marshal's may carry any pistol as long as it is on an approved list and carry approved ammo. Rifles are private purchased also. All weapons must be "legal" for purchase by any citizen. In other words no short barrels or full auto weapons. There are exceptions. Witness Protection teams may be issued "special weapons" for details. Shotguns can only be used with buckshot, no slugs.

WAR
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Originally posted by 1911greg
Why no slugs
The solid lead slug has tremendous velocity and big time penetration. This isn't a good idea for city use where a slug can go clean through a house and kill a bystander. A lot of city PD's don't want to use the .223 rifles for the same reason, however the .223 can be loaded with hollow point bullets that don't penetrate through people or walls, and are better than shotguns, even with buckshot, which spreads too fast and doesn't have pinpoint lead concentration at long distance.

Thanks everybody for your replies on this topic.

glynb:usa:
 

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I agree with the shotgun slug comments. Just recently someone locally discharged a shotgun with a slug in a residential area. The slug went easily through one of his livingroom windows, and then it penetrated his neighbor's house (two outside walls and three interior walls), then went through a bathroom window in the NEXT guy's house, bounced around in his bathroom off three walls and landed harmlessly in his bathroom sink of all places!

But question on the .223 hollowpoints:
A .223 HP won't go through a wall? News to me. Maybe a concrete wall, or a wall with several layers of drywall... But a single wall in a regular house? I would bet it would go through at least three interior walls (with drywall on both sides), don't you agree? Now, frangible .223 bullets would probably barely penetrate one regular wall with drywall on both sides. Maybe I should experiment on this...

I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm just thinking that even an HP .223 would penetrate walls pretty well. We all know an FMJ would penetrate quite far...

Any other opinions? Am I way off base here?
 

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The rage with the gullible pseudo tactical AR owners now days is how much their .223 round does not penetrate the typical urban house. Olympic Arms has a couple articles and the sheep read it and believe (I wonder if they just want to sell more guns...). I have done my own tests. They are easy to do. A .223 HP round FLYS through a wall. It will go through six sheets of 3/4 inch Plywood at 25 yds. Buckshot is stopped. If you are worried about penetration, I mean overpenetration, even a .223 is too much gun. A shotgun is the way to go.

It is SO simple to do your own test. But, most of the armchair, gun rag reading idiots believe everything in Guns and Ammo ect....
They are too lazy to check it out for themselves.

I like my Mini-14. But, I know the limitations of the round.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Dave,

I was under the impression that Govt. Agencies that use the .223 use a sort of fragmentation round that lessens the penetration of walls in a house.

Oh well, if I am wrong, I stand corrected. Thanks for the positive nature of your post.

glynb:usa:
 

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This would be known as a "Frangible" bullet, and yes, some govt. agencies are reportedly using them, but I'm sure not all of them are.

The frangibles are made with tin cores or some other soft sintered material, and numerous other core materials. I'm sure the list is pretty long. This technology is still in its infancy, and if you look on the web, you will find a number of different methods and design factors for them.

The basic principal is the same though - After a frangible hits a hard target, it disintegrates into powder, thus eliminating ricochets. The outer jacket remains somewhat intact, but lacks the inertia of the rest of the bullet, so it stops quickly as well. I'm sure it diminishes the penetration of the round significantly as well. Not sure how much, but I'd be willing to bet that 1 interior wall would slow it down a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thank you Satan 2655,

I thought I was correct because I had heard of some studies the FBI did in the late 90's using a soft tip, 50 grain bullet.

glynb:usa:
 

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Some police MAY use frangile ammo. However, the whole urban carbine rage revolves around the non-penetrating nature of a FMJ .223 round. That is pure garbage. I don't apologize for my opinionated view. What I object to is gun owners buying the views of gun magazines and gun shop gossip without actually doing the tests themselves.

The .223 round will easily overpenetrate a typical urban house. It will go right through it and possibly kill the 6 year old little girl next store. 00 buck will not do this. I PERSONALLY have done the test. You need to question everything you read. Your life and the life of innocent people are at stake. It is an easy test.

Urban carbine = $ for Armalite, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, ect.....

I still like my rifles. But, I know their limitations.
 

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I agree that the .223 round will penetrate much more than that what has been mentioned in some magazine articles. I personally watched a guy shoot clean through that thick piece of wood used for train tracks to rest on! Now this has been back in the early 90's sometime, but I think the round he used was American Eagle 50 gr. HP. If this round can penetrate that deep, what would a 55 gr. FMJ do? I know that sounds like a lot of penetration and I saw it with my own eyes. This is no sh*t! For details on the penetration capability of the .223 round, look back at some old articles with the military's description of the round when it was first replacing the 7.62 NATO. Read what it penetrated in their tests, then decide. It is impressive. A softpoint might, MIGHT, not be too bad. I would go with a load like the Hornady TAP round which has a polymer tip and was designed for use by police in urban settings. It fragments like varmint ammo on impact.

op-rod
 

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I used American Eagle 50 grain HP for some of my tests. Massive penetration. One test had me firing through six 3/4" pieces of plywood spaced one inch apart at 25 yards. .40 cal went right through it too. Oh ya, Magsafe ALSO penetrated all six boards. It is supposed to be low penetration!!!! Federal 00 buck was stopped in the 3rd or 4th board. I have not tested the polymer tipped rounds.

If you live in a highly urban area. Use a shotgun unless you have personally witnessed the results of your ammo. An innocent persons life could be at stake. Even if your shotgun misses, you have less of a chance, much less, of going through yours and your neighbors house with a stray round.

Sorry Bushmaster, .223 is not an urban round. It is an urban myth. Don't email me with the results of some article you read in SWAT magazine either. Unless you have done the tests, your opinion does not matter.
 

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I agree with Dave. Do some of your own tests. So simple and cheap to do. The .223 round is a penetrator. Period. Think of its kinetic energy at the muzzle and its cross-sectional area. Small bullet with a LOT of velocity - its gonna go through a lot of ****!
 

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I have to agree w/ both Dave & Satan. Without doing any formal testing, watching round after round penateate 3/4" of plywood (target) AND 10-12" of firewood (target prop) I'ts clear that .223 rounds are going to keep on truck'n through all sorts of building materials used in the typical house. I have been using FMJ, HPFMJ, & softpoints, dosen't seem to make a difference. I'm actually thinking of chopping wood with my Mini!:ar15:
Too bad too cause I live in a very urban area & got the Mini with self defense in mind (as an option) but I can tell you there's no way I'd fire the Mini in or around my house.

WTB: Mossberg 590 /Win. 870 pistol grip, Folding stock ;)
 

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My role for my rifles (Garand first, Mini second) is for when Chinese troops are invading, large scale urban riots are happening with multiple bad guys burning down my neighbor's houses. SHTF to the extreme. All bets are off on the "be kind to your neighbor" policy. Will this happen? Probably not. But, you never know. It doesn't hurt to be prepared for everything.

When things go bump in the night in my nice, peaceful suburban neighborhood, 00 buckshot is my informed choice.
 

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Have you tried any of the "low recoil tactical" buckshot being marketed? Considering firing inside (10-15 yards max) seems you may not need all that UMMMMPH behind the shot. And less danger to others.

I have heard of people loading 1-2 rounds of birdshot to be chambered first. Sorta' seems like you might as well use rocksalt.

Would a 1911 .45 be a good choice over 12ga or do you think the sound of the pump action is added bonus in the deterrent catagory? Better to discourage than to destroy if it's just a bump in the night. No?
 

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Birdshot as a deterrent sounds like a good idea. Put 5 rounds in the magazine, followed by 15-20 rounds of JHP, and if they aren't scared away by the 5 rounds of birdshot, they're dead.

I know CCI makes .22 birdshot shells. I wonder if anyone makes a .223 birdshot shell? Might be worth checking into. Might be worth starting a new business selling... ;)
 
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