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Main reason I use optics on my rifles, it's hard to see horns in the heavy brush where I hunt.
Makes it easier to see bullet holes in standard targets.
Yes I have an 80x spotter but at 100 yds it gets cumbersome to keep going to the spotter.
I like to see what I hit when it hits. I'd rather be putting rounds down range then looking thru the spotter every couple shots.
Each to their own if it works for you that's what counts.
 
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Speaking about iron sights, I had my Gunsmith drill-out and tap some spare M1/M1A apertures so they could accept common screw-in apertures. Without the screw-in aperture, the much wider, threaded Peep is nearly a "Ghost Ring" sight, and far quicker than the unmodified GI unit in daytime. With a proper cheek weld/position, and some sort of Tritium/painted front sight, it is much[/] better in dim light.

Where it shines is allowing me to tailor the internal diameter of the screw-in aperture for use on the target range. Very small ID apertures allow my eyes to work much better with the iron sights than with the unmodified GI units.

If you have hooded, National Match rear sights on your M1, M1A, or AR, there is another alternative: bjonessights.com - Control Panel - File Manager. Match shooters have been using this product for years, but I have no personal experience with it.

It may be possible for one to mount a Williams/Lyman rear sight on their rifle, which sight accepts threaded apertures. In some cases, this might not involve any gunsmithing work/expense. It might also be possible to obtain a spare OEM rear aperture, and drill/tap that item to accept screw-in rear apertures.

These are just some iron sight alternatives/mods. I'm sure these suggestions can be added-to by many here.

FWIW, I added some additional comments vis-a-vis illuminated optics and Night Observation Devices (NODs) to my last comment on page 1 of this thread. Mentioning it here so others can add to my suggestions.
 

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Speaking about iron sights, I had my Gunsmith drill-out and tap some spare M1/M1A apertures so they could accept common screw-in apertures. Without the screw-in aperture, the much wider, threaded Peep is nearly a "Ghost Ring" sight, and far quicker than the unmodified GI unit in daytime. With a proper cheek weld/position, and some sort of Tritium/painted front sight, it is much[/] better in dim light.

Where it shines is allowing me to tailor the internal diameter of the screw-in aperture for use on the target range. Very small ID apertures allow my eyes to work much better with the iron sights than with the unmodified GI units./QUOTE]

That's exactly what I did with my FAL, huge difference. If you're a DIYer be aware that small sight apertures have odd thread sizes and bits/taps may require a bit of an internet search to find. Not common hardware store items.
 

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Speaking about iron sights, I had my Gunsmith drill-out and tap some spare M1/M1A apertures so they could accept common screw-in apertures. Without the screw-in aperture, the much wider, threaded Peep is nearly a "Ghost Ring" sight, and far quicker than the unmodified GI unit in daytime. With a proper cheek weld/position, and some sort of Tritium/painted front sight, it is much[/] better in dim light.

Where it shines is allowing me to tailor the internal diameter of the screw-in aperture for use on the target range. Very small ID apertures allow my eyes to work much better with the iron sights than with the unmodified GI units./QUOTE]

That's exactly what I did with my FAL, huge difference. If you're a DIYer be aware that small sight apertures have odd thread sizes and bits/taps may require a bit of an internet search to find. Not common hardware store items.


Now that you jog my memory, I modded my own FAL this way, as well.
 

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I did similar with Mini14 Tech Sight with the Mini200 sight post and changeable inserts, if you keep no insert in it the large peep is fairly ghost ring like at around 0.110" diameter or so.

Tech Sight's aperture inserts for TSR200, TSM200, MINI200 and other 200 series rifle sights. https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00ANWVAAY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_fOriFbFE6BFMZ

Randy, I fully agree that even with astigmatism issues and red dot starburst you CAN shoot it accurately, and fairly fast, but it does take a level of concentration to properly position the dot on target if the dot is not just blurred but is instead very misshapen. I've got one red dot that has an advertised 3MOA dot but the starburst I see in it is easily 12MOA or larger. I could easily use it in home defense ranges without caring at all how big the dot is, minute of man at 100ft on my property is practically the entire field of view through the 30mm scope body at 1x, it's 30MOA or so. Point and shoot.

But, With that mounted on Mini14 I could still hit steel consistently with a holdover to 300yd but it wasn't fast or brain dead easy... it takes conscious decision to ignore the mess and focus on targeting where the dot center is not the centroid of the visible streaks (not centered on the dot!). The iron sight does not have that issue, so you trade the speed of a dot's single focal plane for the distraction and focus issue your brain has to process rather than the inherently slower two focal plane system of the peep sight; I find neither is a clearly better answer. Prism etched reticles however are.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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XS post

I read about the XS threaded post somewhere on this site and mine arrives from Texas TODAY! It was only $20 delivered and I got one for the Marlin .44mag that wears an XS sight as well. I have a bunch of options to screw into it from other rifles using the Lyman/Williams peeps. I even have a Merit one that is adjustable. My 580 series rear sight is the one made by XS so it should work perfect. My peeps have a long enough shank that it should be just outside the protective wings of the rear site allowing full adjustment for windage if needed. The larger than factory ghost ring without a peep inserted might also be an upgrade. I am pretty sure the smaller peeps will help with accuracy if you can see through them in good light.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
I actually prefer shootin iron sights and many of my favorite guns are set up with them.

I am especially fond of Lyman Receiver sights and have them on several rifles. I also really like open sights and have several guns especially .22's and Pellet Guns and shoot them alot for practice. My most prized possession is a Mauser ES340B Single shot .22 Rifle which I have had since I was 18 years old. It has VERY GOOD Open Sights and it also has a Weaver K4 on a Anschutz removable mount that repeats perfectly and has since 1978. I shoot it better with the open sights than I do with the scope, and shot my personal best 31/40 in Rimfire Silhouette.







The Red Dots come in when we start talking about Carbines made for Defensive Purposes, and that is all about fast target acquisition which is crucial in those situations.

As far as anyone's personal preferences? That is entirely up to them, as this is a free country,,,, for now.

But in any event you must take care of yourself, and one of the most important parts is your eyes. And therein lies the purpose of this thread. It is not about Personal Attacks, but rather a Motivational Exercise intended to kick people in the butt to better themselves and benefit their hobby which I think is shooting.

However Seeing Better will help with all aspects of your life. But you knew that right?

Randy
 

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Knew that YUP. Now all I have to do is remember where I set my glasses down, hard to see them without them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
lordmorgul : Try something next time you go shooting with a Red Dot Optic.

Just try shooting as fast as you can at 15-25 yards Man Sized Target. With out regard to shot placement. All you are going to do is put the dot on the target somewhere, and pull the trigger. Do double taps so you are putting 2 shots on the target as fast as possible.

Do it a few times until you are hitting the target center mass every time. As your confidence increases your speed will also increase, and you will truly see the benefit of the Red Dot Optic.

This isn't so much about Eyesight or any thing like that it is more about just learning how to do it. It is a technique thing not a physical thing. Granted the Physical things can slow you down, but you can learn to work around them and that is what this exercise is all about.

If you went to a Front Sight Rifle Class this is exactly what you would be doing for 2 to 4 days and believe me, you'd be able to shoot when you got done.

The Key is Repetition, IE: number of times over a given subject = Certainty!

Some things have to be drilled in to be absorbed. I am a very big believer in this as I am very slow to learn new things, and after 12 Pistol classes, 10 Rifle classes and 5 Shotgun classes,,,, I'm starting to get the hang of it. :eek:

Randy
 
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Went to a 500 yard popup target night fire range in the army, thought this will be fun.
First weapon I was given a BB gun I'm going what the hell is this all about.
Sarge says if you can't hit hand thrown targets with the BB gun you can't
use the range.
The targets 2 inch tin disks at night with a BB gun is a bigger challenge
then i thought, turns out that this was good snap shooting practice.
Something I still practice to this day.
I did get to use the range that night and yes it was fun.
 
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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Went to a 500 yard popup target night fire range in the army, thought this will be fun.
First weapon I was given a BB gun I'm going what the hell is this all about.
Sarge says if you can't hit hand thrown targets with the BB gun you can't
use the range.
The targets 2 inch tin disks at night with a BB gun is a bigger challenge
then i thought, turns out that this was good snap shooting practice.
Something I still practice to this day.
I did get to use the range that night and yes it was fun.
I remember this from back in the Day, and Daisy sold alot of BB guns for this exact purpose.

I never got to do it because in the Air Force you got exactly two days of rifle training and I got to fire exactly 60 rounds in my entire 3 years 7 months and 10 days in service.

Randy
 
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<snip>I never got to do it because in the Air Force you got exactly two days of rifle training and I got to fire exactly 60 rounds in my entire 3 years 7 months and 10 days in service.

Randy
When I went through USAF Basic, back in '81, we shot rifles modded to .22LR at a reduced size target at 25yds (I seem to recall). In '82 to OTS, no rifles, just pistols. It was a few years later I opted to re-qualify (part of Project Warrior if you recall back that far). First time I shot "the real deal" at a full size silhouette at 100yds.
 

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I am one of those that has competed for well over 50 years, as a diabetic, and have chased eye sight issues for decades. I started at 15/20 eyesight and could see clearly all three points with open sights, rear, front and target when shooting on the 101st Rifle and Pistol teams and later in silhouette matches.
I have used various glasses, contact lenses, the adjustable iris on glasses, multiple round apertures (front and rear), LASIK laser surgery, cataract surgery, with torn retina surgery. Each surgery has its own after effect, perfect vision only comes from God, man is really not capable of making perfect eyesight without issues. They can help, but, the correction itself usually requires more correction with age as in LASIK in 10 years, but can cause early onset cataracts as in my case.
I have conducted two different surveys at world championship matches, as the gun tec, and have written three magazine articles about eyesight degradation, the causes, some cures and optics as a help. My first article about LASIK surgery in the IHMSA News scooped the NRA article by two months. In the survey I determined that people that are near sighted have age issues before those whom are far sighted. Many far sighted shooters compete into their late 70s to 80s without or with minimal issues.
A diabetic, regardless of type, suffers the same eyesight loss as others do at age, but on an accelerated basis. Diabetes effects the nerves in the body and the largest nerve in the body is the optic nerve.
The eye/brain combination is a wonder, no camera in existence can match it when it works perfectly. It allows two eyes, on different levels horizontally and two places vertically to see one image. The combination focuses instantly at any distance, sees all colors and shades, instantly, and all of this at the speed of light, in effect at the very same instant.
When you start seeing star bursts for lights, blurs, flashes of light, have rapid degradation or multiple floaters in one or both eyes, it is time to go see a medical professional. If you are a shooter tell them or go find one that treats competitive shooters. No one gets a second set of eyes, you work with the ones you get issued.
I shot red dots in competition for several years, used a Gilmore 2 MOA, with a bubble level on the scope’s rear ring. A common problem with dots is canting as there is no reference in the view plane to level from. A dot should be turned up or down to mate with ambient light so it just forms a clear round dot, if turned up too bright it will loose it’s fine round edge. This can also happen with light changes. If shooting competition with a dot that has numbered brightness settings, make note of light and settings then make changes as the light makes major changes.
I shot scopes for years. With a variable scope, the eye relief changes with increasing or decreasing the power setting. Choose a power setting and leave it alone. Make sure you are shooting the target you are supposed to be on. Do not forget to change the parallax setting for different distances, if your scope has adjustment, it does make a difference.
Trigicon makes a no battery, instant ambient light adjusted, dot sight that is intended for day and night use. You just flip the cover off and the dot is there, put cover on, it goes off.. They are expensive and only come in larger dots but work like a champ. I have one on my 30x39 AR.
Return your sights to your zero after every practice session so you always know exactly where your sights are.
 

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I have hesitated about mentioning the NV aspect. Probably the easiest thing to do is turn ON your Illuminated Optics and set them to Full-Bright, then go to a totally dark area, and look carefully into the Objective end of the optic, while moving it around a bit, so all angles can be seen. If you see some light, well, there it is.

Might not be noticed by an observer's naked eye, particularly at extended ranges, but might be magnified by NODs worn by an observer. It is possible that such "External Detection" of Illuminated Optics can be mitigated through the use of Anti-Reflection/"Killflash" devices, worn over the Objective end of the optic. There are many mfrs/vendors for such devices, perhaps even the original mfr of your particular optic. I have used products from Leupold and from these people:

YMMV, of course, but I suggest considering "External Detection" of illuminated optics, whether or not one has astigmatism, and the optic's suitability for use in conjunction with NODs in addition to the usual concerns when contemplating future purchases of illuminated optics.
If your red dot has a rear lens cap keep it closed. Since with a red dot you shoot with both eyes open you will be able to see your target just as good as before. The advantages of keeping the rear lens cap closed is that A-the enemy can not look into the back end of your scope and see your red dot and B-you can put your red dot on a lower setting and keep it there whether it is dusk or full sunlight it does not matter. Also since the red dot is on a lower setting my 4moa red dot now looks like a crisp 2moa dot.
 

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If your red dot has a rear lens cap keep it closed. Since with a red dot you shoot with both eyes open you will be able to see your target just as good as before. The advantages of keeping the rear lens cap closed is that A-the enemy can not look into the back end of your scope and see your red dot and B-you can put your red dot on a lower setting and keep it there whether it is dusk or full sunlight it does not matter. Also since the red dot is on a lower setting my 4moa red dot now looks like a crisp 2moa dot.
With all possible respect, I think you meant to say the keep the Front cap ON the red-dot, and the Rear cap OFF.

This would mimic the old Armson O.E.G. (Occluded Eye Gunsight). I had one way back, and used it quite a bit, until the Tritium element finally decayed to uselessness, and there were no replacement units.

This is a useful work-around, but it does take some training. Some people take a lot more training than others. It's more than usually important to achieve a good, consistent cheek weld with such an occluded sight. Might take some tinkering, depending.

If I am incorrect, please correct me.
 

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A few points need to be made about red dot optics.

A red dot will never be in focus when the shooter is looking at the target
Cheaper optic have more parallax and distortion of the dot
If you have an astigmatism a red dot is often more problem some than a scope
The shadow or halo is most often created be improper eye relief
 
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