[NOTPARS]

At a recent gun show there seemed to be a price war between those selling brand new Saiga 7.62x39mm rifles. They started out at $286 and the last I checked,were down to $219. Anyway, they look like an AK-47, except for the stock. They come with either, I don't recall, a 5 or 10 round magazine. I asked, since they looked like an AK, if we could use the AK-47 magazines in them and was told no, they wouldn't fit. Someone else told me that there was a piece of metal welded into the magazine well, or thereabouts, that prevented the insertion of AK mags. If this was knocked out, the mags would work.

1. Is this true?
2. Is this rifle worth buying if you're after a
cheap AK style "plinker?"

 

[Flak 2]

NOTPARS. You would have to install a feed ramp on the front trunion to use standard AK magazines in the 223 and 7.62X39 rifles, along with the correct number of made in the U.S.A parts to make it legal. On a Saiga magazine the front of the magazine, and rear locking lug are different. If you don't mind 10 rd. magazines the Saigas are one of the best deals going IMO. I'll probably pick up a 308 version soon. I have a 20'' 7.62X39 and it functions fine

 

[scout]

:blink:
Flak2,

Just searched for Saiga's concerning Hi-Cap Mags, and found this post. I am told that it's illegal to modify the gun.... but.... you can modify the mag's? If so since you seem to know what's going on is this possible? and what needs to be done?

Scout

 

[blzn69]

My friend was about to buy a saiga here in cali, but before he could purchase the firearm, they banned it.

 

[Flak 2]

you can indeed modify the Saigas to pistol grip sporting rifles that take hi capacity magazines.

If you check Kreb's customs or Vulcan Arms you'll see that they modify Saigas. Krebs does all kinds of stuff to Saigas and Veprs. It is ILLEGAL to modify a high capacity AK magazine to fit a standard non modified Saiga. The Saiga rifle has to be modified with the correct number of MADE IN THE UNITED STATES parts to become a sporting rifle.

Parts usually replaced in the standard Saigas to make them BATF compliant SPORTING RIFLES are hammer,trigger,disconnect,pistol grip,butstock,gas piston, forend both upper and lower need replaced to count as one part. Some people replace magazine parts follower and floorplate. Check over at Guns.net in the AK forums for the whole scoop.

 

[scout]

Flak 2

Thanks for the info! I couldn't pull up the Guns.net web site?

Scout :usa:

 

[Flak 2]

scout. you might want to buy a standard Saiga with the 10 round mag. Try it out and see if it fits your needs. If it does you can buy the U.S made parts and upgrade from there. If you don't care for it leave it as is and you won't have that much money in it.

CDNN seems to have the best prices on standard Saigas 16" 7.62X39=$159.99, 16" 223=$199.99, 16" 308=$229.99

 

[Messiah Jones]

Saiga Conversion CD + AK 47 & SKS Info

$6.50 shipped... here or on Ebay.

-High capacity magazine conversion instructions for the 7.62X39 and the .223/5.56 Saiga rifles. (step-by-step color pics).

-Pistol grip conversion for all Saiga rifles. (step-by-step color pics, for legality you must follow instructions).

-Instructions for converting the Saiga front grip to AK style handgaurds. (Pics of all the parts needed are included).

-How to do a trigger job on an unmodified Saiga.

-Several military sniper manuals / shooting guides.

-Conversion of SKS rifle to accept AK mags.

-Various silencer, full-auto, and 3 shot burst conversions including the SKS and AK (entertainment purposes only).

-Over twenty short movies of AKs firing.

-Saiga, AK, and SKS pictures. (Some custom jobs).

-An animation of an AK firing so you can see the internals working.

-Links to sites to buy all the parts needed for the conversions.

-A lot of various other SKS and AK info.

It took me a year of searching the web and asking questions just to get the information for the Saiga conversions. The information is scattered, unorganized and nearly impossible to find. Don't go through what I did. This CD has step-by-step pics that will comfort even the beginner with his/her conversion. In fact, this is many people's first gunsmithing project. After reading it over you will understand why so many people do this themselves and how it saves them so much money. You simply can't go wrong with a Saiga regarding quality and price, and even a monkey can do the conversions.

The additional AK and SKS info has value as well. Even people who aren't interested in the Saiga conversions will like the bonus AK and SKS material. Approximately 310 megs of info.

These are regular quality CDs burned at home. There are no originals and these are not copies since the info is just stored on my PC at home. Everything is just categorized simply in folders. It's nothing fancy, but this may in fact be the only place to get such information.

Note : These are not DVDs, they are intended to be viewed on a computer CDROM.

Free Shipping!

 

[Messiah Jones]

[/QUOTE]Is this rifle worth buying if you're after a
cheap AK style "plinker?"

The Saigas are of high quality. They are made in Russia by the same company that produced the original AK-47... Izhmash. They have a nice finish and they have paid much attention to machining details. Those of us who also have SARs can really tell the difference in machining and finish.

The Saiga is the way to go in my opinion because you simply can't get a cheaper AK style rifle and the quality is great. Many of the far more expensive AKs are of poorer quality as far as cosmetics. They have the siderail already installed, and it is on straight unlike some other company's rifles. The finish is nice and you can get them in a wide variety of calibers. I currently have a Saiga 12ga, 223, and 7.62X39 and I love them all.

But if you are buying one that is already converted to high cap and pistol grip, check the quality of the conversion first. The Hesse company unleashed a whole lot of these rifles with crooked sights and machine marks. If it was converted by Hesse there will be a stamped "Hesse" somewhere on the reciever.

 

[AK01Q]

Here's my Saiga converted to an AK-103

 

[csapor]

I thought the Saiga's had the receivers cut in some way that you cant
pur a pistol grip onto it.(easily) Maybe im confusing it with somethin else.

Also, don't you have to add a certain amount of US manufactured parts
to make it legal?

 

[Flak 2]

you have to have the correct U.S made parts count or it's illegal!

 

[goldfishranger]

These rifles seem like a pretty good deal. About how much would it cost to convert one to pistol grip and hi-cap? And could I do it without much gunsmithig experience?

 

[AK01Q]

Originally posted by goldfishranger@Sep 25 2003, 09:33 PM
These rifles seem like a pretty good deal. About how much would it cost to convert one to pistol grip and hi-cap? And could I do it without much gunsmithig experience?

If you haven't done much work on AK's before then I would say no. Some will not agree with me but here are my reasons:

1) If you want the build to incorporate rivets then you need equipment and experience to install them.
2) The Trigger guard needs to be removed and placed in it's original position. It is normally riveted in place.
3) The FCG needs to be moved forward to its original position.
4) The magazine latch must be modified to work with hi-cap mags.
5) A feed ramp needs to be installed. The feed ramp is riveted in place.

There are other steps involved in a conversion but they are less of an issue. My suggestion is to call Chris at AK-USA and have him do the conversion for you.

 

[scout]

B)

Thanks for all the feed back, I'm going to try and hit a show tomorrow to take a close look at the rifle.

God Bless the USA
Scout

:2guns: h34r:

 

[Messiah Jones]

The Saiga is already set up to allow the pistol grip. There aren't any special cuts or anything that make it harder to convert them. If you look at the bottom of a Saiga you'll notice a metal covering in just front of the trigger gaurd. That covering is hiding the original trigger hole in the reciever. You don't even have to cut a hole when moving the trigger assembly forward.

What most people don't know is that these rifles were manufactured in the style of the original pistol gripped AK. Then in order to sell to the US they covered the original trigger hole and moved it back a bit. Then slapped on a hunting style buttstock.

The trigger components in a Saiga before a conversion are special. They are set up to allow everything to function while moved back. All you have to do is buy regular style AK trigger components and they install right into their original spot where they were intended to. But the Saiga trigger components won't fit there. It really is that easy. Just remove that cover, slap in the new parts, and refinish the paintjob.

The total cost will vary depending on what you buy for it. You'll need a trigger group, a new buttstock, some Gunkote for refinishing, a pistol grip, and a pistol grip nut and screw.

The only hole you have to cut is a little square for the pistol grip nut to go through. It is just one screw that attatches the pistol grip and can be cut easily with a dremel.

You do have to meet the US parts requirements to do the conversion legally. This is done by using US made parts in the conversion.

If anyone is interested I have the step-by-step conversion CDs still available. See my post in the for sale section for more details or email me. B)

 

[Messiah Jones]

What most people don't realize is that these rifles started out in Russia as Izhmash AKs, then some of them were converted into Saigas to be sold in the US. If you look at the bottom of the Saiga just in front of the trigger gaurd you'll notice a funny looking metal cover. That cover hides the original trigger hole. All you have to do is...

1. Remove the trigger hole cover.

2. Put new AK trigger components in their original spot (already exists).

3. Cut a small hole for the pistol grip screw.

4. Refinish the paintjob.

Thats all of it. The new "AK" trigger parts will install with no modification to anything. They just slap right into their original spot a little farther forward of the "Saiga" trigger parts. This allows space for the pistol grip behind the trigger gaurd. The Saiga is already in AK configuration, it is just hidden. The hole left by the "Saiga" trigger is covered by the pistol grip.

The only things that are slightly intimidating are cutting off the trigger hole cover, and drilling a hole for the pistol grip nut (holds the pistol grip on). But both are easy with a dremel. If you understand the process it can be done in a couple of hours easily. My first time took 3 hours and it's easier now.

You do have to have the right amount of US parts for the conversion to be legal. This can be done by using all US made parts...

Trigger components...

Pistol grip nut...

Pistol grip screw...

Pistol grip...

Buttstock...

It really is easy, it's just a matter of understanding what you are doing. I started out by spending countless hours searching for info on the conversions, and messing around on forums. It took about a year but finally I understood it enough to try it. It would have been really easy if I could have just gotten all the info in one place and left out all the people giving advice who haven't done the conversions. I was a beginner with guns when I did my first Saiga conversion and I still am a newbie with prety much every other firearm.

Also, all the magazine conversion consists or is some minor filing for the 7.62X39, and some minor filing / feed ramp addition for the 223. The mags are so easy.

If anyone needs them I still have the Saiga Conversion CDs on the for sale section. Otherwise I would be happy to try to help through the forum.

 

[TwinRugers]

A buddy and I are going to a gun show this weekend. He is looking for a .308 version but if we can find one for under $250, by golly, we got ourselves a gun!!!