[liberty arms]

I need some guidance.

I have a pre-ban Mini-14 Ranch, full stock. Installed a Leupold vXII scope with ruger rings.

Regardless of weather I use the iron sights or the scope I am shooting way off the target.

I have used a bore sight collomator to zero the scope in on the bench, and I am shooting way low, both hand held and in a shooting vice, at 100 & 50. Adjusting at the range I am going full travel on the scope adjustments, with minor improvements, but not enought to get it on the paper when aimed at dead center. I am seeing the same results with the iron sights.

I have moved to the 25 just to see if its the shooter or the gun! At the same distance with my AR-15 I can shoot 2-3" groups every time, the shorter diatance makes no diff.

What are the chances the upper is out of line with the barrell?

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated! I hope to avoid a trip to the gunsmith!

 

[Billc]

Due to the fact that the same problem is evident with both iron and scope sights my first action would be to glass the action and trigger group to eliminate any possible movement (both between the trigger group and the action and the action and the stock). At 25 yards, off rest, any rifle should offer one ragged hole--anything less is either a tuning or mechanical problem--excluding the triggerperson. Reviewing the board seems to confirm that there are two major factors in tuneup, one being glassing and two a muzzle brake.
While I do not understand why a muzzlebrake would be so significant (not a .300mag) it does seem to make a difference. It has been my experience that once past the bedding and trigger issues it doesn't get any better without experimenting with handloading to find what the gun prefers in terms of ammo. Assuming there is not some outright mechanical problem.

If you bought this gun used it could have a bent barrel. I would send it to the factory before sending it to a gunsmith unless intending to replace the barrel anyhow. Then I'd go with the gunsmith. JMHO.

 

[bubba052698]

From what I've heard, if the crown has a good ding in it, bullets will tend to pull in that direction. I don't know how much of a factor it would be, but it wouldn't hurt to take a peek.

 

[dvdstdg]

Are your open sights stock or aftermarket? If you have aftermarket sights that fit poorly or are poorly designed that could explain your open sight problem. As for the scope are you sure the scope is in good shape? How does it shoot on another firearm? Bent barrel is definitely a suspect. Have you compared the orientation and position of the action when secured in the stock with another ranch to confirm that the bedding isn't faulty?

 

[cajungeo]

Hey liberty arms. Did you buy your mini used? Did it start doing this suddenly? Did you try different ammo? While bedding will general improve accuracy I believe you could have a more serious problem. A bent barrel is a possibility. We had one member that tied a rope on the end of his barrel, and suspended it from a tree his POI moved upward 6". Thats just a 7-8lb weight. You may have to send it to Ruger, they charge a nominal fee, or if it is the rifle, and its not damaged such as a bent barrel, they often fix it for free. If you could post some more details we could get a better handle on your problem.

 

[liberty arms]

Gun was pruchased used. general apperance apperars to be in the 95% range. No visible dings or damage to stock. barrell or any other part of the gun. Sights are stock. Scope is brand new Leupold VXII. Have not tried scope on any other rifle as of yet.

I will be using a laser sight down the barrell later this week, that should answer the bent barrell question.

I have shot this gun on three different occations all with same results. Initially the shooter was suspect, but on the same range same day same ammo, I put the AR15 dead center each shot. This I believe eliminated the shooter.

Ammo: Federal AE223

I am not sure what is meant by "bedding".

 

[Billc]

Hi. Bedding is just using fiberglas to eliminate the play usually present between the action and stock. Sometimes you have to some prep work to avoid making it a permanent installation of the action--use clay to avoid where "locks" might occur. For the glas it may be necessary to increase clearances and make undercuts or roughen so the glas will be thick and permanent. A very common practive for those seeking the best accuracy from their rifles.

 

[dvdstdg]

Bedding is the fit of the action (and sometimes barrel) to the stock. If the stock inletting is not correct this can cause your action/barrel to point in a different direction than your stock. Hos is your stock fit to you physically? Don't have any experience with folders so I don't know how they affect your pointing/shooting results.

BTW, 'glas bedding' is the process of using one of many available commercial compounds to improve the fit of your action (barrel) to the existing bedding of the stock.

 

[cajungeo]

Hey liberty, It is true a bedding job will improve accuracy, but you have to get on the paper first. Bedding it now, you still wouldn't be on the paper. Keep us posted on your lasor sight test.

 

[aarocker1]

I was at the range a couple of weeks ago and a guy came over and told me about his mini-14 that had terrible accuracy out of the box. He sent it back to Ruger and they told him the barrel was bent and swapped the barrel.

 

[liberty arms]

After all the talk about bedding, I removed the reciever and trigger assembly and re-assembled the gun. Went back to the range and accuracy seemed to improve, at least now I am on the paper.

Using the iron sights at 25 & 50 I can now get it within 4" of dead center, same results with scope. Seems to be shooting low and right about equal distance. Adjusting both scope and iron to full travel, best I can achieve is about 2-3 inches from dead center.
I havent even attemped at 100, as I would assume the inaccuracy would only increase with distance.

laser sighting the barrel this weekend and will advise on results.

If barrel is bent, will factory replace at no cost (used gun), if not what am I looking at cost wise to replace? On similar subject, i purchased a Cholte muzzel brake/flash not currently installed. In the install instructions, it mentions that "now" would be a good time to shorten the barrell. What advantages will the shorting give me?

Sorry for all the questions, but this i my first mini. Have experience with the AR's, but this animal has it own set of quirks!

 

[Kalifornia Citizen]

Liberty Arms,
Don't go off cutting down the barrel. That will improve your accuracy, but it also reduces muzzle velocity below fragmentation advantage. There are better ways of improving accuracy. The experience of many folks on this board is fairly consistent.

KC
Happy Shells To You!
(Takeoff on Happy Trails to You)

 

[cajungeo]

liberty arms, if you cut your barrel, you can only cut 2 1/2" to be legal, if it is bent aft of this it will still shoot low, only now Ruger probably won't replace it for free. The have a min. charge for labor of $15 + $5 shipping. (always insure the rifle when shipping its cheep). Call Rugger to see what they would charge.

 

[Ridge Runner]

move the front ring to the back and back ring to the front, if its still low then its probably either the dovetail mount base or the barrel out of line you may need to build a tapered base of some sort.
If it shoots high then its the rings, are they the RR rings that came with the rifle? some ruger rings are different heights for front and rear.
RR

 

[BullseyeBilly]

Check to see if the barrel is bent. A friend of mine shot 20 rd clips, about 4 as fast as he could. Then set the gun down leaning against a wall on the barrel. The next time shooting he was shooting 3 ft right and 3 ft low.