The USMC's $22.5 Million Dollar Mistake
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I have to respectfully disagree. After 5 years in the USMC, I wouldn't feel under gunned with a 1911. A pistol is a backup, you bring a rifle to a gun fight. The 1911 was more than adequate for years, and in my, and a lot of Marines I knows opinions, it still is. This is the view of a none grunt, I was an Aerial observer on CH-46's, and carried an M9 more than I cared too. <_< I only wish this change had come earlier.
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7,312 Posts
I agree with Spots. The pistol is a back up weapon. The 1911 has been tried in the fire and not found wanting. Although the Sig is an excellent weapon. the 1911 meets their needs, they already have experience with the design, and parts are available everywhere. My son a Marine combat veteran has loved the 1911 ever since he was 12 and Grampa first list him shoot one. Although he says the recoil is a little light.
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8,795 Posts
jaysus! 5,650$ a whack! that's a bit high priced!
Have you ever tried to beat someone to death with a polymer framed handgun? I carry a M&P 9mm, however, I prefer the 1911 all day long. Its more natural for me to shoot and packs a wallop when you hit someone with it be it a round from the end of the barrel or a nice smack up the side of the head. 
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I beg to differ about most U.S. Military spec ops not using the 1911. The Corps has used them since 1911 and MARSOC (Marine Corps SPECIAL OPERATIONS) uses them: Not to mention I know many Spec ops guys that would prefer the 1911 over pistols such as the H&K USP and other guns like that.
: I beg to differ about most U.S. Military spec ops not using the 1911. The Corps has used them since 1911 and MARSOC (Marine Corps SPECIAL OPERATIONS) uses them
: Not to mention I know many Spec ops guys that would prefer the 1911 over pistols such as the H&K USP and other guns like that.Some may call me a liar but I never had a 1911 jam on me while in the Corps. Blindfolded I can probably still field strip and reassemble in under a minute. What is so complicated about them. They work and work in adverse conditions. Browning was asked to develop a pistol that would stop an enemy running toward you--and he did--and they do. 230 grains of slow moving lead sure beats the h--- out of 115 grains traveling much faster.
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I agree with USMC0341. Improvise,adapt, overcome. A steel framed 1911 makes a great club when your outta lead. And if it was good enough for Chesty it's goods enough for any fire eating, napalm p-----g Devil Dog with boots on the ground!
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37 Posts
I believe the mistake here was to allow, (if it is true), a company to charge the Government, (any branch), $5650.00 for a 1911 - heck, any sidearm for that matter!
My 2 cents only.
My 2 cents only.
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7,312 Posts
It is my understanding that the initial order is for just over 4,000 pistols. With the contract for up to 12,000 pistols. So the $22.5 million dollar contract equals about $1,875.00 each. Then the the price doesn't look so bad. We also don't know what else is included. Spares, magazines, tools, training and anything else.
http://borepatch.blogspot.com/2012/07/marine-corps-buying-4000-new-1911.html
http://borepatch.blogspot.com/2012/07/marine-corps-buying-4000-new-1911.html
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171 Posts
IMO the 1911 is a great defensive pistol, I have three of them. The mistake was for the US to adopt the 9mm some years ago. It may be my age, but I will never buy a polymer handgun. Getting a .38 Special S&W aluminum airweight for daily carry was enough new technology for me to swallow for one lifetime.
The high capacity polymer handguns have contributed to a "spray and pray" philosophy where more innocent bystanders are injured than the bad guys. NY city cops prove that almost every day.
I would rather take my steel cap and ball 1858 Remington to a gun fight than any polymer handgun. However, as someone here already said, taking a handgun to a gun fight is an idiot's endeavor. Always use a rifle or shotgun for any serious encounter.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Regards,
Richard
The high capacity polymer handguns have contributed to a "spray and pray" philosophy where more innocent bystanders are injured than the bad guys. NY city cops prove that almost every day.
I would rather take my steel cap and ball 1858 Remington to a gun fight than any polymer handgun. However, as someone here already said, taking a handgun to a gun fight is an idiot's endeavor. Always use a rifle or shotgun for any serious encounter.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Regards,
Richard
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37 Posts
....and there ya go. Like I said, if it was true. And I was REALLY skeptical of that individual price of over $5,000.00 each - even with support equipment. Thanks for the info.
The 1911 has never been a mistake - IMO.
Robert
Interesting.
Some fat ass who would stroke out before getting to the front lines is lecturing the Marines, or for that matter any armed service about their choice of arms/side arms.
The FNX sucks with their magazine choice. It has a stub/nub at the front that has to ride in a track in the mag well. Also that nub has a habit of catching in nylon ammo pouches and digging ruts into kydex ammo pouches. I watched a guy on the range loose this grip trying to rip out his mag that was caught in his nylon gear and drop his mag.
I would carry and use a 1911 in a heartbeat on my upcoming deployment if allowed. Hell, I would even by/use my own if allowed. Nothing mean business / will stop a fight faster than the 1911 / .45 acp combo.
Grim
Some fat ass who would stroke out before getting to the front lines is lecturing the Marines, or for that matter any armed service about their choice of arms/side arms.
The FNX sucks with their magazine choice. It has a stub/nub at the front that has to ride in a track in the mag well. Also that nub has a habit of catching in nylon ammo pouches and digging ruts into kydex ammo pouches. I watched a guy on the range loose this grip trying to rip out his mag that was caught in his nylon gear and drop his mag.
I would carry and use a 1911 in a heartbeat on my upcoming deployment if allowed. Hell, I would even by/use my own if allowed. Nothing mean business / will stop a fight faster than the 1911 / .45 acp combo.
Grim
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1,713 Posts
Is the 1911 on of the best choices for a combat handgun today? To be honest, probably not.
I do not claim to be an expert on the 1911, I bought my first 1911 only a year ago.
But what I can tell you, my Remington 1911 R1 had more malfunctions in its first 100 rounds then my Beretta 92F had in 25 years. I bought my Beretta 92F in January 1989. There were weekends when I would fire 1,000 - 2,000 9mm through that Beretta and not have a single malfunction.
Why should I put my faith in a handgun that had around a 10% malfunction rate right out of the box?
7 rounds VS 15 rounds aside, a handgun is only useful if it works, and a lot of the current 1911s on the market today are not reliable.
To go along with the opening post, I would like to add this video by James Yeager.
I do not claim to be an expert on the 1911, I bought my first 1911 only a year ago.
But what I can tell you, my Remington 1911 R1 had more malfunctions in its first 100 rounds then my Beretta 92F had in 25 years. I bought my Beretta 92F in January 1989. There were weekends when I would fire 1,000 - 2,000 9mm through that Beretta and not have a single malfunction.
Why should I put my faith in a handgun that had around a 10% malfunction rate right out of the box?
7 rounds VS 15 rounds aside, a handgun is only useful if it works, and a lot of the current 1911s on the market today are not reliable.
To go along with the opening post, I would like to add this video by James Yeager.
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99 Posts
I was listening until you posted that blowhard..... My Springfield Armory 1911 hasn't had a single malfunction in 1500 rounds. I clean it, lube it and feed it decent ammo and it has never let me down. The 1911 design is one of the most battle proven designs in history and from what I have found, one that malfunctions regularly is the exception not the norm. But your experince may vary. Btw I probably wouldn't be taking advice from a man who post videos threating to kill people that gets his concealed carry permit revoked. Not to mention being on of the least respected men in the contractor community.
Sent from behind my anvil in ye olde smithy
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There are some reliable 1911 manufacturers out there.
But why should a consumer pay the high price for a 1911, when they can get a reliable 45acp in glock, springfield XD or sig sauer?
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Because there are always different strokes for different folks
I'm not saying I think the 1911 is for everyone, no handgun is, though there are budget 1911's that run like a swiss watch.. I'm simply saying that I don't see it as a smart move to completely discredit a 1911 as a combat handgun when it has proven itself in 4 major wars, and still continues to prove itself in the hands of some operators.
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I completely agree with you. The 1911 should not be discredited.Because there are always different strokes for different folks
However, and as James points out in his video, gun companies have gone from skilled craftsman to mass production.
In the quest for profits, I think something happened that affected the reliability of the 1911.
Shooting my Remington 1911 R1 is a dream. The recoil and trigger pull are a lot smoother then the double action 9mms. The grip of the 1911 is more comfortable then the double stack 9mm Beretta.
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Good point you make. Sometimes a new gun takes a while to shake out. My friend spent three months on the initial R11 production. He ran ammo through each before they went out the door. Said he never thought in his entire life that he would be tired of shooting.
The Beretta 92F in use by the Marines (my son carried one in Iraq and Afghanistan) and last week in Georgia (training exercise). They have to keep track of each round they shoot out of them due to slide issues.
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