[Sgt Shellback]

The Last Round of the Day. Just a Standard Mini 14 with a new Muzzle Break as the only add-on.

Shooting 62 Grain Wolf Ammo at 100 Yards... (It requires extra cleaning but at 9 Cents a round....)

I'm a statistician so I dropped my hits into Excel and did some calculations for Standard Deviation and plotted a 99% Hit Probability based on the current Man (Me) and Machine (My Mini)used... I wanted a baseline to see how future Rifle enhancements and changes in my techniques might actually help...

I've got some adjusting to do obviously, but what's everyone think?

 

[bushwack]

Sgt---I would really like to see this same test done under the same conditions after a good trigger job.

Good shooting
Bushwack

 

[Sgt Shellback]

My next upgrade is going to be the Recoil Buffer though... ($$) Are a factor.

I'm not disatisfied with y groupings. I think with a mostly stock Mini and low grade ammo this isn't too bad... If I'm wrong please let me know!

The Mini is new to me but I shoot expert with my M-16 in the Iowa NG....

 

[fastang50]

Are the markings on that actual inches or is it an arbitrary distance per mark?

 

[Sgt Shellback]

They are actual Inches... I'm using a 12" by 12 in Square Sight in Target that has a one inch grid printed on it. Plotting it in Excel is easy when using the X & Y function of it's charting capability.

There's also a small 6" circle in the middle of the square paper that gives me an aiming point from 100 yards back.

I moved my sight 1 click to the left and 2 clicks up but haven't gotten a chance to try it out...

I'm trying to set it at 2" high so that it'll be zero out at 300 Yards... I think, and hope I'm doing the right thing.

I'm trying to determine if this is expected grouping with a stock rifle and low grade ammo or if I've got technique problems to work on... Plus I'm trying to follow my progress when I make changes.

BTW: If I've got technique problems nobody will be hurting my feelings by pointing it out... I'd appreciate the candor.

 

[Sgt Shellback]

One more thing...

All 21 shots are on the paper but the 99% probablity calculated indicates that if everything remains constant I'll miss the paper entirely 3 times out of every 100 rounds fired....

 

[special poop]

http://www.zediker.com/tubb/finalfinish.html

dude I bought this fire lapping system recently and completed the task this past weekend, for only like $28. I went to 1-2 in. groups as soon as I calmed down the breathing and stuff - I was way too excited. With my "old" mini 30 I'd get at least one round out of five in a wierd place, a flyer, kind of like your chart (and I'm pretty sure I have decent mechanics). After Final Finish they all landed in a nice tight group (for a mini). What's more it was consistent, I felt like a pro. Oh yeah, I think I remember reading in FM 23-10 that groups consistently right and high and low, sort of like yours, are a result of too much pull on the trigger (assuming your a righty). The stock mini trigger isn't exactly a Porsche, could be something to think about. Did you use a scope?

 

[djskit]

: If I've got technique problems nobody will be hurting my feelings by pointing it out... I'd appreciate the candor.

That depends on what your technique is.
We talking sand bags on a nice bench? Iron sights? or off hand standing on your head
IMHO - if it's iron sights with sandbags - that looks about right for Wolfe ammo.
Others have reccomended it - but the first upgrade you should do is a trigger job - without doing that it'd be like having a hot rod with little tiny wheels - or a killer stereo system with cruddy little speaks....you get the idea.

I took 2 classes too many of statistics in college and am pretty good on excel -
How tricky is it to set up that chart?

 

[special poop]

ps "statistically" speaking you have 9 of 21 shots that are 3 inches or greater off target (assuming your zeroed). That's at 100 yards. At 300 I bet that MOA falls off the map. Even on a mini, with cheap HP ammo, in no wind I'd think you can do better at 100 yards....you did ask. As I read on it sounds like you scope adjustment is a good one. keep at it, it's a weird little gun but it's a cool one. and get that Final Finish!

 

[cajungeo]

Hi sgt, there isn't enough given information to critique your groupage. I only use groups of 3 to get on target, I prefer to use groups of 5, for at least 5 groups, on different targets, then average to get a better idea on how; me, my rifle, and ammo are doing.

If your only mod thus far is a muzzle brake, you must be using iron sights. If you were using a scope it should be about 1/2 that group size. When working on a mod, or evaluating ammo you should use a bench rest, bipod, or at least a sandbag. The target practice comes later once you have tuned your rifle, with ammo it likes. Otherwise you will never know if its you, your rifle or your ammo.

Wheather you use iron sights or a scope a trigger job is highly recommended. A hard trigger can move your muzzle all over the place. A trigger job will greatly improve your group consistancy. I only paid $25 for my 3 1/2# trigger job with a combo deal with a gas busing kit for another $25 from Mike Knifong.

I don't mean to tell you how to shoot, as its hard to know what another shooter knows or dosen't know, ya know?

I have a target somewhere that analyzes your shots. Will see if I can dig it up, and post it.

Ok, I got this from westfork in our 10/22 forum, check out this target.http://www.sportshooter.com/improving/imag...ction_chart.gif

 

[Sgt Shellback]

I appreciate everyones input... Some of the info I missed: I don't use a scope (Standard Mini Sights not a Ranch) but I am rested on Sanbags....

The comment on the hard trigger pulls sounds about right now that you mention it... I'll see about doing the trigger job along with the bushing.

Can you really get 1-2" without a scope? Sounds to good to be consistent... I have shot some groups that tight but not repeatable for me yet.

 

[Sgt Shellback]

To setup my chart I used 1" grided target paper. Coordinates for it that I added are 0,0 (X,Y) at Target Center.... Right one is +1, Left one is -1 for X and Up one is +1 and down one is -1 for Y.

In Excel I recorded Windage Deviation from zero as my X Coordinate, and Elevation Deviation as my Y Coordinate. So if I missed 1" High and 1" to the right I'd Record in Excel:

ColA ColB
1 1

Adding a shot that is 2.5" low and and 1" to the right you would see:

ColA ColB
1 1
-2.5 1

And so on...

Then take Column A, which is Windage deviation, and plot a LINE Chart... But Format the Data Series Properties to only plot a point... Then Right Click and goto Data Source properties and you'll see a blank field for Y Coordinates (For Some Reason Excel never lets you add them at the same time). Click on that then highlite your Column B or Elevation deviation and presto you have your shot pattern plotted...

I Calcualted a Mean X & Y individually and added it as another data series with just one point so that I could see the Mean on the graph. Then I calculated 1 Standard Deviation for X & Y individually... Multiplied by 3 and added and substracted from the Mean of each for my 99% Probability Box... (Ploted as 6 Coordinates with the LINE property one this time... (6 Points because you gotta close the box.

If you'd like a template where all you have to do is add your shots in the Spreadsheet (Everything else will auto calc) EMAIL me at:

[email protected]

 

[cajungeo]

Sgt, when my eyes were young I shot an 8" group at 500 yds with peep sights on my m-14. Now I would be lucky to get an 8" group at 100 yds. Thats why I use a scope. I would say yes a consistant 1-2" groups at 100 yds with out a scope is out of reach for most mini shooters, and even with a scope, if you haven't tuned your mini, 5" groups are common. A trigger job, and gas bushing kit will help ya a lot. Save yor targets, and document each mod. so you can see how each mod pays off. I did, and it made me