I have read a lot of post about the accuracy of the mini 14 since I got my 580series with pencil barrel. Many say this rifle needs a strut but, I see that Gun Doc can get 1-2'' without the strut. His A package is a recoil buffer, bedding and gas bushing. Is a strut really needed?
To strut or not to strut? Gun Doc, uses no strut.
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As always (and especially with Minis...), every rifle is different.
GunDoc's work deals with different issues than a strut does. Recoil buffers help cut down on receiver abuse and damage to optics; bedding reduces the tendency of the receiver to "walk," and gas bushings help you keep your brass in the same time zone.
A strut, on the other hand, works (mainly) to stiffen the barrel, reducing harmonics and keeping everything aligned when the barrel gets hot. A secondary benefit is that it can act as a heat sink to help wick away the heat from the barrel.
IMO, go with GunDoc's work first. Then determine if you want to try squeezing that last little bit of accuracy out of your rifle...
GunDoc's work deals with different issues than a strut does. Recoil buffers help cut down on receiver abuse and damage to optics; bedding reduces the tendency of the receiver to "walk," and gas bushings help you keep your brass in the same time zone.
A strut, on the other hand, works (mainly) to stiffen the barrel, reducing harmonics and keeping everything aligned when the barrel gets hot. A secondary benefit is that it can act as a heat sink to help wick away the heat from the barrel.
IMO, go with GunDoc's work first. Then determine if you want to try squeezing that last little bit of accuracy out of your rifle...
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^^ what he said...
I would only add that my pencil barrel 580 was a good shooter (like Doc's) out of the box, but I cut it down and recrowned it to cut the prior groups in half, using inexpensive ammo. If I ever buy another pencil barrel Mini, I will follow the exact same plan right away.
1. Sparta stock with flip up sights and QD optic
2. 4.5lb trigger job by a pro
3. cut and recrown the barrel to 16.25"
4. thread the muzzle for a simple hybrid brake/comp like the Troy Medieval or SureFire
This will about double the cost of the Mini=14, but it will hold it's own against ANY AR after these changes, and will be way more reliable!
I would only add that my pencil barrel 580 was a good shooter (like Doc's) out of the box, but I cut it down and recrowned it to cut the prior groups in half, using inexpensive ammo. If I ever buy another pencil barrel Mini, I will follow the exact same plan right away.
1. Sparta stock with flip up sights and QD optic
2. 4.5lb trigger job by a pro
3. cut and recrown the barrel to 16.25"
4. thread the muzzle for a simple hybrid brake/comp like the Troy Medieval or SureFire
This will about double the cost of the Mini=14, but it will hold it's own against ANY AR after these changes, and will be way more reliable!
I think that the strut would be more beneficial after the barrel starts to warm up. My first 3 shots groups are tight.
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You can always sell it here at PU in the classifieds if it doesn't work out for you.
I don't know that they reduce actual recoil if we were to measure as such. It does however give the perception of less recoil as the buffer noticeably reduces the "clang 'n bang" of the op rod. The clang becomes a thud, if you will.
Its rather similar to installing a buffer in a Ruger 10/22 if you've ever worked with those rifles. Quiets the action operation a bit and the overall cycling just feels less harsh and mechanical.
Its rather similar to installing a buffer in a Ruger 10/22 if you've ever worked with those rifles. Quiets the action operation a bit and the overall cycling just feels less harsh and mechanical.
So, if I'm not mistaken, it sounds more like an AR instead of an M1?
Just pow pow pow instead of ching ching ching
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regardless of how well your mini shoots -there is one (IMHO) "must have" on Gundoc's menu:
the trigger job.
even if your mini is a MOA shooter (I'd like to see proof by the way
) if you are still shooting on the stock trigger - you are sooooooo missing out.
the difference between the creepy gritty stock +6 pound trigger
and the creepless silky smooth glass rod breaking 4 pound trigger that gundoc will send back to you. is night and day.
I had him do both my minis after hearing nothing but good stuff about it right here. and... it lives up to the hype.
I'd say that my mini triggers are now the best feeling triggers on any gun I've ever fired.
(not that I've had any experience with any super high end bench rest stuff or match equipment... but for affordable gear my mini triggers feel better than anything else i've tried)
the trigger job.
even if your mini is a MOA shooter (I'd like to see proof by the way
) if you are still shooting on the stock trigger - you are sooooooo missing out.the difference between the creepy gritty stock +6 pound trigger
and the creepless silky smooth glass rod breaking 4 pound trigger that gundoc will send back to you. is night and day.
I had him do both my minis after hearing nothing but good stuff about it right here. and... it lives up to the hype.
I'd say that my mini triggers are now the best feeling triggers on any gun I've ever fired.
(not that I've had any experience with any super high end bench rest stuff or match equipment... but for affordable gear my mini triggers feel better than anything else i've tried)
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More like POWthump POWthump
instead of POWching POWching
it takes the "ching" out of the recoil cycle
but the thump of the op rod is still there and quite discernible - it just doesn't ring out like it used to.
I think it's the higher frequency "ching" that really does a number on the optics.
with a blindfold on you'll still think it sounds like a mini... but you be wondering why it sounds "funny"
That's a pretty good description of the change.
This thread reminds me of callers on Car Talk trying to describe their automotive misfortunes. :lol:
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You know I allways thought a barrel that was free floating was better, and this clamps straight to it?? I never inspected one but if one of those clamps are out of tolerance from the other, in theory, it would torque your barrel causing worse accuracy. Now they say it has little or no effect on the thicker barrel mini's I wonder with a mechanical rest if it wouldn't get a little worse.
Now I think they look cool as hell, and wouldn't mind having one to try but I'd say you couldn't go wrong with gun docs treatment.
Now I think they look cool as hell, and wouldn't mind having one to try but I'd say you couldn't go wrong with gun docs treatment.
Free floated barrels are often the best way to go but certainly not always. Much depends upon the design of the rifle. There are single shot rifles and numerous rimfire rifle that are tuned by barrel contact points of varying pressure and location.
The Accu-Strut clamps are of a design that virtually eliminate any chance of binding if installed properly. While its true the older thin barrel Minis will reap the greatest benefit I cannot see a downside even when used on the newer heavier barrels (which are still rather light for a tactical rifle) when it comes to stabilising a hot barrel.
Gundoc's trigger work and bedding are mods that virtually all Minis will benefit from with very noticeable improvements. Every shooter, every rifle, every application will be more accurate and consistent. Certainly mods of the first order if within one's budget. That said, these mods address different issues as compared to barrel stabilizers.
My Mini program recommendation is as follows:
-Acquire the rifle, shoot the hell out of it and grow familiar with your long arm. This will help you decide upon stock selection, sight selection, optical sights, etc.
-Send the rifle and stock you've opted for to Gundoc for his Package A; bedding, trigger, reduced GP bushing and buffer.
-Shoot the hell outta the rifle again - now you can really dial things in and see what she'll do. Experiment with different factory loads or home-rolled cartridges. Field work as well as paper.
-Now you have enough information to properly evaluate your need, or lack thereof, for a barrel strut. Maybe you'll want one simply for appearance. Try taping a 5 or 6 oz metal tool implement to the foremost part of the stock and make sure the added weight is not going to be a bother. For some it is, for me its not a problem.
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Well said Holmes and great mini agenda. Exactly the rout I'm going now, but I'm gonna miss her being gone for 2 months to the docs.
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