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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would like to see videos of non-standard rifles (AR-15) being used in carbine matches.

Examples:










https://www.full30.com/video/f33231c7bbff5febfcc8d6d1ff6d9f44

I would like to see an m1 carbine in a match.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

 
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I haven't used my AR in a 3 gun match in several years, probably need to fix that..

I rotate thru my Carbines, Mini 14, Kel-Tec SU16, AR, Fight Lite SCR , Ruger PCC .40.

I also rotate thru my Pistols shooting my various 4 Glocks.

I also rotate thru my 3 Shotguns.

The Glocks all work essentially the same so no big deal there. Still grip, sight alignment, and trigger control can be dry fire practiced in my easy chair at night,,, and I do.

The Rifles mostly use the same mags except the PCC which uses the same mags as 2 of the Glocks and the Mini 14 which uses it's own mags and I have to always practice inserting them before the match as they go in different.

With the Shotguns 2 M500's run exactly the same way but hold different amounts of ammo in the mags. The Browning A5 is fastest of all, and essentially runs close to the pump guns. So not much change over there.

Dry Practice with all these guns helps alot.

I feel the only way to truly stay proficient is by changing guns monthly.

What you are essentially training for is the eventual confrontation that may happen at any time. You probably won't have your favorite gun with you, and may have to use whatever you can pickup if you are lucky enough to even get that chance.

Point is everyone really needs to be proficient with as many firearms types as possible. Learning the Idiosyncrasies of different weapons will also help you when you buy a new gun. You'll already know which ones you don't like or are a PITB to run or shoot accurately.

Can you run a 1911?,, how about a Sig P210? or a CZ 75 or a Glock or M&P? How about a Revolver like a S&W 642 or a Single Action Ruger Super Blackhawk?.

Can you run a Levergun effectively in a fight? How about a Bolt Gun?

Can you effectively manage the ammo you are stuck with?

All these things are questions you should answer for yourself long before you need to.

There's a saying,,, "Any gun will do, If you will do!"

So,,, Will you do? Or will you suck? Only one side of that coin actually works !

Randy
 
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if you dont OWN lots of different types of gun, why would you need to know how to run them? Do you believe in the 007bs, one will drop into your hand just as you need it? I have only one longarm, an AR, with a carrying handle. i only have 3 handguns and all are SA cocked and locked. I dont want to waste range time and ammo on learning others, maintaining skill with them, etc.

When you're under lethal stress, that can really mess you out. In one of his stakeouts, Jim Cirillo shot a guy with 00 Buck, center chest, from about 10 ft and the guy turned and ran. Jim was so flabbergasted at this turn of events that he tried to shoot the guy without first working the action. If such a veteran of gunfights can screw up, so can you. Dont risk it. There's no reason to do so.
 

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if you dont OWN lots of different types of gun, why would you need to know how to run them? Do you believe in the 007bs, one will drop into your hand just as you need it? I have only one longarm, an AR, with a carrying handle. i only have 3 handguns and all are SA cocked and locked. I dont want to waste range time and ammo on learning others, maintaining skill with them, etc.

When you're under lethal stress, that can really mess you out. In one of his stakeouts, Jim Cirillo shot a guy with 00 Buck, center chest, from about 10 ft and the guy turned and ran. Jim was so flabbergasted at this turn of events that he tried to shoot the guy without first working the action. If such a veteran of gunfights can screw up, so can you. Dont risk it. There's no reason to do so.
So do you carry your AR everywhere you go? What happens if you are at the local Walmart and you don't have your AR and the only thing laying on the floor is a Mini 14 or an AK or a Glock,,, or God forbid a Sig. or maybe a bottle of Gator-aid!

Since You have no familiarity with these weapons I guess you could pick it up and hope it shoots by just pulling the trigger cuz that's all you've got to work with. If it is jammed or low on Ammo what are you going to do? What if the mag is laying on the floor next to it. And all of this is if you are lucky enough to find a gun or something handy to throw..

Can you shoot a slingshot" I have one in my Jacket pocket and I can hit you in the head with a 1/2 ball every time inside of 50 feet.

How about throwing an axe or hammer or can of Beans or Dog Food. After all this is Walmart and there are a variety of weapons just laying around waiting to be put to good use.

There's a saying,,, "Any Gun will Do, If you will do!" Oh I already said that!

Here's a little broader concept to work with,,,

It's not how well you do what you KNOW how to do,

It's how well you do,,, WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO!!!

Randy
 

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Now I gotta buy more guns to practice with just in case? Maybe I should buy a phaser and a plasma rifle too. But could just stay outta the Walmart. Though I would really like a sturmgewehr. But on a serious note I have used my .45 acp pcc’s in several ipsc and zombie matches and had a ball. No videos though.
 

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Please don't quote this toy mall ninja. Or lousesh!t, or freesh!t. Remember, children are to be seen and not heard.......
 
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I’ve seen a couple of people try and run Mini-14’s in 3-Gun and they’ve gotten worked over really hard.

If you have a decent skill level you might do ok in bay stages at a local club level match without a deep talent pool because all you need is two hits anywhere anywhere on paper.

However, the first long range stage where you have to burn a mag on close range paper and then go to steel out to 500 meters you’re going to be hosed.

There’s a reason why AR variants are the vast majority of you see in the competitive shooting sports.
 

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I've seen a couple of people try and run Mini-14's in 3-Gun and they've gotten worked over really hard.

If you have a decent skill level you might do ok in bay stages at a local club level match without a deep talent pool because all you need is two hits anywhere anywhere on paper.

However, the first long range stage where you have to burn a mag on close range paper and then go to steel out to 500 meters you're going to be hosed.

There's a reason why AR variants are the vast majority of you see in the competitive shooting sports.
Yeah,,, I can consistently hit targets out to 300 yards with mine with a Red Dot Sight with a 1-6X scope installed I could go 500 easy. But the events i go to like Piru CA aren't shooting at 500 yards. Piru draws shooters from all of LA and the surrounding area so the "talent pool" is pretty deep.

Plus that, I don't really give a ship about where I place as long as I don't suck too bad. I can't keep up running around with 25 year old's like I used to, but I still do pretty good against most of them. Unless they have excellent skills, or are Recent X Mil (which most don't) I can compete head to head with them.

A couple of years ago I made the final out of 60 guys at a man on man shoot off at Front Sight. I got beat by .2 seconds,,, by a 27 year old Ex Scout Sniper fresh back from Afg. I was 68!

I got more mileage for 2nd place than he got by winning. I shot my Mini 14. he had a $2500 Daniel Defense AR.

It all depends on what your idea of winning is? Seldom is there any money up for grabs,,, and I can come right up to speed if there was!

Any gun will do,,, if you will do!

Randy
 
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Yeah,,, I can consistently hit targets out to 300 yards with mine with a Red Dot Sight with a 1-6X scope installed I could go 500 easy. But the events i go to like Piru CA aren't shooting at 500 yards. Piru draws shooters from all of LA and the surrounding area so the "talent pool" is pretty deep.

Plus that, I don't really give a ship about where I place as long as I don't suck too bad. I can't keep up running around with 25 year old's like I used to, but I still do pretty good against most of them. Unless they have excellent skills, or are Recent X Mil (which most don't) I can compete head to head with them.

A couple of years ago I made the final out of 60 guys at a man on man shoot off at Front Sight. I got beat by .2 seconds,,, by a 27 year old Ex Scout Sniper fresh back from Afg. I was 68!

I got more mileage for 2nd place than he got by winning. I shot my Mini 14. he had a $2500 Daniel Defense AR.

It all depends on what your idea of winning is? Seldom is there any money up for grabs,,, and I can come right up to speed if there was!

Any gun will do,,, if you will do!

Randy
Can you "hit targets" with one out to 500?

Sure.

Are you going one for one on steel out to 500 on the clock with a barrel that's already cooking from a close range mag dump and then rolling a spinner at 200?

Nope.
 

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Can you "hit targets" with one out to 500?

Sure.

Are you going one for one on steel out to 500 on the clock with a barrel that's already cooking from a close range mag dump and then rolling a spinner at 200?

Nope.
Well,,, I guess we''d just have to see if I could do it,,, or not.

What YOU think about my skills and equipment is irrelevant. You have never seen me, let alone seen me shoot.

Your entire opinion is based on internet BS!

Oh, and I seriously doubt YOU could go 1 for 1 on 5, 500 yard targets.

Let's see a pic of your gun?
Which matches do you go to?
How deep is the talent pool there?
Where do you place at those matches?

And most importantly HOW OLD ARE YOU?

Randy
 
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Well,,, I guess we''d just have to see if I could do it,,, or not.

What YOU think about my skills and equipment is irrelevant. You have never seen me, let alone seen me shoot.

Your entire opinion is based on internet BS!

Oh, and I seriously doubt YOU could go 1 for 1 on 5, 500 yard targets.

Let's see a pic of your gun?
Which matches do you go to?
How deep is the talent pool there?
Where do you place at those matches?

And most importantly HOW OLD ARE YOU?

Randy
I'm mid-40's.

My entire opinion is based upon being an active competitor on the regional/national level, a couple of decades of competitive shooting experience, having done this professionally as a military/LE contract trainer both domestically and overseas and as a military contractor.

Currently I shoot 3-Gun and USPSA heavily, IDPA and PRS occasionally and just returned from the USPSA National Championships for multigun and PCC. Over the years I've picked up my fair share of wins.

One for one on steel at speed in a match setting on an array like that isn't terribly difficult for anyone who knows what their dope is, and has been shooting actively for a couple of years.

As far as the other questions... This is my usual Tac-Ops stick, but I'll run it in Open as well. Faxon 18" Gunner with Rifle gas, lightweight JP internals, Kahles K16i, etc. Bay stage gun for matches inside 300 yards is roughly the same but a P/W 14.5 and carbon fiber furniture.

Locally, we've got a lot of talent between GM's and sponsored shooters. I have to have a disaster if I'm outside of the top 3. I do fairly well at majors.

What matches or venues do you participate in regularly?
 

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I'm not in your league and I'm not Professional. I just shoot for fun. I'm 70 years old. You'd be one of the ones I'd run from. Have I seen you on TV? Are you Retired? Big money in "contracting." They didn't have that 40 years ago when I was 30,,, and you were just born?.

I shoot at my Local Clubs and occasionally at the Piru CA 3 Gun and PCC events which used to be home of USPSA until they got fed up with CA BS and moved it all back east. I can't run with the kids out there, but I do better at the smaller shoots.

Dope? 200 yard zero, +12" at 300 + 30" at 400 + 60" at 500 Kind of far for a Red Dot Sight, but fairly easy with a scope. I have a 4 3/4" 5 shot group on the 500 M Pink Ram at Piru with my Ruger Scout. +3.1 mils on that one.

This gun might be able to make repeated 500 yard shots with a hot barrel.


Randy
 

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You do business with what ya got. Example of Marines versus MMA:


One mind, many weapons. I practice with what I have. Right now I have been practicing shotgun a lot. Learned to reload double 0h for it. FNH SLP. Works great.
 

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We should all be celebrating each others experiences and learning from those. Mr Ontos just comes across a bit abrasive due to the braggadocio's of a competitor. We are all on the same side of patriots who embrace the second amendment and the rest of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.
I am an expert shot on wild game without using all the gimmicks of range finding, or a 5k scope that goes from 1-30x or whatever. I have taken several quadrupeds on the run and that is a true marksman in my very humble opinion.
That's cool and all, but the question was about non-ARs in a competitive setting.

Questions were asked about how my opinion on the subject was formed and I answered them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Actually no question was asked by the OP.

I was just using this thread as a way to collect video of rifle matches that were not AR's.

It was not meant to be anything more.

I doubt any reasonable person thinks the AR does not reign supreme in a match setting, I was just looking for data out of curiosity.

InRange does a lot of non traditional 2 gun matches just to see what it was like to say run a match with a ww1 rifle, a lever action etc.
 

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Yeah I've been trying to get a hold of them but they are essentially closed right now.

I need a Monte Carlo Buttstock for mine, and I am hoping they have done some mods to the trigger as mine has no wall, and it is completely unpredictable as to when the shot will break. There is no point where you can tell that it is about to go off and apply some more pressure to get it to let off the same way each time. You just pull until it goes off. Would kill for a decent 2 stage or one with no creep.

Randy
 
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