[edward]

not quite the outcome i wanted, but i guess the republicans have the house so it is not like the first two years of obama when we could not stop anything. but i digress, anyhow i stopped at dicks today just to see if ammo was all gone, and we had another ammo shortage starting, and i was surprised that they were well stocked. but it seems like 308 is still hard to get in surplus and steel cased online. so what do you guys going to think our future is for 4 years, i know i have a little advantage because i cast and reload everything. but i would love to be able to buy surplus and steel ammo in quantity online again someday.

 

[CallSignShoobeeFMFPac]

I believe the next 4 years will clearly be fair and bright.

It is a miracle that at least 50.5% of the voters saw through Romney's hollow promises of more oil drilling everywhere and more tax cuts mostly for the rich. This worn out line was used with great success by Reagan, and the Red team loves to try it over and over.

Now that taxation will become more responsible, either over the cliff or else with a reasonable and fair compromise, the revenue side of the equation will improve for the federal government.

Similarly California has passed prop 30 like the governor asked, and so it too will have fixed it's revenue drain. California has already done widespread cutting of costs, and so adding revenue was the only choice. The governor warned that he would be glad to cut more if the voters did not give him more revenue. So they agreed.

At the federal level in addition to more revenues there also needs to be more cutting as well. 10 years of war need to end. This is unprecedented. The USA cannot afford in treasure or blood to be the world's policeman.

Federal funds are better spent rebuilding infrastructure. We need more dams and aquaducts. More highways and bridges. More railroads and airports. Inftrastructure provides future benefits as well as more revenues from their usage.

Poor people and anyone with health insurance can now get medical treatment and hospitals now can get paid for providing it, and those who shirk getting medical coverage or who shirk getting it for their employees will pay.

Social security and medicare are safe for our elderly.

Life Is Good.

Go Blue team!!!

 

[CallSignShoobeeFMFPac]

There is a political down side to the Blue team winning such a sweeping election and increasing their seats in both the Senate and US House.

Since only 40% to 45% of US households are gun owning, the other 55% to 60% seem to take a very dim view of combat rifles. They particularly hate the sight of the AK-47. But the AR-15 is also being used more often in spree and mass shootings.

Many of them (the majority which are non gun owning) share Romney's and Obama's and Feinstein's views, that civilians should not have such weapons because they are massive force mulitpliers which require the mobilization of an entire city police force, and which cannot be achieved before psycho schizo shooters are able to kill dozens of civilians. That qualifies as a problem.

As long as Boehner can keep control of the US House, and as long as he and his teammates still fear the NRA, it is unlikely there will be an AWB passed by both houses of Congress during the next 2 years.

But if Boehner loses control of the US House in 2014, and is turned out of his seat by the voters, then you can also expect another federal AWB. If you are fond of combat rifles, this may prevent you from adding to your stash or anyone else from buying a new one.

There is a chance the USSC would overrule an AWB as unconstitutional. There is also a chance they would not. Heller protects all handguns and also shotguns as long as they are not sawed off. But there is no mention in it of AW's.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

Ergo the next 2 years should not be very different than the last 4 were.

But after that it could get very interesting.

The Red team already knows by now that they are out of touch.

Question is will they blow it again even worse in 2014?!

 

[hottarod]

Not sure which side I hate worse.

 

[CallSignShoobeeFMFPac]

Not sure which side I hate worse.

This last election on Nov 6 2012 you just had to ask yourself did you want more tax cuts for the rich and more oil drilling everywhere?

Or did you want middle class tax cuts with the rich paying more of their fair share, which they have not done since Reagan?

Easy question. Just look on your pay stub and see if you are over $250K taxable for the year.

Not even rocket science or calculus.

 

[shootnpoot]

What I want is less spending scoobee..
more oil drilling for us not the chinese ..
don't raise taxes on anybody ..
secure the damned border
quit dicking around with the muslim brotherhood
unleash the power of capitalism to create jobs
get rid of the damned albatross that is obamacare ..

and finally some accountability from this administration on Fand Fa nd benghazi ..

 

[edward]

why does everyone want to raise taxes on the rich????? first off they own the business, so if you tax them more they will have less to invest in their company with, or will pass it along to consumers (that is us). i just cant get my head around people hating the rich. if you tax the rich to much why would they want to work. the owner of the company i have worked for the last 15 years has done everything he could to keep the company going, he paid fair and when the company lost money for 3 years strait he took money out of his personal bank account tho keep the company going and taking jobs at a loss to keep everyone working. so i have a lot of respect for him. the usa has the highest corporate tax rate in the world, and when a company moves overseas, some cant understand why, they want to punish the company for moving part of production overseas, so what do you think they are going to do with the rest. how about lower the taxes so they want to stay. i think people are so stupid because they want to tax big oil, do people not realize the taxes are passed in the cost of gas. the government makes more off a gallon of gas that the big bad oil company's do.

soobee think about this, we do not drill our own oil, we pay the middle east for it, don't forget that they hate us, i don't like buying stuff from enemys and giving them my money

 

[edward]

i really ment for this to be about guns laws not taxes

 

[CallSignShoobeeFMFPac]

i really ment for this to be about guns laws not taxes

The guns part will be interesting this time around.

Handguns are safe thanks to the Heller decision, the US Supreme Court could not have been any plainer. This ruling will become Scalia's legacy on the 2nd Amendment.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

Combat guns in semi automatic are not covered in it however. That will take another ruling, if an AWB is passed by both houses and signed by the POTUS.

Unless Boehner loses his speaker job in the midterm elections of 2014 I can't see this passing the US House however. Boehner is well funded by the NRA.

 

[CallSignShoobeeFMFPac]

why does everyone want to raise taxes on the rich????? first off they own the business, so if you tax them more they will have less to invest in their company with, or will pass it along to consumers (that is us). i just cant get my head around people hating the rich. if you tax the rich to much why would they want to work. the owner of the company i have worked for the last 15 years has done everything he could to keep the company going, he paid fair and when the company lost money for 3 years strait he took money out of his personal bank account tho keep the company going and taking jobs at a loss to keep everyone working. so i have a lot of respect for him. the usa has the highest corporate tax rate in the world, and when a company moves overseas, some cant understand why, they want to punish the company for moving part of production overseas, so what do you think they are going to do with the rest. how about lower the taxes so they want to stay. i think people are so stupid because they want to tax big oil, do people not realize the taxes are passed in the cost of gas. the government makes more off a gallon of gas that the big bad oil company's do.

soobee think about this, we do not drill our own oil, we pay the middle east for it, don't forget that they hate us, i don't like buying stuff from enemys and giving them my money

Economic studies indicate that the rich have not been paying a fair share of tax since the Reagan tax cuts. Take Romney for example -- 14% tax on $20 million taxable income in 2010 and on $10 million in 2011.

Got any more questions?

 

[CallSignShoobeeFMFPac]

What I want is less spending scoobee..
more oil drilling for us not the chinese ..
don't raise taxes on anybody ..
secure the damned border
quit dicking around with the muslim brotherhood
unleash the power of capitalism to create jobs
get rid of the damned albatross that is obamacare ..

and finally some accountability from this administration on Fand Fa nd benghazi ..

Did you get all that from the fat froggie on right wing radio?

 

[LunaticFringeInc]

I think if your not a reloader you might want to seruiously consider being one and stock up on primers and powder. I havent seen a mad rush on ammo yet but I am sure that slowly but surely it will get much harder to find what your looking for and your going to pay more for it when you do.

Im seeing things like 45 ACP, 9mm, 223 and 308 in short supply at the moment.

BTW...good post by Shootnpoot and edward! Your spot on!!!

 

[grumpy_old_man]

not quite the outcome i wanted, but i guess the republicans have the house so it is not like the first two years of obama when we could not stop anything. but i digress, anyhow i stopped at dicks today just to see if ammo was all gone, and we had another ammo shortage starting, and i was surprised that they were well stocked. but it seems like 308 is still hard to get in surplus and steel cased online. so what do you guys going to think our future is for 4 years, i know i have a little advantage because i cast and reload everything. but i would love to be able to buy surplus and steel ammo in quantity online again someday.

The next four years? You want my opinion really? Okay, here goes, and its pretty ugly for the middle class.

Unemployment will continue to rise (in real terms of "people having a job with a living wage"), and on the 2A front, the UN Arms Treaty will go through some time in the first half of '13, but Harry Reid will sit on it (not enough votes to pass). That won't matter though - until the Senate weighs in it will be treated as a force of law in the U.S. and will excuse a number of EO.

On the bright side, no black choppers, no midnight gun raids, no disappearances of dissidents, no concentration camps, the worst of the scare stuff really won't happen - but there will be a new set of restrictions on firearm related imports is my guess. Maybe just something that jacks up the cost. Kiss the cheap steel case Russian ammo goodbye, as well as AK parts kits. Will there be some kind of restriction on imported standard cap magazines? Maybe, but that's just a guess. Eventually there will probably be restrictions on homebrew guns and reloading ammo (you sir are a manufacturer in the eyes of the UN and the treaty very much IS about manufacturing guns and ammo) - but not for a while is my guess, maybe not 'til the end of the current regime with the usual flurry of outgoing EO's.

There will also (obviously) be a push for a new AWB. Right now everyone in the gun grab movement is waiting for the next massacre before they launch their attack on gunowner's rights. It is pretty much inevitable that there WILL be more massacres, in that the US does a very poor job of "psychopath control". Not surprising, since one of the big determinants of competence classically was whether or not a person could hold a job and take care of themselves. In a nanny state, that sort of determinant is not feasible, as it is the assumption of the ruling class that the ruled can't take care of themselves.

Will there be Supreme Court appointments? If so, kiss Heller and McDonald goodbye. The left regards those as 21st century equivalents of Dredd Scott and would love to reverse them.

So, how do you approach the next four years, if I am right? If you have a job, pray that you will keep it. A lot of us won't. I cancelled all plans for buying a home in my adopted part of the country the night of the election. Since my job in the "Obamacare" economy is now insecure (no chance at a repeal now, and the extra costs will drive a lot of marginal businesses over the edge, or force them to downsize staff) I will have to a. save my $$ for an emergency and b. be ready to move to wherever I CAN find a job. Why all the writing about economics in a gun forum? Because if you're broke it will affect whether or not you can own guns, and even if you already DO own them, it will change what you can do with them. That .338 Lapua status gun with the Leupold scope will be a whole lot less practical than a CZ .22LR with a Nikon that can put food on the table and provide cheap target practice.

On the bright side, if you do lose your job, you can always sell off part of your gun collection to stay afloat. I did that once before and I can and will do it again to support my family (hurts like heck though). I would suggest some serious soul searching as to ways to lighten your load if you do need to pull up stakes to find a new job. Sort of like the appalling "what if I only had 4 guns" things that the gun rags always used to run, only now its for real. My beloved original pre-'41 Colt SAA went by the wayside that way, but it paid the rent for longer than you might believe.

Valeo ("Be Strong"), even in the darkest times of the next 4 years we can survive, and it is our duty to our families to do exactly that. However few will prosper these coming four years.

Hope I'm wrong, but you asked.
Grumpy

 

[breckenridge]

I am going to go out on a limb here..

I don't think that either of the options that were available this time around are the best. We're all obviously on this forum because we like our firearms. I live in NY, so I guess I've been used to the AWB for a while now. I do not agree with it.

BUT, unless you are all rich, I'd rather see a squared up tax code on those who are making the big bucks in exchange for me to own 10rd vs 30rd mags.

Don't get me wrong, that is a stupid and arbitrary law, but I'd rather give up the 30rd mags than a rate on my taxes, be it home ownership benefits or what. I know those aren't related but that's how our bipartisan government bundles crap together.

So there you have my fence-riding opinion, but damn, no side was a good option,

 

[grumpy_old_man]

I am going to go out on a limb here..

I don't think that either of the options that were available this time around are the best. We're all obviously on this forum because we like our firearms. I live in NY, so I guess I've been used to the AWB for a while now. I do not agree with it.

BUT, unless you are all rich, I'd rather see a squared up tax code on those who are making the big bucks in exchange for me to own 10rd vs 30rd mags.

Don't get me wrong, that is a stupid and arbitrary law, but I'd rather give up the 30rd mags than a rate on my taxes, be it home ownership benefits or what. I know those aren't related but that's how our bipartisan government bundles crap together.

So there you have my fence-riding opinion, but damn, no side was a good option,

Hi Breckenridge;

Don't take this the wrong way, but I honestly think you were looking at the lousy choice we had a little off. Not going to refight the election, since a. there's no point and b. I didn't like the choices either, but there are some nits I would like to pick in good faith. I honestly don't see this as "incumbent = good economy/bad gun laws but challenger = bad economy/good gun laws". Here's why:

1. Fairness in the tax code will have no effect on the economic disaster that is beginning to be felt now. While taxes will be going up next year (and look out for the Alternative Minimum Tax!), the QE1, QE2, and QE infinity monetization of the debt will continue to chip away at the value of our remaining money. Not Weimar hyper-inflation, but a cumulative loss of perhaps half of our purchasing power over the 8 years we must now endure. The "Affordable Health Act" has badly eroded my own work related health care due to the increases in THEIR costs (no I did not have a gold plated plan). Will this result in downsizing? I fear it will.

There, rant over.
Now on to the gun stuff:

2. If you really want 30 round mags, get them legally now if you reside in a place where you can.

I don't think standard cap mags are in any more or less danger than with Romney as president. I suspect Romney would have sold us down the river for a political deal in which he gained political capital, whereas what we now have will burn political capital to achieve the same end.

3. For my part, I have trouble caring about 30 rounders that much - I already have plenty, including rebuild kits for springs and such, and even the most draconian ban would still leave me in possession of them. Plus, the 10 shots in an M1A fed by stripper clips is "good enough" though I still prefer my 20 round GI surplus boxes. Oops got plenty 'o those too....

Anyway, in my view (which I sincerely hope to be wrong) we are now going to lose a large portion of our purchasing power ("become poorer") due to the policies started by the previous administration and continued enthusiastically by this one, as well as suffer the ravages of increased levels of unemployment due to laws set to take effect in 2013 and 2014. In terms of gun ownership, this means we all need to learn to "think small and cheap" since that will be all most of us can afford.

And yes, I really do hope I am wrong.
All the best,
Grumpy

 

[breckenridge]

Grumpy, I think you've said it well. I was only making a generalizing statement since I see a lot of gun law only swayed chat in firearms friendly places. Me personally, I could care less about 30 round mags, though some 20s would be nice in NY :lol: But in all seriousness, none of those things are important enough for me to reevaluate my living situation, I see it as an inconvenience and a nice-to-have of another state. Firearm ownership in general is what matters to me.

The fiscal situation is a real problem, and the election has hit my company pretty hard in the stock market and its future plans for growth, and I am hoping the best for all of us.

 

[grumpy_old_man]

Grumpy, I think you've said it well. I was only making a generalizing statement since I see a lot of gun law only swayed chat in firearms friendly places. Me personally, I could care less about 30 round mags, though some 20s would be nice in NY :lol: But in all seriousness, none of those things are important enough for me to reevaluate my living situation, I see it as an inconvenience and a nice-to-have of another state. Firearm ownership in general is what matters to me.

The fiscal situation is a real problem, and the election has hit my company pretty hard in the stock market and its future plans for growth, and I am hoping the best for all of us.

In NY, my understanding is that preban mags are okay. Thus, if you want 20's for AR, AK, Mini, or M1A, they DO exist. US made surplus Thompson and carbine mags are all 1950's or earlier to the best of my knowledge. I would check to be sure before buying if I lived in a restrictive state. While they are only 8 shooters, every single one of my P1 mags is NSN marked, and dated. Don't know how many other mag types that applies to, but if they ever go less than 10 (yes, the gungrabbers would probably like to set the bar at 5, as in NYC) it could prove useful when proving that yes indeed this IS preban.

I had 20's back before the AWB push in the late '80's for each and every one of the common guns I listed above (friend of mine ran a police supply store so it helped on the Ruger white box mags - but there really are plenty of 'em out there). 'Bout the only thing you'll be short on will be the new BX25 - VERY highly recommended if its legal where you are. One advantage for Kali is that it is a mag that can be taken down into components for legality (at least that is how I understand it to work - people out there buy 'parts kits' then only assemble them outside the state on 'gun holidays' in freer parts of the country). Not sure if that is how it works in NY though (is there constructive possession under NY law?).

Given the current situation, it should be okay to pick up magazines and store them out of state since the laws are all based on jurisdiction (area of the law) as well as 'personality of the law' (in which different laws affect different types of people, as with the "only ones" laws where police are exempt from gun laws). That way if you DO move to a freer state you can have your things. Or, like myself, if there is a chance you will move to a less free state, you can store them where they're legal until you can recover them.

For me that is the worst part of a new ban - it will make it tricky if I do have to move to someplace more restrictive following the jobs. Particularly if I have to leave the country for a while following the jobs, WHERE I store things becomes very important since I can't guarantee buying replacements if I just sell things.

My retirement plan has been hosed a couple of times now. Planning on working until they shovel dirt on the box (with one last piece in there so someone really will have to pry it from my cold dead fingers!). Probably won't be at the same place though - the fallout from the "Affordable Health Care" act has a significant chance of costing me my job. It will certainly cost me some of my little remaining prosperity, so I hoped to see a repeal effort. That hope is dashed now.

Main disappointment with the election was that I saw it as a chance to reverse the economic direction and replace a dedicated antigunner who has bided his time with someone who can't be trusted - but if watched may have been kept from too much villainy on the 2A front. Now with the pending small arms treaty, if I were a handloader I would be VERY worried. Or someone who 'kit builds' AK's. How will you prove that the AK you built up from parts predates any UN perfidy? If the economics of your shooting is built on reloading, what will you do should you need a megabuck manufacturers license since the small arms treaty really is focused on manufacturing controls for arms and ammo.

All the best,
Grumpy

 

[Mosinka]

Not sure which side I hate worse.

That's me. I hate 'em both. As for .308 ammo, we'd have a glut of it if we could get both of these two stupid major parties to quit making wars all over the place.

 

[gaweidert]

This last election on Nov 6 2012 you just had to ask yourself did you want more tax cuts for the rich and more oil drilling everywhere?

Or did you want middle class tax cuts with the rich paying more of their fair share, which they have not done since Reagan?

Easy question. Just look on your pay stub and see if you are over $250K taxable for the year.

Not even rocket science or calculus.

You have been drinking the cool aid far too long. Right now the top 1% of wage earners pay 40% of the federal income tax collected. What level would you like them to pay?

By the time you get to the top 10% they are paying over 80%. Again, what level would you like them to pay?

The bottom 50% of wage earners pay no income tax at all.

We have a government that is totally out of control and in a few years tax rates are not going to be important at all. We will be a ruined hulk of a country.

Even our America hating, class warfare advocate president is now saying that the demon inspired Bush era tax cuts seem to have effected the middle class most of all. In fact he is now in favor of retaining them. The fact of the matter is that he spends like a drunken sailor and is spending this country into ruin faster than any president in our history. Once we are ruined as a nation he will feel that he has accomplished his goal.

What is happening is that I no longer contribute to any charities. I simply refer them the Barrack Hussein Obama as he seems to be the source of all our money and cell phones too.

Right now I am looking at having another $3,000 or so taken from my pay next year. So as far as I am concerned, screw the so called poor. If they want to advance their state in life let them get a job. I haven't had a raise in 10 years and make less that I was making 14 years ago.

As to the wealthy, by the standards of most of the world there are no poor people in America. Even the so called poor on welfare have and equivalent income of $69,000 per year. I wouldn't mind making that much. But I have spent the last 53 years of my life working to earn my money.

What do you do for a living?

I suppose that you would favor the government confiscating our 401(k)'s now too. It's not fair that I saved some of my money while the FSA (Free Stuff Army) people did nothing to secure their future.

I suggest that everybody who supports BHO immediately donate all their wealth to the federal government to help it out of it's financial crisis. Geroge Soros should set the example.

If you want a fair income tax, make it a flat rate for everybody. No deductions for anything. Just simplifying the paperwork wold allow us to almost eliminate the IRS.

And people on welfare more than 2 years should not be allowed to vote. Right now we are ruled by a welfare ruling class. The contribute nothing and take almost everything.

Here is a quote from Alexis De Toqueville to ponder over:

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.

 

[breckenridge]

gaweidert, I understand where you're going with your last two paragraphs, but I'm curious as to how you're getting 69k for people on welfare?

I agree with limitations on social welfare to those who are deserving and I understand that the system is being used by many. However, I also know some people who are deserving and depend on it, and would hate to see them shortchanged by the freeloaders.

For the record, I am well into the "I'm contributing" bucket of wage earners.