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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Everyone,
Finally had a chance to get out and shoot a little bit since getting my trigger back from Mike at Northwest Shooters Support.
First I have to say thanks again to Mike, he did a great job on my trigger. Major difference. I also got the bushing kit and the bedding video. I haven't bedded the rifle yet, but maybe down the road.

Now for how it shot. First I had a cheap ram line stock on it and changed it to a Hogue over molded stock. The trigger has been done, new gas bushing and the double muzzle break; other than that it's a stock ranch.
When I changed the stock the groups were all at least a foot and a half high, so I had to bring them down before I started trying to get groups.

Win. white box 55 grain ball: four shots 1.75" with a fifth flyer opening it to 4.5"
Fed. American eagle 55gr ball: four shots 1.5" with a fifth flyer opening it to 2.5"
Fed premium 50gr TNT: four shots 1.35 with a fifth flyer opening it to 2.75"
Wolf 55gr: don't bother
Fed 63gr classic: 5" or so.

My question is what's the deal with the four shot decent group and a fifth round that screws it up on the three loads that did OK? With a Hogue stock would bedding do any good since the action is "squished" down into the rubber over molding?
Any Ideas
John:rapid:
 

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Jw, if you take your magazine, & trigger group out for a minute, with the rifle in your lap, grasp the receiver, and wiggle it side to side in your stock. This is how much your action/barrel moves under recoil. A movement of only .010" will move your bullet 1 inch, on the target at 100 yds. Mine had .030". After beding my Hogue stock The flyers went away, plus it tightend my groups, even sometimes 2 bullets made a snow man.
I beded the inside, the fiberglass part of the stock, to my action, per the video. Course it was easier, cause you don't have to bed the Stock Reinforcement (steel liner around the recoil lugs) as you don't use it with the Hogue. I did NOT bed the upper rubber over mold to the action. I used Brownells Acraglas Gel, it is neater to work with, it dosn't run. Everyone sells it. 11.95 to 14.95. Its one of the best accuracy improvements you can do for the money. If you get some on your stock, alcohol wipes it up.
 

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Sorry Jw, I moved this thread to the Mini-14-Accurizing forum. Part of my job is to help keep these forums organized.
 

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JWB,
I've seen some screwy stuff like that as well. I believe it has something to do with it being the last shot from a 5rd mag???

I've also noticed that with some mags, I get double grouping where 3rds will go in one spot and the other 2rds in another spot. I've kept track of the shots as they were fired and found that where the shot goes depends on which side of the mag the rd was stripped off from. I only notice this with Soft Point (SP) ammo and finally found that some mags would allow the round to get a smashed dent in one side of the SP. I've since switched to strictly handloading once fired cases w/ what I call "protected tip designs" like the poly tips, hollow points and FMJ. I don't waste my time with FMJ when handloading though, simply because the bullet quality is so poor and I want the most POP for my buck! When evaluating the ammo (not the rifle) I shot single shot and hand feed the chamber each and every round. Then I go to tweeking the feed lips of my mags to enhance chambering. Of course my handloaded ammo is partially sized using cases that had been once fired in that rifle so the cases are perfectly formed to the chamber and negate the sloppy chamber Ruger cuts in Mini barrels.

Of course I'm talking about rifle that have been glass bedded and barrels lapped. It sounds like your Houge stock is not the issue as far as bedding is concerned. You said the reciever is slightly tension bedded by the nubs that Houge molds into the stock. I still suspect it's because it's the last round in the mag that it goes funny.

Try shooting single shot, and then try shooting from a 20rd mag that is at least half full. Then re-post results and copy me directly at e-mail address below.
 

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Mike,

Interesting you mention stripping the round from one side of the clip or the other...

Gets me thinking. When I manually cycle a clip through, I get all kinds of nicks, dents and gouges in the bullets. I wonder if this is one of the primary reasons the Mini-14 is always so inaccurate?

Bumping into that 'ramp' when a shell is being pushed from the clip into the chamber has very unpredictable results on the bullet. sometimes the tip of the bullet gets quite deformed. If the round is push from the left side of the clip, different 'trama' happens to the bullet than when it's pushed from the right side. This would lead to an inherent innacuracy... Maybe if the 'ramp' were smooth like a ramp should be, instead of stair-stepped like it is in a factory Mini-14.

Next time I'm at the range, I'm going to see how much more accurate it is if I manually load each round. Maybe the best modification is to weld in some ramps to make feeding more uniform, or taper that magazine so that it forces the rounds to come up in the center of the mag.

Might be onto something here...
 

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Satan,
Yea give it a try. I think you'll find the results interesting.

One of the first things I do when I aquire an new mag is tune it. I like to see the rounds being feed a little straighter than they seem to w/ box stock mags. I'm not a real fan of ramps in auto's. Instead I prefer more of a center feed approach. But with that said I still don't like SP's in a Mini. If I'm going to handload, it's going to be some wicked poly tips. My favorite load right now is a 40gr V-Max loaded over ~29gr H335 in some TW72 military cases.(work up to this load please!) It gives me almost 3500fps in the Mini's 18" barrel and doesn't stretch cases in my rifle. I can wipe the cases w/ a rag wetted with an IPA & lanoline mix for a lube and stuff some powder and a new bullet into it without all the prep work. Of course these cases have already been uniformed in some previous loading session. Doesn't take me long to have another couple hundred rounds ready to go. I mark all the cases for my "personal" rifle and try only to shoot them in it. This preserves the formed cases for my Mini.

However I must admit, my $1200 AR simply adores the same load. (Hey I may be a fan of the Mini but I gotta at least try the "black rifle" don't I??) I'll be the first to admit the Mini has it's limitations. If your after one hole 1/4" groups AND have the money to do it....go by a good flat-top HB AR. BUT if your after minute of coyote accuracy in a cheap reliable compact package, an accurized Mini-14 is very hard to beat.

Nuf said on the AR vs. Mini-14 subject.
Mike in Oregon
 

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Maby thats why I've been having problems developing a load. I thought it was the bullet weight, I'll try some ballistic tips instead of the soft points, and watch how they feed. Thanks Mike for the tips.
 

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The results are in, and they may impress you. I was at the range today and instead of using a magazine at all, I hand loaded each round. Knocked 0.5 MOA off my score. Of course it takes a while to pump out 20 rounds, but hey - an improvement is just that.

But don't jump up and down just yet. I didn't have my rifle rest with me and it was unusually calm out today. These are not typical conditions for me, as there is usually 5-10 mph winds. I did fire some rounds from a clip to compare and they seemed typical. I will try again tomorrow possibly. This time I won't forget my rifle rest. It may have been me spending more time on each shot because of the hand-loading process of locking the bolt back, placing the round ever so carefully into the chamber and dropping the bolt.

I would strongly advise trying this yourself. I want to see if others have any improvement in groupings. I may just have to weld a smoother ramp into my Mini's ramp yet...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi Guys,
I finally did what everyone has been saying and took the trigger group out of my rifle and see how much it moves. The rubber on the Houge kind of makes it stick, but I turned it upside down and it would wobble side to side quite a bit so I broke down and "bedded" (more on that in a minute) the rifle. Took it out Thursday and my best group was with Win. varmint pack 45gr. hollow points. 1.35" x 1.75" groups at 100 yards. Fed American eagle 50gr hollow points shoot pretty good too; just a tad over 2" x 1.5".
Thanks Mike, Canjungeo and everyone for the advice. I'm really happy with the groups. That's accurate enough for me. I do have a question about the bedding though.
When I did the bedding I didn't use enough compound I guess because; while I do have some nice flats I estimate that only about 60% of the area that the bedding compound that could touch the metal where I bedded the action actually does. It fills a lot of the space, but you can see voids. Is this a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it," or should I rebed it? Can you just add more bedding compound or do you have to "chip" the compound out and start over?

Thanks again.
John.

:rapid:
 

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Good Job JB! Glad it worked for ya. It's important to get a good fill around the recoil lugs. All you have to do is rough up the areas to fill in, clean with alcohol, Plug the areas in the receiver so ya won't get a mechanical lock, just like you did the first time. Also don't forget the release agent!!! If the voids are small in other areas I wouldn't worry too much about them, unless your going to redo it anyway. If ya don't the bedding will wear out after a spell.
 
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Well, I've been at the range the past 2 fridays to see what my mini will do. Ive had it about 6 months, but just recently added a Bushnell3x9. I am going to guess that the inaccuracy(7"groups at 100yds) is partially operator error and the 62gr Wolf Russ. ammo. Would everyone agree that Wolf 62gr. is a poor round to shoot at 100yd when attempting to be as accurate as possible? Thanks MEP
 

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Mp, some mini's like the wolf, some don't. Some like lighter bullets, and some like heaver. Each one is different. You just have to experiment, and see what it likes. I wouldn't buy 1,000 rds before I found out what shoots best in your mini, and is cheep to shoot. In my mini, I've shot Remington 55 gr. ( ho-hum), federal premium ( shot well, but cant afford $18 a box), barnauls (rushun stuff, shot ok, is cheep, but stinks, and can't reload), Winchester 45 gr varmit ( origionaly shot 4 1/2 " groups, till I bedded my stock, a trigger job, and installed a muzzle brake, now it shoots 1 1/2" at 100 yds average, best 5 shot group .9". Cheep too @ $9.89 for a box of 40 rds at Academy sports, or $11.89 at walmart. Now I'm reloading the brass I shot up). Id keep on shopin. Good luck!;)
 
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CAJ, It sounds like you hooked up pretty good with the muzzlebreak,trigger job and bedded stock, how much did all that cost? and are you considering the gas bushing kit ive been hearing about?MP
 

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The Black Warrior double muzzle brake $19.95, Trigger job, and gas bushing kit (combo price)$50. Acraglas bed kit $11. The gas bushing kit reduces recoil, by a lot. With it, and the muzzle brake, my mini dosen't kick much more, than my 10/22. I can keep it sighted on the bulls eye during rapid fire at 100yd. If I may toot my horn again, A month ago at the range I loaded up 15 rds, had a range buddy time the volley. 13 of the 15rds were in a 8 1/2" group, with 7 rds in the 6" bulls eye, in 7 seconds. I couldn't have done that with the standard recoil or std trigger. my trigger pull now is 3 1/2 #. The muzzle brake seems to dampen the muzzle "flip" of the std mini's barrel. It alone cut my groups in half. Beding the stock tightened groups up another 3/4", plus eliminated the flyers.(also an 11 # trigger pull will create flyers) The only down side to the muzzle brake is it makes the bang a BANG as some of the gasses, and sound are diverted up in front of ya. I wear my Peltors any way so I don't notice it.
 
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