[NOTPARS]

Recently I was looking at some Marlin lever action rifles in 444 and the price was not bad. An acquaintance who is gun smith told me to pass. I asked why. He said there are few bullets available for the 444 (I don't as yet reload) so you have to use the bullets made for the .44 handgun. He said that at the velocity obtained by these bullets from the Marlin, they don't hold up well and tend to disintegrate when striking the game and so don't penetrate well. He said the 45-70 would be a much better choice.
I was thinking of getting one for hunting here in Missouri where the longest shot (white tail deer) is probably around 60 yards or less. Also, I thought it might be a neat gun to shoot. Anyone have any advice on this?

 

[punchie]

The 444 is entirely adequate for what your purposes are. The factory loads can be a little harder to find than the 45-70 but they do a good job. If you have a problem finding ammo locally, you can always go to the NET to order.

 

[NOTPARS]

Thanks for the reply. I had kind of concluded that this would be a good rifle and round for Missouri. But being no authority, I wanted to check with you folks first. Again, thanks.

 

[deerhntr]

If i had to choose i would get the 45/70 just because More factory ammo is available and is very common,I have shot many deer with my 45/70 in the thickets here in New York and it Knocks them on thier ass every time,My brother shoots a 444 Marlin with the same results DEVISTATING ON DEER

 

[Old Judge Creek]

Forget the 444. Go either 45-70 or 44 mag (preferably 45-70).

 

[Gowge]

Well, there's another alternative if you're interested in a 44 (.429) caliber lever action. I don't mean the 445 Super Mag, but the NEW 44 Mag Max. It's basically a 444 that's trimmed to 1.8" case length so you can shoot it in any Marlin 336 or similar size action. The cartridge is almost exactly half way between the length of the 44 Mag and the 444 Marlin. There's a reason for the madness... Both the 44 Mag and the 444 Marlin were designed in the beginning with handgun bullets in mind. Now that we have so many choices in 44 bullets, you can use 265 - 300 grain bullets more effectively in the shorter length cartridge.

More detailed info & discussion on this link:

44 Mag Max Discussion

GOOD LUCK! :usa:

 

[swill269]

there are far more choices in firearms & ammo. for 45-70 than 444.
check out the new gibbs frontier 45-70 carbine, built on a lee enfield #1 mk2, rebarreled in 45-70 gvmt. will handle any factory loaded ammo made today, even cor-bon. with 3rnd mag & bolt action you can't beat it. sugested retail is $364, check gibbsrifles.com catalouge
happy huntin'
:cannon:

 

[Gowge]

You really like this one? Gibbs Frontier Carbine - Scroll Down

Tell me the truth - don't you really like this sweet Marlin Guide Gun below just a little better?

Marlin Firearms - Guns For A REAL MAN! :usa:

 

[swill269]

accually i have the summit enfield #4 mk1 w/monte carlo checkered stock & forearm ($384 list), but only 1000 were made and the frontier is the replacement. i don't care much for the style of frontier but it is a 45-70 <_<

 

[Zydeco76]

I have a 444P Marlin. Its the shorter versin of the 444. The remington factory ammo will kick the crap outa any dear. Seriously the knockdown is impressive. I like both the 45-70 and the 444 however I do not reload. The 45-70 came out at a time when actions were not as strong as they are today. Because of this, factory ammo is loaded at a lower pressure in the 45-70 than in the 444 marlin. If you reload and want to kill a whale then the 45-70 with a 400 grain bullet will be great. But if your like me and just buy ammo for dear then you will be happy with the 444. Acording to my spear reloading manual you can still handload a 300gr bullet @ 2211 fps for the 444. I would'nt go hunting a kodiak with it but I believe it would work. With the exeption of a grizzley bear this rifle is great for any close range hunting apllication. Black bear, pig, dear, elk whatever. Unless remington goes out of buisness ammo wont be hard to find.

 

[pahaska]

Notpars,seems like you recieved all the pros and cons I had in mind. You are right it IS a neat gun to shoot and certainly the .444 is more than adequate for deer size game at the yardage you mentioned. The bullet selection is not only limited by the calibers mentioned, but also by the configuration of the magazine on most lever guns. ONLY flat point bullets should be used in lever guns with a tubular mag. to ovoid primer ignition caused be recoil.(read in here,bullet-point stacked against primer) This is not an issue with lever guns such as the model 99 savage and the like which have internal box mags.That said,my personnel preference is the 45.70. I use a marlin guide gun in that caliber to back up my hunters while in grizzly country and have also used that gun effectivly on elk.Also you can pick up some cowboy-action loads at a more reasonable price than any .444 to go plinking with. Sub note to swill269. If you reload for the enfield conversion,check the reloading manual carefully. I'm not sure what the cor-bon case pressure is but I do know that the Enfield can't hande case pressure that the marlin can and the marlin can't handle the pressure that the ruger #1 can!!

 

[Ivanimal]

I believe the action on the gibbs rifle is as strong as the siamese mausers of yesteryears. That is the reason we see them here. No limitations due to strength, check with SAAMI before you believe me. I had the same choices and went with the Marlin 1895 standard model to keep the pistol grip stock. Position of your hands makes a big difference shooting these beasts! 45/70 will be easier to find whether your in Montana or Hawii. Go for old faithful its a blast to shoot and reload for.

 

[swill269]

they handle the 308 press. and it is greater than 45/70. this model gibbs has been chambered and fired with the 45/90 using a 500 fmjrn. it has no prob's with this old load. it is a slow burner with a lazy twist and the 308 is much quicker and hotter.

:usa: :beer:

 

[pahaska]

Right,they will handle the .308 pressure and the OLD loads for 45/70 will cause no problems. However my rcbs loading manual has a complely different chapter for loading the 45/70 for the Marlin and still another for the Ruger #1 Both of these guns will handle more case pressure than ANY of the rifles of the Enfied configuration including the Gibbs In the Ruger # 1 the 45/70 can safely be loaded to muzzle energy close to the .458 win. The case preassure of this load exceeds by far what you should load into the Gibbs or any of the older guns chambered for this round.

 

[swill269]

here is where i am getting my info, www.chuckhawks.com/gibbs_summit.htm, an article by ron card. "The Strength of the Gibbs Lee-Enfield Summit .45-70 Rifle"

sorry i have not figured out how to link yet. i checked out all the press i could find on the summit before i bought. i had one 45-70 rifle already. this impressed me most.

:usa: :beer:

 

[pahaska]

Hey swill, thanks for the Chuck Hawks site!! I just spent 45 min. on it. I dug into it and found contradictory information. On the 1st page(about the Gibbs) He states that the action SHOULD withstand the pressure of the type 3 reloadings. On the page devoted to the 45/70 cartridge He states that catagory 3 is for MODERN single shots, The ruger and the Dakota mentioned specifically. I WILL tuck my tail on the statement "the Marlin will handle hotter loads than the Gibbs" But I still have doubts, I was looking into a Gibbs and when researching the preassure capabilities came across acouple of statements limiting the Gibbs to catagory 1 loadings.Thats why I bought a Marlin. How does the Summit shoot ?

 

[swill269]

it shoots great! i bought some pcm 350gn @ 2025 fps. i did not get near the kick i get from my single shot. the barrel is a navy arms custom made for gibbs and it is stout. i don't like the frontier because of the straight stock. i had some machining probs with it. it would not chamber a round at all. the extractor was too big to ride over the big rim on the case. the top of the extractor would hit the breech and the bolt would not go forward any farther. i called gibbs and asked if they proof tested their weapons and they said yes and i said NO. they offered to fix free, just send it to them. deer season was too close to let them have it so i used my dremel tool and bought a spare extractor to grind on and got it fixed. however the pmc ammo is defective. when they crimped it they crushed the cases some and made them bulge. it was very hard to chamber & exract their ammo. after i fired it the case came out easy. i have hand loads that go through like butter so the gun is fine now. gibbs says the mags hold 3 rn's, i get 5 in mine with no prob. i don't know of another 45-70 that will hold 6 rnd's.

i would buy another one even though i had trouble. for $400 you can't beat it. :cannon:

:usa: :beer:

 

[deerdown444]

I have both the 1895 45/70 and the 444 marlin,and I have killed deer with both.The deer couldn't tell the differents dead is dead..I can tell you the 444 did destroy more meat.The 444 left a hole I could put my arm through no need to track.And the 444 has more felt recoil than the 45/70 does in factory loads.I think the 444 would be a good choice for what you said you wanted it for.I love mine it does what I want it to :cannon: .........But if I was planing on hunting dangerous animals.I would go with the 45/70 if I didn't reload..


D.D.444

 

[MauserMoe]

I have been using the 45-70 for over 30 years and the .444 (in a Winchester Big Bore) since Winchester 1st made them. Both have accounted for a few deer each, a moose each and a bear each. Both pack a wallop on both ends, though with my handloads I'd say the 45-70 boots me harder.
All I have ever shot out of either is handloads. 400 grain Speers in the 45-70 and 300 grain Hornady XTPs in the .444. None of the deer, moose or bear could tell the diffence. Both are very accurate.
I like both and wouldn't give either up.
If you are getting a good buy on the .444, grab it and order your ammo over the interned. Plenty of places will sell it and you can get it from "Grafs.com". That way it's not hard to find at all.
One of my best friends owns only an early Marlin .444 (the 1st one I ever saw) and my cousin has a new one and I have a nephew who bought a Winchester Black Shadow right after I bought my Big Bore. None of them have a bad word to say about the .444.