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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well this may put one old saw to rest
The Romanian AKs - sold by Florida-based Century International Arms as the WASR-10 - have become the most common gun purchased in the United States since 2006 to be traced to crimes in Mexico, according to a review by the Center for Public Integrity, InSight, the Investigative Reporting Workshop at the American University School of Communication, PBS' FRONTLINE and the Romanian Centre for Investigative Journalism.
Romanian Weapons Modified in the US Become Scourge of Mexican Drug War - The Center for Public Integrity
 

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From the article:

Reports from the Justice Department's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) show that over the last four years, more than 500 of the WASR-10s imported into the United States by Century were recovered in Mexico after being purchased in the United States.
That's 125 per year, and the WASR's are the most common found in Mexico. Granted, 125 illegally smuggled weapons is 125 too many, but given the situation in Mexico, this seems like a very tiny drop in a very large bucket.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's 500 recovered; how many more are still in the hands of the cartels?

For a long time, many - myself included - were very skeptical of reports that a large percentage of illegal weapons in Mexico originate in the US. I don't remember the exact percentage cited, but it was very high, and I'm still doubtful of that figure. But that it's definitely happening in significant numbers is hard to deny now. It didn't make sense that cartels had to rely on US straw purchasers, for semi-autos, when unmodified AKs were thought to be cheaper and easy to obtain in bulk from other counties. But consider the implications of this:
An AK-47 sold in Mexico fetches three to four times its purchase price along the U.S. Southwest border, or between $1,200 and $1,600, according to the study. In the interior of Mexico, the authors found, the rifles are even more desirable, fetching a $2,000 to $4,000 premium above their purchase price.
I think this is terrible news, for any number of reasons. If there is any silver lining, it is that unmodified select-fire weapons aren't as easy for the cartels to obtain as we'd thought.
 

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I am still skeptical of claims that the US is totally to blame for the influx of illegal weapons into mexico. We have a corrupt third world government making these outlandish claims, and a american news media and government agencies more than happy to parrot so called "facts". These guys are criminals, they will take what they can get, if its not CAI kalashnacrap, it will be chinese AKMs. The only real way to stop these is to secure the border, and decriminalize the drugs in question, otherwise the "war on drugs" can drag on for another 30+ years.
 

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I am still skeptical of claims that the US is totally to blame for the influx of illegal weapons into mexico.
I think that you are correct on this,we are not totally to blame but we do have to accept some blame. This discussion is difficult here at Perfectunion because of the request by the admin to keep away from political discussion. Safe to say that I have little doubt we (USA) do have some hand in the problems, what and how much is at this time hard to define.
 

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The guns are only a symptom. The disease comes from the drugs and the billions of dollars made each year by selling them on the black market.

Any good doctor will tell you, "Treat the disease, not the symptoms".

Besides, I would bet a FAR greater percentage of firearms being used in crimes in Mexico are brought in from Central America, Russia or from Asia.
 

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I think that you are correct on this,we are not totally to blame but we do have to accept some blame. This discussion is difficult here at Perfectunion because of the request by the admin to keep away from political discussion. Safe to say that I have little doubt we (USA) do have some hand in the problems, what and how much is at this time hard to define.
Yes, the dealer in question was totally negligent in his actions, and others like him hurt the RTKB, but where is the BATF in all of this, when someone buys say 10+ of the SAME type firearm that doesnt throw a red flag worthy of atleast alittle investigation? Its not like this guns were bought black market in the US, BATF protocal was followed if you fill out the little yellow form, the BATF needs to accept part of the blame too.
 

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From the article:

That's 125 per year, and the WASR's are the most common found in Mexico. Granted, 125 illegally smuggled weapons is 125 too many, but given the situation in Mexico, this seems like a very tiny drop in a very large bucket.
the # of guns traced to mexican drug gangs that were purchased legally in US gun shops/shows/etc number in the thousands. this is a real problem. i'm not saying its the only problem in this mess, but definately a real problem that needs a solution asap. its obviously way too easy.
 

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if your point is they over exaggerated the % to sell mags, newspapers, you are probably right. nothing new.

statistics can be bent to support any argument in any way. so only 90% of the traceable guns submitted were traced to the US? do you still think thousands of guns in the hands of mexican gansters from the US is ok? i don't care if its only 17% of the guns involved in mexican drug crime....isn't that still WAY too much? it greatly disturbs me that they are getting guns legally in the US and selling them by the thousands to ruthless gangsters across the border. who cares about percentages....get this stopped! this is serious security issue to our border states!

all MO of course, i don't want to be combative at all. the issue just disturbs & angers me.
 

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Yes, the dealer in question was totally negligent in his actions, and others like him hurt the RTKB, but where is the BATF in all of this, when someone buys say 10+ of the SAME type firearm that doesnt throw a red flag worthy of atleast alittle investigation? Its not like this guns were bought black market in the US, BATF protocal was followed if you fill out the little yellow form, the BATF needs to accept part of the blame too.
thank you. i am a gun owner and believe in honest citizen's right to bear arms. however, i am firm believer in common sense as well. it makes no sense for someone to buy large bulk amounts of firearms, unless they are a gun shop or dealer. i saw an ariticle on a guy finally busted for selling firearms on the black market. he had purchased hundreds of firearms in one year. he would go to a gun store and buy 20-30 at once! he did this for many months before being arrested. he alone might have put a thousand guns in the hands of criminals. even if you are the wealthiest person in the world, it makes no sense to buy 20 guns at once! this just isn't good use of common sense, and it should make everyone (gun enthusiasts as well) very concerned. just my 2 cents of course.

if so many of these mexican gansters guns came from the US blackmarket, wel that's bad, but not as surprising. but bought legally in gun stores? very concerning imo.
 

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i read some above posts & want to apologize if my posts were too political in nature.

last thing i should care to discuss is politics on an awesome firearms board :D

actually, politics is usually the last thing i care to discuss period!
i am done here ;)
 

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if your point is they over exaggerated the % to sell mags, newspapers, you are probably right. nothing new.

statistics can be bent to support any argument in any way. so only 90% of the traceable guns submitted were traced to the US? do you still think thousands of guns in the hands of mexican gansters from the US is ok? i don't care if its only 17% of the guns involved in mexican drug crime....isn't that still WAY too much? it greatly disturbs me that they are getting guns legally in the US and selling them by the thousands to ruthless gangsters across the border. who cares about percentages....get this stopped! this is serious security issue to our border states!

all MO of course, i don't want to be combative at all. the issue just disturbs & angers me.
Any guns smuggled from the US to the mexican gangs are a problem. It is more disturbing to me to see the deserters from the mexican military arming the gangs with even more formidable weapons than AK's.
At some point in the near future our military will be drawn in just like it was in 1916.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
... where is the BATF in all of this, when someone buys say 10+ of the SAME type firearm that doesnt throw a red flag worthy of atleast alittle investigation? Its not like this guns were bought black market in the US, BATF protocal was followed if you fill out the little yellow form, the BATF needs to accept part of the blame too.
I don't understand; as it now stands, the ATF never hears about these multiple transactions, unless they're handguns. The ATF wants "emergency powers" to require border state FFL's transferring multiple long guns to fill out a form, which they would receive, but this is not yet in effect.
Obama Administration May Give ATF New Power to Fight Trafficking of U.S.... -- NEW YORK, Jan. 22, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --

I do not believe the FBI background check specifies the number of firearms sold, only the type (correct me if I'm wrong), and in Texas anyway, a CCL bypasses that altogether.

Point being that I don't think ATF has any way of finding out about these multiple sales of long guns. Am I mistaken?
 

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Yes, the dealer in question was totally negligent in his actions, and others like him hurt the RTKB, but where is the BATF in all of this, when someone buys say 10+ of the SAME type firearm that doesnt throw a red flag worthy of atleast alittle investigation? Its not like this guns were bought black market in the US, BATF protocal was followed if you fill out the little yellow form, the BATF needs to accept part of the blame too.
To rephase my comment about the ATF, they need to addmit that it is an utterly useless agency.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
While drug violence continues to spread in Mexico, White House officials have decided the situation doesn't rank as an "emergency" under federal rules, officials tell NBC News. The decision scuttles - at least for now - a controversial proposal requiring gun stores in four Southwest border states to report multiple sales of semiautomatic assault rifles and other long guns to authorities.
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"OMB determined after careful review that ATF's request did not satisfy the "emergency" exception under the statute and relevant regulations," Reilly wrote in an email to NBC. "We felt that it was important to move this notice of information collection through the standard review process to provide adequate time for the public to weigh in. Our objective is to ensure that any information collection in this area is as informed and effective as possible - and public comment is critical to that outcome."
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Mexico violence not an 'emergency,' White House says - U.S. news - Security - msnbc.com
 

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A major global black market arms dealer (ex-Russian Air Force officer) was recently convicted in a US court.

If the Mexican gangs do not charter freight planes as happens in Africa etc, then do they not know how to buy heaps of weapons on the black market, smuggled inside shipping containers into Mexican ports?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Good question. There probably is some of that, but it's possible today there isn't the ready supply of surplus Com bloc weaponry available on the black market there was ten and twenty years ago during Viktor Bout's heyday. People say the cartels could be buying weapons from Venezuela, but I doubt it. The last thing Chavez wants is to hand the US a ready made excuse to meddle some more. Think about it, what country wants their fingerprints on the kinds of violence perpetrated by the cartels? No one does, that's who.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Most of those "$50 African AKs" have seen decades of hard use and abuse. Maybe the cartels have enough real world experience to know better than to believe the hype about the AK's "indestructability." Just a guess.

That said, I hope soon for a more complete rundown on the totality of what's actually turning up in the cartels' cold dead hands. It would be interesting to know all of what they're really getting.
 
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