[voruzon]

I see a lot of strange people at the range since I started shooting.

One guy put a HUGE 50mm scope on his Mini-30 (had to remove the handguard to fit it) - did not want to hear about a recoil buffer or bushing kit, muzzle brake or bedding. How far can you shoot with a Mini-30 to require a scope over 12x?

Another nice guy cuts off his AR-15s barrel to 14 inches - reducing the effective range to about 20 yards (the M193-type bullet does not fragment below 2700 feet/sec as fiasco in Mogadishu amply demonstrated) and making bullet drop noticeable even shifting from 25 to 50 yards - apparently to make a close-quarters SWAT-type weapon, a vicious accountant such as he is...

Then he has a 2 inch muzzle brake soldered to get back withing legal length and counteract the forces of vicious recoil AR-15 in .223 is famous for on his fragile 180-200lb frame.

Then he installs an optical 4x combat sight worth $800 that does not allow him to see squat at close range - as we've said the rifle is useless at longer range anyway.

And attaches a bipod to make shooting at 20 yards easier.

If I ever have to face an enemy with this guy at my side as a part of some militia or a self-defence group, my only consolation is that some sniper will target him first with his evil wicked-looking AR-15 and leave me with my inoffensive Mini alone...

Oh, baby...

V.

 

[Geno]

V-man you said it. Mini 30 just does not cut it after 300 yards so I do not even have a scope on mine. You will probably find these weapons on sale at the local gun shop after they realize that they ruined them and traded them on something else.

 

[mikr]

In regards to shorter barrel lengths:

From http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys.../ground/m16.htm

"The M4/M4A1 5.56mm Carbine is a lightweight, gas operated, air cooled, magazine fed, selective rate, shoulder fired weapon with a collapsible stock. A shortened variant of the M16A2 rifle, the M4 provides the individual soldier operating in close quarters the capability to engage targets at extended range with accurate, lethal fire. The M4 Carbine achieves over 80% commonality with the M16A2 Rifle and will replace all M3 .45 caliber submachine guns and selected M9 pistols and M16 rifle series.

After the military conflicts in Panama, the Persian Gulf and Somalia, the need for a shorter version of the M16A2 again appeared. Colt engineers shortened the barrel back to 14.5", contoured the barrel to mount the M203 grenade launcher, and added a collapsible, sliding buttstock. They also created a new upper receiver using a modular sight mounting system for use on a sub-variant. In August 1994, both variations were adopted. The United States Carbine, Caliber 5.56mm NATO, M4 uses the new barrel and collapsible buttstock, but was first issued with the standard M16A2 upper receiver and sights to streamline production, though it now is made with the new modular upper receiver. "

Some people like copying mil-issue firearms and some have an affinity for M4geries, which have made kills out to 300M, but does have less effective range than an A2. I am sure there are many a Marine who would be glad to demonstrate for you that they are indeed effective well past 20 yards

 

[voruzon]

In Mogadishu the ambushed soldiers - some of whom were armed with 11.5 inch barrelled CAR rifles registered multiple hits on the enemies which were able to get back to their buddies and direct their attention to now disclosed positions.

Without a devastating effect of fragmentation, the .223 FMJ wound is just like a thick needle puncture. Sure, it can kill a person - but not necessarily fast enough to prevent him from causing trouble.

The heck with lengh - if you think you neet 16" - get it. But replacing 2" of the bull barrel with a muzzle brake on a .223 weapon? A weapon that is never going to shoot full-auto at that?

miko

 

[mikr]

The complaint from the Mog if you go by Mark Bowden's account compiled by the vets was with M855 and its' steel penetrator, and perceived lack of fragmentation, not the barrel length of the rifle.

 

[voruzon]

Right, but 62grn M855 is longer than 55grn M193 - which increases breaking forces when it moves sidewise.
Also it's center of gravity is further back because steel penetrator upfront is less dense than led - so it tends to tumble even more that M193.

So it has better fragmentation characteristics than M193 at the same velocity.
Of course from any given barrel the velocity of M855 is lower than M193 and if the barrel is cut too much, the velocity drops below critical 2700fps withing a couple dozen yards. It will tumble but not fragment and leave a neat tiny hole with some increase in diameter where it tumbled and started moving bottom first. That was the source of complaints of "inferior fragmentation" - which is directly caused by the insufficient barrel length.

At the distances beyong 15-20 yards those with CARs might have been as well armed with 22lr rifles.

Anyway, I understand a person's desire to shorten the barel for "indoor" close-range defensive use. But in combination with a long-range sight that hinders movement and visibility and a muzzle brake (not even a flashider) and bipod the whole combo does not make much sense. And it cost him a lot of money - soldered brake, military combat sight, etc.

V.

 

[nellybell]

Well I have a scope on my mini-14 simply for the fact, I can't read
the writing on the wall...this my ex-spouse keeps informing me as
I hand over yet another alimony ck..