[cqbinkalifornia]

Look at the XD. Its kind of a Glock ripoff, with a grip safety, thats made in Croatia. I can see your point. Its kind of strange how made in USA vs. made in Outer Mongolia are determined.

 

[p35bhp55]

As I understood it the XD was already built and Springfield ordered some mods and then took over marketing them in the states. We have the XD 9 and "so far so good". I would prefer American but have never liked the S&W autos and the Rugers are just too damn ugly.

 

[wlhawk]

My Glock was made in Austria and my XD was made in Croatia. My SA pistols have parts from Brazil but were built in Geneseo, IL. All of them have performed 100% out of the box.

 

[MHBM14]

I have a Springfield Mil-spec 1911 .45acp It has the green armory kote finish. I have fired right at 1000 rds through it and it has been flawless. It is just as accurate as my friends kimber. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles but it has proven to be a good,reliable pistol for self defense. I would not hesitate to carry it in a life and death situation even though I have 2 glocks,1 xd40, Kahr .40. My gun was made in 2005 and maybe they are "clunkers" if made after that but mine is not.

 

[longrifle]

springfield 1911

I saw your made in brazil post, and I also have a springfield 1911 mill spec. quick story. mine was not shooting accuractly, so I called them, they said to send it back on their dime. springfield replaced the barrel, adjusted the trigger, new front sight, barrel bushing, adjusted the rear sight. this pistol works like it should. the people at springfield "MADE IT HAPPEN" and now I love my 1911. I would do business with springfield again. there effort ment alot to me. I hope this helps you.

Hi all,

I posted this on another site, but I would really like to get as many opinions as I can. I know this may seem lame to some, but bear with me as I am kind of new to pistols.

First, I just bought a Springfield Armory 1911 "loaded" model pistol. It had all of the bells and whistles except an adjustable sight. I was fairly happy with my purchase until I got home. I was logging the serial number down in my log book as I do with all of my guns and there it was. In big huge letters it was stamped, "MADE IN BRAZIL". I nearly fainted. I thought Springfield Armory was a well respected American gun maker from Illinois, but here in my hand was something different. After staring at the wall for a minute or two, I supposed I came back to a conscious state and looked again at the frame. As my eyes drifted toward where I had thought I had seen the name of a foreign country stamped on my new pistol, I chuckled to my self for thinking such a thing. But it happened again, only this time, it seemed more prominantly marked. Brazil. I though for a minute I had brought home the wrong pistol so I checked the slide and the name of the manufacturer. Sure enough, it said Springfield Armory. Without having to look again at the frame, (the letters seemed to be getting bigger, I kid you not) MADE IN BRAZIL was stamped and was getting bigger. Somehow, I bought an American pistol that was made in Brazil! Surely there had to be a mistake I thought. I checked their web site and looked at each and every pistol they show and sure enough, none say anything about Brazil. I emailed the company and received a quick (albeit curt) response that simply said that "all of our frames and slides are forged in Brazil and sent here for fitting and assembly. If a pistol is more than 50% made in Brazil, it is stamped as such". Ok I'm sorry about the long winded rant( I do feel a little better though), but once again, I thought I was buying an American made pistol. So here (finally) is the first question. Do I have a right to be ticked off?

The second and third questions have to do with Colt pistols. Since I feel was burned by, taken advantage of and a victim of false advertising by Springfield Armory, I think I am going to cut my losses on the pistol and buy a gold cup. So my second question is, What is the difference in accuracy potential between a Series 70 and a Series 80 pistol? Question number 3 is, What is a Gold Cup "Trophy" model and is it better than the other Gold Cup models?

Thanks in advance.

Doug Gordon

 

[arejaye]

Brazilan Springfields

I know how you feel buying a gun you THOUGHT was US made only to find it was made in another country. I recently bought a full sized 1911A1, my first handgun in a couple decades with the last one I owned also not being made in the US. The last one was a Llama and despite all the bad mouthing I got about the guns jamming, etc., I never had a problem with it except for a single jam at the range from a box of reloads made and sold on sight. They admitted it was the shell and NOT the gun being the culprit. As for the Springfield, I read tons of reviews before I decided to buy but never read much, if anything, about the Brazil issue. When it was discovered and I recovered from a little shock, I talked to a couple gunsmiths in different cities and was basically told there were Springfields made in the US and Springfields made in Brazil and even that parts were made in one place and the gun itself assembled in the other country. Confused by now? I still am too, but I was also told by both 'smiths that the Brazilian models were actually a better gun(fit, finish and reliability) compared to it's US brother. I was also told that if I wanted a 100% US made gun, be prepared to spend SEVERAL hundreds of dollars more for probably a lesser made gun with of course certain exceptions at twice the price or more. Most of us can't afford those, and even if I could I'd be scared to actually carry it and risk a deep scratch or some other accidental catastrophe...at least in MY mind. It'd most likely stay in a glass box to be seen and not used. lol The Springfield, so far, has been flawless in it's operation and I couldn't be happier with it and especially the price. Most of the people on YouTube that actually know guns instead of just the talking heads you'll see on there just for "face time', have Springfields almost constantly listed in the top 5 makes of 1911s for under $1000, and we all know there are a TON of makers of 1911s. I paid less than half that for mine, and to top it off, the local gunsmith(not one of the two mentioned above) offered to buy it from me the first time he held it and I let him run a couple mags through it. He was that impressed with it's quality and groupings on the short 25 yard range out back of my house. That makes me even happier with the gun. He told me to give him a price on it and I told him I'd let him know in a decade or 100,000 more rounds, whichever came first. Hold on to your Springfield 'cause unless you paid WAY too much for it, you're far from having been ripped off, and I've heard that the company has an excellent customer relations if you should ever have a problem, like one guy said the adjustable rear sight on his had started working slightly loose, sent the gun to the company and not only did they fix the sight issue, they put in a new rail spring, replaced the original grips with new ones and completely stripped it down and cleaned it for him...no charge. She's a keeper!

 

[Phish]

Hot man! Resurrection of an very old post but I never ever had a bad Springfield Armory 1911 and do have full confidence in protection of my family lives regardless.

 

[Legion489]

Wow. That is all I can say: wow. The amount of misinformation, disinformation and just missing in this thread is amazing.

Since I own or owned just about everything, and often two or three of each at one time or the other, and know many famous pistolsmiths (some of whom do not want any more publicity. At my club is one nationally known pistolsmith who has so much business he threatened to sue SOF if they ran any more articles on him as he is retiring and still has years of guns waiting).

Yes, Springfield Armory 1911s are made (80% frames and slides) in Brazil, always were. If anyone though they were made here go read the SA web site. The 80% frames and slides are finished here.

SA 1911s are good guns. As one of those rotten gun writers, I have tried SA 1911s (they are just down the road, as is Brownells, Les Baer, and others), and had no "soldiered barrels" (whatever that is). All of them have worked fine and felt good in the hand.

Philippine 1911s are pretty good. I bought a Century Arms Shooters Arms 1911 and guess what? It came with a ticket that everyone who working on the gun had to sign off on. It also never jammed or malfunctioned and has the BEST trigger pull on any production 1911 I have ever seen, as good as most trigger jobs by name smiths.

Taurus 1911. Spent $450 for it retail. Stainless .38 Super and never jammed or malfed yet. Admittedly it was one of the limited editions with gold trim all over, that never sold, but a great gun!

Kimber. Trash. Yes, I said TRASH! If I mentioned who (or what) actually owns it I would be attacked as a "bigot", but go look it up for yourself and see if I am wrong. Ordered one for a Christmas present ($800 dealer) and it was total garbage. Oh it LOOKED GREAT in the box, but that was all id did! The slide was s-m-o-o-t-h. The trigger pull how ever was totally off the charts. When I did a trigger job on it I got it down to a measured (yes, MEASURED) 37 lbs. FINALLY got a decent pull out of it. Then it wouldn't feed (bad mag. EVERY Kimber mag I have tried has been junk) and wouldn't extract (no hook cut in the extractor!). FULL of burrs, covered with machine marks inside and out. Rusts at a harsh look, had to keep it in an oil bath to keep it from rusting while working on it (ever try telling someone that their $800 pistol is junk and the factory is telling you months to fix?!). Yes, really. No one can tell me that gun was ever test fired before leaving the factory! Call any decent pistol smith and ask what they think of the Kimber and be prepared to get an ear full! Everyone I talked to hates them, but doesn't always tell people that, if you want one they will rebuild it but will tell you to buy a Springfield Armory in the future.

Bought an Auto-Ord frame to build a 1911 on. Yes, FULL of burrs and sharp edges, but worked up very nicely, as good as anything out there.

In the mid-late 1970s Colt 1911s were $200 dealer. Bought them buy the dozen and they were good guns but the "feel" varied widely. Drove me crazy why until I measured every single thing and figured it out. Some of the new Colt 1911s don't impress me but haven't shot many lately.

At my club a guy showed up with a $2500 custom 1911 from the guy in Arkansas that gets all the play. LOOKED NICE! DIDN'T WORK! It would not feed ANY make or brand of ANY factory ammo, with ANY type of bullet, with ANY magazine, the one supplied or the other 14 different brands tried. Want to tell me how that guy test fired each and every pistol before it goes out the door?!
OK, so $2500 is "low end" for a "custom" 1911, but the first thing I expect is for the gun to work!

Les Baer is just down the road from me. All I hear is guns are coming back due to "less than suitable finish inside and out". Some of them do look rough!

Got to go. YMMV.

 

[nickndfl]

Bersas are made in Brazil and they are okay and cheap. As long as the slide doesn't read Made in China or Hencho en Mexico you should be fine.

 

[Legion489]

Actually the Norinco 1911s were as good, and in many cases better, than most of what is out there (far better than Kimbers at any rate) and many custom smiths loved them. Good steel, properly heat treated and usually very reliable right out of the box, they beat the snot out of a lot of 1911s that the gun rags just swoon over, and were priced right. If you see one at a reasonable price, grab it.

 

[ifishbaja]

Wow, talk about digging up bones. I started this a looooong time ago. Nice to see people still have feelings, one way or another about the ole "Switcharoo". Here is my pistol update. I bought a Colt Defender and liked it very much. So much so that I bought a Colt Commander, though I sent it out for Novak sights to be put on it and had a little trigger work done to it. I liked them so much, and had no issues with them that I dumped the Brazillian and bought a Gold Cup. I am completely with my little (stable?) of Colt, all American pistols. All shoot great and are not hard to look at either.

 

[Phish]

I agree with the Kimber resentment, they look nice and but the fools who buy them have nothing but problems. Taurus 1911's stink also as their extractors are so fragile that they need replaced after 100 or less rounds if it get that far. LOL

 

[Lone Gunman]

Hi all,

I posted this on another site, but I would really like to get as many opinions as I can. I know this may seem lame to some, but bear with me as I am kind of new to pistols.

First, I just bought a Springfield Armory 1911 "loaded" model pistol. It had all of the bells and whistles except an adjustable sight. I was fairly happy with my purchase until I got home.

I was logging the serial number down in my log book as I do with all of my guns and there it was. In big huge letters it was stamped, "MADE IN BRAZIL". I nearly fainted. I thought Springfield Armory was a well respected American gun maker from Illinois, but here in my hand was something different.

After staring at the wall for a minute or two, I supposed I came back to a conscious state and looked again at the frame. As my eyes drifted toward where I had thought I had seen the name of a foreign country stamped on my new pistol, I chuckled to my self for thinking such a thing; but, it happened again, only this time, it seemed more prominantly (sic) marked, "Brazil" (Ed.).

I though for a minute I had brought home the wrong pistol so I checked the slide and the name of the manufacturer. Sure enough, it said Springfield Armory. Without having to look again at the frame, (the letters seemed to be getting bigger, I kid you not) MADE IN BRAZIL was stamped and was getting bigger.

Somehow, I bought an American pistol that was made in Brazil! Surely there had to be a mistake I thought. I checked their web site and looked at each and every pistol they show and sure enough, none say anything about Brazil.

I emailed the company and received a quick (albeit curt) response that simply said that "all of our frames and slides are forged in Brazil and sent here for fitting and assembly. If a pistol is more than 50% made in Brazil, it is stamped as such".

Ok I'm sorry about the long winded rant; (I do feel a little better though.) but, once again, I thought I was buying an American made pistol. So here (finally) is the first question:

Do I have a right to be ticked off?

The second and third questions have to do with Colt pistols: Since I feel (I)(Ed.) was burned by (being)(Ed.) taken advantage of and a victim of false advertising by Springfield Armory, I think I am going to cut my losses on the pistol and buy a gold cup.

So my second question is, What is the difference in accuracy potential between a Series 70 and a Series 80 pistol?

Question number 3 is, What is a Gold Cup "Trophy" model and is it better than the other Gold Cup models?

Thanks in advance.

Doug Gordon

Ahh, Doug, you just gave me a wicked headache! That post of yours is a real, 'literary bummer' to have to read through; so, before attempting to answer your questions, I (largely) cleaned it up.

(Feel free to copy and paste my rewrite into your original literary abortion - OK!)

Now, for Question #1: No, I do not think you have any right to be ticked off. What for? Just because YOU didn't realize that Springfield Armory has been outsourcing MANY of their gun parts to IMBEL (Indústria de Material Bélico do Brasil) in Brazil does NOT mean that thousands of other gun owner/purchasers haven't been aware of this practice for (What?), in my own case, more than a decade now.

Are you aware that IMBEL is one of the most highly regarded gun and gun parts manufacturers in the world? Are you aware that your new Springfield Armory pistol comes with A LIFETIME GUARANTEE? It does! (Glock, by the way, also has a large Brazilian factory that serves all of South America; and, as we all know: A Glock is a Glock is a Glock!)

What are you going to complain about next? The fact that your ejector is (probably) epoxied in place rather than mechanically fit? Springfield has been epoxying a large percentage of their ejectors into their frames for, at least, the past decade. It was a big online brouhaha when they first started doing it; but, to this day, all of them seem to work just fine! (Modern epoxies can be very tough, and they last for a long time.)

Let me tell you something else: Some of the most reliable 45 autos made today are coming out of the Philippines and Indonesia - Better 1911's than much of what is made here! (I've seen them put very expensive Kimbers to shame!)

Suggest you get over it, Man; nobody screwed you! (Have you heard any of the recent complaints about several of the primo American 1911 manufacturers, yet? They're out there!) I'll bet you could put 4 or 5 thousand rounds through your new Springfield pistol before you even have to tune the springs; and with 1911's - including the $4 to $5 thousand dollar pistols I used to own - if you shoot them often enough then you better know how to do things like tune the springs because, sooner or later, you're going to need to know how to do this.

Would it also shock you to discover that your new, 'Brazilian' 1911 is, quite possibly, tighter and better made than a lot of what I've seen come out of the Colt factory? (Well, I have!) I mean, for practicality's sake, I carry a Glock pistol; but at the same time I hate Nazis; and I'm keenly aware that Gaston Glock once served in the Wehrmacht; but, still, here I am carrying a German pistol.*

Question #2 about accuracy differences between Series 70, and Series 80 pistols? There isn't any! Series 70's simply have somewhat smoother operating, and mechanically simpler triggers on them. In the hands of a competent pistolero either series will shoot well.

Question #3: I think any of the Colt Custom Shop pistols are, at the present time, some of the best values in the American 1911 marketplace. (Which is how I ended up owning as many as five of them at one time.)

In fact I originally got into cheap (but usually functional) Glock pistols because - in the event that I ever actually had to use it - I didn't want to risk having to surrender one of my Behlert, Gold Cup, Mark IV's to the, 'not so tender mercies' of a cold, damp, police evidence locker!

* Please don't anybody give me a, 'song and dance' about Glock being an Austrian company. As far as I'm concerned, 'Austria' is just another way to spell, 'Germany' with an, 'A'.

(Besides we, all, know what nationality Adolf was - Right! - and, in case it's slipped by anyone, stop a moment and look up the meaning of the name, 'Deutsch Wagram' (Glock's hometown). Surprised?

 

[Phish]

I agree to a point Colt is just abad as Kimber! I have seen a lot better quality made 1911's that are produced overseas in much better than Colt. You are only paying for the name itself and that is all you getting. Kimbers is nothing but the same but worse.....whoopiebigdoda!!

 

[Legion489]

Sorry Lone Gunman, he has every "right to be ticked off". It flies in the face of lib-tardism to tell someone to "man-up", because, let's face it, you can be EITHER a man or a lib-tard, but not both. Some claim "they can too", but much like a working Lee LoadMaster or Kimber magazine, it has never happened when I was standing there to see it. Amazing how often I hear they can/do but can't when eyes are laid on them.

Anyway I think that it is in the Constitution (although the dozen or so times I read it I couldn't find it, much like the right to murder babies, sit on your ass and suck up tax monies, free college education, screw over vets so illegals can get benefits, etc.) to be offended for any reason or just because you fail to read the web site, failed to inspect the gun at the shop, or your pick of prez failed.

At least be happy he has a 1911 at all. And by the way, I agree with you about the cops stealing guns. Knew cops who stole guns (one ended up "driving off" the ferry in the middle of the river on his way to his private island and drowned soon after he was caught). Friend had a legal full auto Thompson stolen in a home robbery. Yup, you guessed it, the BATF found it in a cop's locker months later. Another friend had a home invasion and, again, all his stolen guns were found in a cop's locker by the BATF months later. The Tama Co., IA sheriff was caught stealing guns out of the evidence room and selling them. No guns to steal? No problem! Just go to the impound and steal cars! The list could go on. The point is, NO high end guns go to the smelter, just a like amount of scrap steel and the gun ends up in a cop's locker 99 times out of a 100. The other one is where it ends up in a collector's locker.

 

[Lone Gunman]

Yeah, 'the wisdom of old age' - Right guys!