[beefyz]

Was running low on some various powders i use on reloading a ruger mini 14
.223. Only thing available at the time was a 8lb keg of AA 2460.Was not my first choice of powder, but nothing else was available, and i was lucky to get that. Had never used 2460 before, but have loaded over 4 yrs for this mini. Had the recent AA data, plus a few other manuals, and came up with perameters from all between 22.6 - 25.1 using a 55gr. So i made up a box of 50 as follows; 10 each @ 24.5, 24.6, 24.7, 24.8, & 25. It only got better after that. With old eyes and iron sights @ 50 yds could do no wrong. 24.8 & 25 were the best, with 25 maybe getting the nod, but with this one weird observation. The first loading @ 24.5; 10rds fired/ejected as normal. ALL the next 4 batches fired as follows. First round fired, did not eject, had to manually eject the case. Same for rounds 2 & 3, then next seven as normal. This same pattern repeated itself in next 3 testings. One would think if these rds had been underpowered, or maybe just during the 24.5, i would have had this experience. But i don't think i was underpowered with any of these rounds and the accuracy was fantastic with all of them. Tried some different loads using the same clip and couldn't duplicate the condition . ??? Can't figure it. Anyone seen anything like this before. Only other times i have duplicated this occurence is when i had tested a few start loads that were too low to work the action.But as stated i was going up the ladder and shouldn't have run into this occurence. ?

 

[mwood]

New brass or used?

 

[Calif Mini]

Recent changes?

Besides reloading a new powder recipe load for your Mini, have you made any changes recently??

Have you had the gas block off recently? Notice any movement now? Reassembled correctly with the bushing in place so it will not move forward as the slide stops against it?

New buffers (although can't see how these could cause this problem) or possibly installed a new aftermarket firing pin. I have seen actions not cycling with the timing tail with to little radius on the corners. Another could be using cases that have a lacquer that wasn't removed during tumbling. Warms up and starts sticking. Guessing that if you have reloaded for your Mini for some time, you would have experienced this previously. As asked previously, are you using a different case - brand or changed the resizing in some way? Just trying to find the new influence here.

You mention no issue with the lowest powder but maybe increased pressure from there shows your Mini is possibly experiencing over pressure. Not familiar with AA 2460 so ???

It would seem that if you can actually notice a difference in function between 24.5 and 24.6, there is definitely something to discover. Other than the chamber is warm going into the second 10 rounds, it does not appear to be enough change to create this.

Please be sure to post any remedy you find that cures the cycling issue, as many could benefit from your testing.

 

[bai78]

I have to ask, are you certain that you shot the loads in that order and not reverse?

It does happen no matter how careful we label & separate.

 

[beefyz]

weird ?

Exactly right ??? Some occurence, huh. Can't figure it out.
Have reloaded about 3K rounds through this gun, no functioning problems, so i "know" it. No recent work or change in components except as noted below. In the past a few starting loads were to light and THEN and only then did i even fail to get auto pickup of next or subsequent rounds, until i bumped up load a bit. I notice this 2nd yr mini likes to be around near max. Was using it first time this year following last years full cleaning & storage. All rds fired before and after my testing loads functioned as usual and flawlessly. Brass was used and being reloaded for first time and was WW, IRONICALLY first time i have reloaded in this gun with WW brass. Do you think it could be the brass ? Usually using LCs from various years, I have some on 5th reload. Just happened to try this WW as it had been sized, tumbled, & ready to be reloaded just like always. Didn't think brass could be an issue. In all my reloading, M1, carbine, lever guns etc, never had an issue with one brand brass over another. But then again, even if brass, why just on first 3 rounds ? on 4 occasions ? and then next 7 go bang/eject/load as usual ? absolutely certain did not reverse order of testing loads. unless someone has better data then me, don't believe my data is wrong. and accuracy right out of the gate with all these loads over that loading range with a nice neat little pile at 4o'clock is reassuring. Ashamed to tell ya what i usually accept with this gun. Guess i should try some LC cases ?

 

[40nascar]

Sounds to me like your gas nozzle is partially plugged with carbon deposits, or you may a weak op-rod spring. Have there been any gunsmith modifications to your mini?

Another possibility, Have you trimmed your brass? after a few loadings, your cases can strecth enough to become jammed in the chamber. 223 brass will usually strecth more than 5.56 brass because 5.56 is annealed and 223 brass is not.

 

[JRobyn]

It doesn't explain all of the symptoms you are seeing, but IIRC, LC brass has slightly thicker walls and hence a tiny bit less capacity than other brass like WW. This would result in slightly lower pressures in WW brass than with LC using the identical recipe. So at the smallest test loads, you might see just slightly less vigorous cycling with WW than you do with LC.

 

[beefyz]

"Please be sure to post any remedy you find that cures the cycling issue, as many could benefit from your testing."


I think i may have solved the problem. As stated, 2460 wasn't one of my top choices to use in my mini. It was all that was available, period. Although Accurate shows many loads for it, they are mostly with the higher grainages and for a military application. Verifying my printed data from other manuals, with Accurates latest I did find specific loads using a 55 fmj @ 25.4 and 55sp @ 24.3 in the general .223 section. I was using the sp so according to Accurate i should be over at what i was testing at. I just substitued the sp for the fmj thinking as many i'm sure have done ; a 55gr = another 55 grain. So at loads i was testing varying from 24.3 through 25, they shot great but would not function the action reliabily. I stepped up to 25.2 and had no cycling problems whatsoever, BUT lost some of the great accuracy i had using the 24.8/25gr loads. Maybe with this powder, or just my mini, i'm stating that the cycling problem was solved just stepping up those 2 tenths of a grain.Have made a few up to test at 25.1. Have to ask though, why the 1.1 gr difference between using a fmj vs an sp ? Have read many times, here and elsewhere, bullet substitution in the same grainage is permitted UNLESS reloading data specifically states do not substitute components with a certain load. Naturally, checked cases for signs of pressure and everything seemed ok. 2460 does seem to be a bit dirtier than other choices, but it seems to work now and will hopefully get me through the shortages that are occuring now. Anyone care to comment on the grainage/load difference?

 

[magnomark]

After reading what I could find on this powder it seems to be a slower burning powder for a 308/7.62 nato round and responds to the charges differently in 223.Also as with most ball powders the use of magnum primers may help in the cycling of the action.It sounds like it is not getting enough pressure to cyle the action(50kpsi) reliably because of the slow burn effect,and the difference in bullet design(ogives,flat base or boattail,seating depth in cartridge,runout to lands,etc.)may be enough to change the cycling pressure of the action.

 

[dh1633pm]

I use AA2460 for 204 Ruger up through 308. I found for 204 Ruger in my CZ that at max load, my accuracy went down quickly. So I loaded about mid range for better accuracy. Seems to be about the same results as you. I loaded some for my 308 and they had the same impact location as my loads with IMR4895 (not that they two are anywhere near each other in load data or burn rates) and about the same group size. I got a bunch since my normal powers are all dried up. Have to use what you can find.

 

[SAN14]

In reloading, 1+1 doesn't always = 2 and 55gr vs. 55gr. doesn't = the same performance. Bullet designs are all different and the SP bullet you used probably has a different drag ratio going down the bbl.. Barrel condition could also cause various glitches in the norm.